What can a Ford Dealer do?

[B O N Y]

Short answer:

Without a doing tons of work and spending time and money investigating. You will not be able locate the reason for lower boost pressure than other cars.

And in the end it will be a built tolerance stack up problem.

Meaning - All the parts in a system (engine in this case) separately each part can pass all quality requirements. And fit into the measurement process as a good part.

But when all the parts are assembled into a working, running system it will be slightly different than other systems on one area. But greater in some other measure of performance in a different area.

I know this is not easy to hear when your boost readings are slightly less than others. I feel your pain.
But trust me your car is healthy. With 500 hp at the wheels it is a good strong performer.

This is the reason why other car makers do not place actual numbers on dash gauges. And it is possible to build dash gauges that can be manipulated (cheated)
So you have no real idea what is happening. This not the case W/ the FGT.
A dash gauge can be softened or dampened in a zone so all cars appear to operate the same as others cars. The GT has none of that stuff.

Your car is not flawed.
I have seen cars that only read 10 PSI. max boost
And test @ the wheels lower than your car ..

It is my opinion that if you keep pushing Ford. The answer will be the same.
Your Dyno numbers are good, it is a good strong car.

Glenn!
I asked Alex to review your thread and issue. Alex was the data gathering engineer for SVT Team during the FGT program. I think this journey is coming to an end.
Your Friend,
daniel

 

[Gierkink]

gbvetracer,

Pushing Ford too hard to fix a car you've modified which looks like it might not have a problem (as per the view of many on this thread) could equal voided warantee (due to the mods). In my view warrantee repairs by Ford on a modified car are a privilege not a right. I'd think twice about taking this too far with Ford.

Rob

 

[gbvetracer]

Rob....

The ONLY modification to the car that could be a factor would be the accufab exhaust in place of the stock muffler. As you know, this doesnt add power, just allows the car to run cooler and saves weight. The stock pulley and throttle body are on the car... the accufab was only used in testing as was the pulleys. The car is BRAND NEW. So, im sorry but I have to disagree that "modifications" could be a concern. The ONLY issue that is still nagging me is the boost mystery. The dealer, the factory AND most performance shops cant agree what these cars make as far as boost goes. The indash gauge is not accurate or used for comparison. And any boost number pulled from the dynos at shops are considered "invalid" since there is no "standard" place to tap-in to measure it. Everyone wants to ignore ANY potential issues with boost, and just talk RWHP... yet ironically that TOO is not a valid number since we all know of how easy it is to read numbers that "somehow" are pulled off a dyno using who knows what calibration, mfgr, technique and adjustements.... so utlimately the ONLY true measurement that people will agree on is the performance at the track.... of course that TOO is invalid since most people will claim the driver wasnt competant... so this is really just a total joke at this point... as I said in my previous post; I GIVE UP.

 

[B O N Y]

Glenn,
Reread MR2RACE'S post, he was the data gathering engineer on the SVT that did our gals...
Trust me lots of Ford executives lurk on our site...
Cheers,
daniel

 

[BlackICE]

.... so utlimately the ONLY true measurement that people will agree on is the performance at the track.... of course that TOO is invalid since most people will claim the driver wasnt competant... so this is really just a total joke at this point... as I said in my previous post; I GIVE UP.

A roll on test on a flat track without any wind would give an accurate assessment to the engines output. Something like a 4th or 5th gear roll from 1500 to 6800 would be ideal, but 3rd might be more practical given the speeds and distances involved. Any driver could do this if a safe and suitable track could be found. Finding a track is the hard part. With a datalog of time vs. speed and knowledge of the GT's coefficient of drag and weight, air temps, barometric pressure and humidity a good est. of power output can be calculated.

Or just line up on the track with a "known good GT" and a comparison roll on test side by side. The cars should be very close. No shifting, turning etc. Driver skill is minimized!

 

[gbvetracer]

blackice...

I agree 100% with your testing idea... now all you need to is to get a bunch of guys together to all meet at a place and run. Of course you'll need some parameters, measurements, and criteria... then an electronic timing system of some kind to eliminate human error. The Texas mile seems to be the closest thing I have run into to do this... but I guess the launching of the car there is also important just like at a quarter mile strip.... I always thought top speed hit in the quarter was a good indicator of power a car was making... but gearing would have to be considered.. Why on earth cant someone invent a simple, inexpensive way to measure power a car makes without all the trouble? If a Dyno jet say cost 50.00, then everyone would buy one and have that as the common denominator that all cars could be compared with... :biggrin

 

[BlackICE]

El Toro during the rally, DBK?

I use a Driftbox to datalog. It works great!

 

[B O N Y]

Not speaking for DBK, but setting up timing devices at the rally would change the legal complexity of the event.

Glenn, I again suggest you might arrange a dyno shoot out with other GT's

 

[SteveA]

There is a dyno shop very close to the rally location. I'll bet for a very cheep price we could rent the whole damn place!

(I don't recommend it for repairs however)

 

[BlackICE]

Not speaking for DBK, but setting up timing devices at the rally would change the legal complexity of the event.

Glenn, I again suggest you might arrange a dyno shoot out with other GT's

Agreed, Bony. No official timing of cars should be done at the event. However, the cars do have and OBDII port and many have gps units that have a side effect of collection data. The primary use of such devices are not timing. Just as many people will be wearing a wrist watch.

 

[B O N Y]

Hello All...
This thread has gone on for a long time. Glenn has spent big bucks trying to chase down a problem that most of us feel doesn't exist. I want this thread to remain cordial. I am not an engineer, we have had them on this thread.
I think all that remains is a dyno test of similar FGT's. Personally, I have no reason to participate on a dyno shoot out. However, would do so if Glenn's FGT was part of the event. Otherwise, I know your car makes more HP than mine and your WINSTON is bigger than mine. I am hoping this thread will die, or DBK closes it. Because of my involvement with Glenn, I will not do so.
Cheers,
daniel

 

[paul b]

Our car is CLEARLY not right. Something is wrong with it. Several tuning experts have agreed that the dyno results in the boost and load are NOT normal. We have dips and a wavy line where its supposed to be smooth and linear. Also, the max boost is 2 to 3 lbs less then all the other FGT's we seen. NOW, can a dealer see similar problems in the boost and the load with a scan tool? How can they effectively work on these cars without a dyno? The car is new with 300 miles on it, so Ford should take care of us, right?

Was there ever a resolution to this problem?

 

[Shadowman]

Was there ever a resolution to this problem?

Yes; after installing Bony's supercharger the patterned remianed so peace of mind found which was then followed by the installation of a "Whipple"

The last I heard he was very happy

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[B O N Y]

Yes, should we close this and let it fad off to never never land?