New Generation Eaton Blower

[STORMCAT]

The New ZR1 Vette uses a newly developed Eaton R 1900 Blower , 20% more air flow , 35% lower parasitic drag. It has 4 vanes vs 3 . Do you think we could persuade them to make one for the GT? Anyone in for a group buy??

 

[BlackICE]

Screw blowers have been thus far more efficient than roots types. Although the new Eaton 4 rotor is the better, it is not clear it is any better than screw types used on the GT. The only advantage roots has over a screw is cost. Everyone knows is cost more to screw around than to plant roots.

I am sure Dustin Whipple can give us a better informed, but maybe biased opinion.

 

[Neilda]

Everyone knows is cost more to screw around than to plant roots.

:lol:lol

 

[satx]

I believe the ZR1 also uses a "screw" type blower.

 

[BlackICE]

From what I have read it uses a 4 lobe twisted root blower. They look similar to a screw, but it is not. If one lobe doesn't fit inside of the other, it is a roots.

 

[kmillen]

I believe the ZR1 also uses a "screw" type blower.

The ZR1 uses the new Eaton blower. This new blower is absolutely incredible.

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produ...m?ssSourceNodeId=5334&ssSourceSiteId=EatonCom

Here is a simulation video of the blower in operation.

http://www.ped.ro/nloc/eaton_tvs.wmv

They don't need to go to as large of a displacement in order to use the air more efficiently than a Lysholm blower. Because of this, at equal boost pressures you will have lower temperatures, more power, better throttle response. There won't be any downsides to it. So realistically, you can drop the boost on the new TVS, create the same power as a lysholm and have less pressure on your engines internals.

If you're wondering why I've done so much research on this, let's just say something is already in the works for the GT...

 

[Kirby Vieira]

The ZR1 uses the new Eaton blower. This new blower is absolutely incredible.

If you're wondering why I've done so much research on this, let's just say something is already in the works for the GT...

I hope for the ZR1 also... like a smaller pulley. :cheers

 

[dbk]

If you're wondering why I've done so much research on this, let's just say something is already in the works for the GT...

Eagerly awaiting news...got any better idea when?

 

[Whipple Charged]

The ZR1 uses the new Eaton blower. This new blower is absolutely incredible.

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produ...m?ssSourceNodeId=5334&ssSourceSiteId=EatonCom

Here is a simulation video of the blower in operation.

http://www.ped.ro/nloc/eaton_tvs.wmv

They don't need to go to as large of a displacement in order to use the air more efficiently than a Lysholm blower. Because of this, at equal boost pressures you will have lower temperatures, more power, better throttle response. There won't be any downsides to it. So realistically, you can drop the boost on the new TVS, create the same power as a lysholm and have less pressure on your engines internals.

If you're wondering why I've done so much research on this, let's just say something is already in the works for the GT...

I would really like to clear up some misinformation. First, I've tested every PD blower made today, and I have true back to back results of compressor flow, temp, power consumption, VE, AE, Total AE, Isentropic, etc.

Eaton has a few sizes of new generation roots superchargers. The new 4 lobe 160deg helix is truly a night and day difference between the last gen of the 3 lobe 60 deg rotors that they always claimed were the best around. But, when comparing to a screw compressor, there still is no comparison. Especially when PSI levels reach past 12psi. The latest version is the 2300, which is a 2.3 liter compressor that is rated up to 16,000rpm max speed (1900 has a 18,000 speed). Therefore, it can only flow 2.3 liter if it was 100%VE, which its not. Notice the number, ya, its the same as the stock SC.

Just for some numbers, and real results, because what was posted above is just false information.

When comparing to a stock, Ford GT Lysholm 2.3 liter SC, or 2300cc, to the Eaton TVS 2300, at 12psi. The TVS2300 flows approx 2% more air from 2000-6000rpm, yet takes 2% more Kw to operate (simply a function of the extra air its flowing), from 8000 to 12000rpm, they basically are identical in flow and Kw, yet the TVS 2300 runs 12-15deg hotter (@ 12psi, increases as pressure increases). From 14,000-18,000rpm, there is a noticable flow difference, over 3% (Screw flows more).

When comparing to the Whipple 140ax, we flow the same from 2000-6000, then increase 1% at 8000, 2% at 10,000, 4-5% over the Lysholm at the higher rpms. Kw is approx 2% less and temp is yet another 8-10deg cooler.

Whipples Gen2 140ax flows a incredible 7% more down low, 5% in the mid, and 7% at the higher rpm, yet the same 2.3liter rating. Yet, temp is another 5deg cooler, and Kw is again, 1-2% less at equal flow levels.

When comparing to the Gen1 W200ax, there is no comparison in Kw or temp, or potential airflow.

