What can a Ford Dealer do?

[gbvetracer]

Our car is CLEARLY not right. Something is wrong with it. Several tuning experts have agreed that the dyno results in the boost and load are NOT normal. We have dips and a wavy line where its supposed to be smooth and linear. Also, the max boost is 2 to 3 lbs less then all the other FGT's we seen. NOW, can a dealer see similar problems in the boost and the load with a scan tool? How can they effectively work on these cars without a dyno? The car is new with 300 miles on it, so Ford should take care of us, right?

 

[B O N Y]

Our car is CLEARLY not right. Something is wrong with it. Several tuning experts have agreed that the dyno results in the boost and load are NOT normal. We have dips and a wavy line where its supposed to be smooth and linear. Also, the max boost is 2 to 3 lbs less then all the other FGT's we seen. NOW, can a dealer see similar problems in the boost and the load with a scan tool? How can they effectively work on these cars without a dyno? The car is new with 300 miles on it, so Ford should take care of us, right?

Please post your dyno runs... let our experts weigh in.

 

[freeflyer]

I'd still like to see the logs...

 

[gbvetracer]

not sure how to post the logs..

Thanks guys... problem is I cant seem to post the graphs, and im not sure about the logs... maybe I should ask the tuner to try.... by "logs" I think you mean all the other data like "load" and that other stuff.... he has that all... I will ask him...

 

[gbvetracer]

graph upload..

heres what I keep getting when I try to upload

" Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 15728640 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 4096 bytes) in /home/fordgt/public_html/forums/includes/class_image.php on line 1417

 

[Fubar]

File may be to big. reduce the image size.

 

[B O N Y]

Glenn,
You need to peel the onion and reveal what the issues are. Ford has been responsive in settling issues, but for whatever reason you are not disclosing the information. This is not fair to Ford, or the other forum members. Please, explain what mods you have done, lets see if we can help you. Or, frankly, lets shut down threads. Sorry to be so blunt.
Cheers,
daniel
moderator

 

[Kingman]

...could the dips and peaks be attributable to an unsupported throttle body duct compressing?

 

[nota4re]

Glenn,

With all due respect, do you have ANY evidence that your car is any different than any other GT? To the best of my knowledge, you've never shared any definitive "proof" that your car is different from any other GT. In addition, you have never metioned ANY driveability issues, problems or anomolies.

All we have from you is some instrumented data that has some inconsistencies in it and a shop that is telling you that these inconsistencies shouldn't be there. Let's agree that the data is of some concern. The real question (and I have asked it before), is it the collection method or the car itself? Collect the same data the same way on another GT - and I'm betting you get the same results. What's the conclusion then?

If that's not possible because it places a burden on another GT owner, why not arrange a dyno session for the same day and time as another owner. What if your car put down the same HP/TQ as another GT? Would you still think there's a problem?

Again, I started by saying "with all due respect", and I mean that. My blunt assessment - based solely on what you've provided in the multiple threads you've started on this same topic, is that there IS NO PROBLEM. I really hope that I am right and if I am wrong - I'm not sure there's anything that you've provided (so far) that would lead to another conclusion.

 

[freeflyer]

logs

By logs, I mean the data of various sensors while doing your dyno pull. I'd like to see boost/vacuum, MAF counts or voltage, TPS voltage or %, Load, RPM, IAT, fuel injector pulse width. Your tuner should have this....

 

[SteveA]

By logs, I mean the data of various sensors while doing your dyno pull. I'd like to see boost/vacuum, MAF counts or voltage, TPS voltage or %, Load, RPM, IAT, fuel injector pulse width. Your tuner should have this....

My lack of boost/HP issues were only fixed when Jack at MMP read the data from the cars computer being fed to the fuel pumps.