To state that it flows so much more air is completly false and since it flows no more than the stock SC, potential boost is low, your looking a max of approx 16psi with a 2.65" pulley. At 16psi, the screw compressor is even better, go to 20, and again, its even a bigger change. Granted, the TVS will make a touch more torque down low than the stock SC, but when both are pullied to make 16psi, were basically gonna have the same animal.

So no downsides? Actually a few, first, can't make enough airflow to get the 700+rwhp numbers, because it has to turn over it's max speed to get 16-17psi, its on the trailing end of its efficiency table.

Its a pretty known fact that all current screw and new gen roots superchargers peak in the mid 8000-12000rpm range and slightly decrease as rpm increases. Its a very known fact that the bigger sc does not have "disadvantages", it runs nearly 6000rpm lower rpms to equal the same airflow (gen 1) and has the potential to make far more power.

The Eaton TVS is a great SC, and made great strides, especially since the previous generation sc's were claimed to be better than screws. Yet, in every test (other than the roots supplier test), the screw makes more power at more reliable levels.

To note, the 1900 has to turn approx. 2000rpm more to get close to the same airflow. The real misinformation is that Lysholm quotes peak speeds at 14,000rpm for the 2.3L and 12,000rpm for the 3.3L. Therefore, some have read Eaton's graphs that show more airflow (@18,000rpm). Our SC's are rated up to 18,000rpm. Eaton's paperwork states the 2300 can flow 2400 m3/hr at peak speed, perfect conditions. This is the same as the Lysholm, while the Whipple 140 is more. The W200 is even greater.

The slower sped compressor not only takes less Kw (energy) to operate, it creates less heat and has more volume of air per rev, equaling greater airflow levels during drive-ability.

Last, Eaton roots have straghit cut gears and needle bearings in the rear. This equals a noticable noise at idle and part throttle. Our twin screw has helical cut gears, highly accurate, we also have precision roller bearings in the rear, and dual angular contact bearings in the front. Far more robust.

Thanks,
Dustin

 

[Whipple Charged]

Screw blowers have been thus far more efficient than roots types. Although the new Eaton 4 rotor is the better, it is not clear it is any better than screw types used on the GT. The only advantage roots has over a screw is cost. Everyone knows is cost more to screw around than to plant roots.

I am sure Dustin Whipple can give us a better informed, but maybe biased opinion.

Blackice, I fell out of my chair with that screwing around versus planted! I can say, at 8psi and below, they're is very little difference except for the flow characterisitics, as the TVS drops off a touch more at the higher rpm. But as PSI's increase, their is still a noticiable difference. Then, we have some new tricks up our sleeves that will again show the superiority.

Dustin

 

[Whipple Charged]

The New ZR1 Vette uses a newly developed Eaton R 1900 Blower , 20% more air flow , 35% lower parasitic drag. It has 4 vanes vs 3 . Do you think we could persuade them to make one for the GT? Anyone in for a group buy??

Stormcat, the new vette actually uses the 2300 (2.3 liter). 35% less parasitic is really, really off from fact. If thats so, what in the world were they selling to everybody before?

Thanks,
Dustin

 

[PHXGT]

Dustin,

Thanks for the time you take to educate us all. This is all new to me, and I appreciate you taking the time. Makes me want a Whipple.

David.

 

[BlackICE]

...Its a pretty known fact that all current screw and new gen roots superchargers peak in the mid 8000-12000rpm range and slightly decrease as rpm increases. Its a very known fact that the bigger sc does not have "disadvantages", it runs nearly 6000rpm lower rpms to equal the same airflow (gen 1) and has the potential to make far more power.

Thanks,
Dustin

Bigger has no disadvantages! Great when if the 5L Whipple GT kit going to be ready?

:thumbsup:cheers:thumbsup

 

[Whipple Charged]

Bigger has no disadvantages! Great when if the 5L Whipple GT kit going to be ready?

:thumbsup:cheers:thumbsup

:lol When someone is ready to build a new back half of the car :biggrin Trust me, I want to do it.

 

[Whipple Charged]

Dustin,

Thanks for the time you take to educate us all. This is all new to me, and I appreciate you taking the time. Makes me want a Whipple.

David.

No problem, just hope to keep the information accurate.

Dustin

 

[BlackICE]

:lol When someone is ready to build a new back half of the car :biggrin Trust me, I want to do it.

Where is the clearance problem? With the window?

 

[DoctorV8]

Great information, Dustin. I wonder if there is room for a Whipple under the ZR1's intercooler? :biggrin

Has anyone seen the Roush/TVS blower upgrade for the GT500? Is it the same blower under the ZR1's hood window?

 

[kmillen]

I would really like to clear up some misinformation. First, I've tested every PD blower made today, and I have true back to back results of compressor flow, temp, power consumption, VE, AE, Total AE, Isentropic, etc.

Eaton has a few sizes of new generation roots superchargers. The new 4 lobe 160deg helix is truly a night and day difference between the last gen of the 3 lobe 60 deg rotors that they always claimed were the best around. But, when comparing to a screw compressor, there still is no comparison. Especially when PSI levels reach past 12psi. The latest version is the 2300, which is a 2.3 liter compressor that is rated up to 16,000rpm max speed (1900 has a 18,000 speed). Therefore, it can only flow 2.3 liter if it was 100%VE, which its not. Notice the number, ya, its the same as the stock SC.

Just for some numbers, and real results, because what was posted above is just false information.

When comparing to a stock, Ford GT Lysholm 2.3 liter SC, or 2300cc, to the Eaton TVS 2300, at 12psi. The TVS2300 flows approx 2% more air from 2000-6000rpm, yet takes 2% more Kw to operate (simply a function of the extra air its flowing), from 8000 to 12000rpm, they basically are identical in flow and Kw, yet the TVS 2300 runs 12-15deg hotter (@ 12psi, increases as pressure increases). From 14,000-18,000rpm, there is a noticable flow difference, over 3% (Screw flows more).

When comparing to the Whipple 140ax, we flow the same from 2000-6000, then increase 1% at 8000, 2% at 10,000, 4-5% over the Lysholm at the higher rpms. Kw is approx 2% less and temp is yet another 8-10deg cooler.

Whipples Gen2 140ax flows a incredible 7% more down low, 5% in the mid, and 7% at the higher rpm, yet the same 2.3liter rating. Yet, temp is another 5deg cooler, and Kw is again, 1-2% less at equal flow levels.

When comparing to the Gen1 W200ax, there is no comparison in Kw or temp, or potential airflow.

To state that it flows so much more air is completly false and since it flows no more than the stock SC, potential boost is low, your looking a max of approx 16psi with a 2.65" pulley. At 16psi, the screw compressor is even better, go to 20, and again, its even a bigger change. Granted, the TVS will make a touch more torque down low than the stock SC, but when both are pullied to make 16psi, were basically gonna have the same animal.

So no downsides? Actually a few, first, can't make enough airflow to get the 700+rwhp numbers, because it has to turn over it's max speed to get 16-17psi, its on the trailing end of its efficiency table.

Its a pretty known fact that all current screw and new gen roots superchargers peak in the mid 8000-12000rpm range and slightly decrease as rpm increases. Its a very known fact that the bigger sc does not have "disadvantages", it runs nearly 6000rpm lower rpms to equal the same airflow (gen 1) and has the potential to make far more power.

The Eaton TVS is a great SC, and made great strides, especially since the previous generation sc's were claimed to be better than screws. Yet, in every test (other than the roots supplier test), the screw makes more power at more reliable levels.

To note, the 1900 has to turn approx. 2000rpm more to get close to the same airflow. The real misinformation is that Lysholm quotes peak speeds at 14,000rpm for the 2.3L and 12,000rpm for the 3.3L. Therefore, some have read Eaton's graphs that show more airflow (@18,000rpm). Our SC's are rated up to 18,000rpm. Eaton's paperwork states the 2300 can flow 2400 m3/hr at peak speed, perfect conditions. This is the same as the Lysholm, while the Whipple 140 is more. The W200 is even greater.

The slower sped compressor not only takes less Kw (energy) to operate, it creates less heat and has more volume of air per rev, equaling greater airflow levels during drive-ability.

Last, Eaton roots have straghit cut gears and needle bearings in the rear. This equals a noticable noise at idle and part throttle. Our twin screw has helical cut gears, highly accurate, we also have precision roller bearings in the rear, and dual angular contact bearings in the front. Far more robust.

Thanks,
Dustin

Dustin,

I am sorry if you feel I was trying to take away from your product or mislead any of the Ford GT owner's. All of the information that I stated was simply information that I have gathered from my research with Eaton and other performance/forced induction specialists.

With that being said, We will still be moving forward with our plans on developing the new blower for the GT. As soon as we have more information and data I will be sharing it.

 

[Fast Freddy]

the ZR1's blower at 10 psi is already running at max efficiency and it has a max rpm rating of 15,000 rpm's. therefore turning up the boost on the ZR1's blower is not gonna make anymore power and just create heat soak. also the blowers life will be reduced and will fail prematurely as a result of to many rpm's. the ZR1 is a wannabe supercar.

 

[californiacuda]

What is the parasitic loss for whipple 3.3 when it's making close to max boost in the GT?