 

[Musclecar67]

If you want to reduce the size of the graph do this. open the graph in paint then click on IMAGE then click on STRETCH / SKEW in the STRETCH boxes type in %50 on both the horizontal and vertical spaces and hit ok if it is still to big repeat the process except you want to reduce it using a smaller percentage since it will reduce the image from its current "smaller" status. then SAVE AS Graph2 so you have the original. ~ Rob

 

[gbvetracer]

Entire story here...

ok here goes. First off with the car TOTALLY stock and with 50 miles on it, we did a few pulls. The boost line of the dynojet showed some dips and waves in it, and the max boost only hit 10 lbs. Several other stock GT's that I have dyno's on, made 12 lbs. BUT, the issue according to my tuner, was also about the dips in the line. He said this was NOT right, and that the line should be smooth and linear. This ALSO was verified in the other stock GT's that we compared to... NOW, about the mods. I wish we stopped at that point and took the car to a dealer and told them to fix it... but we didnt. We did all the usual bolt on mods; Accufab exhaust, throttle body, mafia, sct tuner, and tried several different pulleys. Oh and also did the trans cooler and the shifter. After all the bolts ons, the boost did the exact same thing with the dips...but DID increase some in max boost, just NOT as much as the other cars with the same pulleys. Example; with the Hennessey pulley, we only made 13-14, where others made 17. SO, at this point we decided to just pay a shop to fix the car instead of trusting it to a local Ford dealer that maybe never worked on a FGT. After several trips and trying several things, we STILL dont have it fixed. We made sure the belt wasnt slipping, the bypass valve wasnt leaking, and even swapped blowers with Bony's and STILL no change in boost problems. Then we pulled the intake/intercooler and replaced ALL the gaskets. Then pulled valve covers, per Ford racing Tech support, and still found NO problems. Thats the WHOLE story. Im sorry I cant upload the darn dyno stuff, I need to get my tuner to try... he has EVERYTHING logged from the car. Hes a super nice guy and a great tuner/mechanic. His name is Jeff Wightman, Shadowman has talked to him in great length all about the car, and Bill even has the dyno stuff... Thank you guys VERY much for trying to help me with this. This car went from being a dream come true, to a nightmare with trying to get it fixed...

 

[nota4re]

Man oh man, Glenn, you and I are on two different planets. I appreciate your candor and description but there's not a single piece of info that would sway me to believe that there is a problem....

Several other stock GT's that I have dyno's on, made 12 lbs.

Maybe, but none of these cars were tested in the same shop as you and with the same equipment and connection points... so it is a meaningless comparison.

BUT, the issue according to my tuner, was also about the dips in the line.

Agreed. BUT it is WAY more probable - especially at this point, that it is the data collection itself that is BAD and NOT the car.... why won't you even consider this???? Especially when you have NO tangible symptoms.

This ALSO was verified in the other stock GT's that we compared to...

Again, meaningless - you never compared to another GT at the same shop. Still points to faulty data collection.

just NOT as much as the other cars with the same pulleys. Example; with the Hennessey pulley, we only made 13-14, where others made 17.

Bad data collection by your shop.... still a good explanation.

After several trips and trying several things, we STILL dont have it fixed. We made sure the belt wasnt slipping, the bypass valve wasnt leaking, and even swapped blowers with Bony's and STILL no change in boost problems. Then we pulled the intake/intercooler and replaced ALL the gaskets. Then pulled valve covers, per Ford racing Tech support, and still found NO problems.

No shit. The problem is in the data collection, the car is fine.....

GLENN - WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am a very objective person (just ask me). Nothing you have said in ANY of your threads has suggested there's a problem with the car. NOTHING! NOTHING! NOTHING!

I give up.

 

[gbvetracer]

WOW... nice post.... really nice....

Ok... great so basically the ONLY thing you have to say is that the shop where the car was tested is the problem? BAD DATA..... Bad dyno, bad equipment, bad tuner.... ok... I gotchya. So let me ask you this sir; if this shop that did this testing was say at a shop YOU knew was reputable and the tuner there had a POPULAR name like say John Hennessey, would you STILL insist that until I take the car to another shop, the WHOLE problem could be with the dyno and getting bad data? Im NOT saying this isnt a possibility, just a really NASTY, rotten thing to acuse a shop of. This shop and tuner LIVES on his dyno ALL DAY, EVERYDAY!!!! HE looks as hundreds of other cars boost curves and data ALL DAY LONG... but ok, maybe for some unknown reason, EVERYTIME he did pulls on my car, he got bad data ?

 

[gbvetracer]

nota4re.......

I hope you realize that I sure as heck would have aleady got a second opinon from pulls at another shop IF THERE WAS ONE AROUND HERE!!!! MY plan is as soon as I put the valve covers back on, to take it to another shop and have it tested. NOW you also realize that just about EVERY shop in the country I have talked to DOESNT monitor boost on their dynos? For some goofy reason, they choose to NOT buy the extra module for their dyno which logs and monitors boost..... MOST guys have NO clue what their boost is doing... all they look at is horsepower... which is amazing...considering the FACT that the key power maker and heart of this engine is the blower sitting on it! ANY problems with the boost will go unnoticed and unseen. If I bought a Whipple for example, it too would NOT make the boost or the power its supposed to make... I just got a pm from another owner who says he went through this EXACT same problem with this car... went to 3 shops until one found the problem! Thanks for all your help and kind words...

 

[gbvetracer]

Data

s RPM x1000 hp *Vac/Boost RPM x1000
0.76 2.20 145.66 5.63 2.20
0.97 2.30 175.60 6.46 2.30
1.19 2.40 192.01 6.57 2.40
1.40 2.50 202.97 6.78 2.50
1.61 2.60 213.64 7.26 2.60
1.81 2.70 226.09 7.63 2.70
2.02 2.80 225.07 7.57 2.80
2.23 2.90 242.35 7.95 2.90
2.43 3.00 254.98 8.14 3.00
2.63 3.10 264.80 8.50 3.10
2.83 3.20 274.65 8.74 3.20
3.03 3.30 280.46 8.68 3.30
3.23 3.40 291.72 8.87 3.40
3.42 3.50 298.86 8.83 3.50
3.63 3.60 302.56 9.35 3.60
3.83 3.70 308.35 9.73 3.70
4.03 3.80 326.70 9.57 3.80
4.23 3.90 334.07 9.70 3.90
4.43 4.00 344.24 9.40 4.00
4.63 4.10 351.05 9.39 4.10
4.83 4.20 359.16 9.74 4.20
5.03 4.30 367.52 10.12 4.30
5.23 4.40 372.50 9.93 4.40
5.43 4.50 389.92 10.12 4.50
5.63 4.60 394.74 9.73 4.60
5.82 4.70 406.06 9.20 4.70
6.02 4.80 411.76 9.15 4.80
6.22 4.90 421.75 9.65 4.90
6.42 5.00 428.88 9.43 5.00
6.62 5.10 439.04 9.24 5.10
6.83 5.20 432.00 9.30 5.20
7.03 5.30 447.61 9.37 5.30
7.24 5.40 456.81 9.26 5.40
7.44 5.50 458.44 9.72 5.50
7.65 5.60 469.40 9.18 5.60
7.86 5.70 475.29 8.78 5.70
8.07 5.80 475.62 9.15 5.80
8.29 5.90 472.69 9.65 5.90
8.51 6.00 481.48 9.55 6.00
8.70 6.10 501.34 9.91 6.10
8.93 6.20 498.02 10.01 6.20
9.16 6.30 494.67 9.51 6.30
9.37 6.40 506.24 9.48 6.40
9.60 6.50 505.80 3.10 6.50
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 9.60 6.50 506.24 10.12 6.50
MIN: 0.76 2.20 145.66 3.10 2.20

 

[gbvetracer]

graph upload..

 

[B O N Y]

It would be great to see another FGT on the same dyno. The power looks low to me. I have sent you my dyno pull with basically the same mods.

 

[freeflyer]

If possible, I'd like to see the other data also.