Motorcraft 5W-50 full synthetic

[BlackICE]

I have seen this as early as 1k miles on the MC.

That's because a 5w-50 is really a doctored up 5w oil with additives that reduce thinning out as it gets warm. These additives are less effective over time. I don't see any 5w-50 holding up.

The best thing to do is use a strait 50w oil and add oil heater to pre-warm the oil before the car is started. :lol

Then the oil won't "thinout."

One has to wonder about the 5K change interval.

 

[MNJason]

BlackICE 8000th post!

 

[BlackICE]

BlackICE 8000th post!

No, 8001!!! :lol

I'm never going to catch up with EP.

 

[Wwabbit]

Interesting read, but...

but yes, but I'm afraid its the tip of the iceberg.

 

[jcthorne]

That's because a 5w-50 is really a doctored up 5w oil with additives that reduce thinning out as it gets warm. These additives are less effective over time. I don't see any 5w-50 holding up.

The best thing to do is use a strait 50w oil and add oil heater to pre-warm the oil before the car is started. :lol

Then the oil won't "thinout."

One has to wonder about the 5K change interval.

If you review the chart of used oil analysis results at the SVT site, you will see that the MC is by far the worst 5W50 on the market at shear strength. IE thinning over time. Many 5W40 oils are far better after just a few miles than the MC 5W50, and hence my use of Rotella T6.

The currently available Motorcraft 5W50 has very poor shear strength compared to any of its competitors.

 

[GTdrummer]

We had a guy on the Viper site who had worked many years as an engineer at a major oil company. All he , and some others ever used in their Vipers was rotella 15/40 diesal oil.

I cannot begin to give you the many techno reasons he gave , but he was very convincing, saying among other things that the oil had much more cleaning additives, etc.

 

[Xcentric]

Very fast shipping from k-mansparts. Ordered Friday, delivered Monday (SC > VA).

 

[2112]

There are some fantastic oils that don't meet the new E.P.A. regs.

I use Joe Gibbs Racing oil in my Big Block Ford boat motors;

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/products/race-engine-oils.html

 

[Wwabbit]

Geez, now my head is really going to explode. Everybody's marketing fluff reads great, buuuut, data please, bring me the shear rate vs shear stress data,, puleeeez. I'm sending a few samples for analysis this week for fun. (I've got a fresh MC sample with 400 track miles from last weekend). When this discussion gets put to bed (like the tire thread), if it ever does, I'll sleep better.

Edit; Certainly there are several oils that may be 'good enough' and we should select oils by how we use and manage the car. I sleep better already.

 

[BlackICE]

If you review the chart of used oil analysis results at the SVT site, you will see that the MC is by far the worst 5W50 on the market at shear strength. IE thinning over time. Many 5W40 oils are far better after just a few miles than the MC 5W50, and hence my use of Rotella T6.

The currently available Motorcraft 5W50 has very poor shear strength compared to any of its competitors.

Other than Redline, Castro and Pennzoil 5w-50 seem to shear about the same as MC. It isn't fair to compare shear % of a 5w-50 to a 5w-40. Some other forums said they found more lead in the oil after using Redline.

 

[jcthorne]

I would not compare shear %, but rather actual operating temp viscosity and qty of wear metals in the samples of the two oils. Yes, experience with the Redline product is showing that using a REAL 5W50 that stays a 5W50 over time is indeed to heavy an oil for the DOHC 5.4. I would rather have an oil that starts at the correct viscosity and stays there over its life than one that starts too heavy and shears to a point too light by end of life.

 

[Xcentric]

I'm a little surprised at the willingness to experiment, considering the GT engine is unique. Extensive use of aluminum (including pistons), dry sump oil pump, piston squirters, highly boosted. 6,500 rpm with an undersquare (long stroke...astonishing piston speeds) design, high lift cams with hydraulic lifters. yadda yadda.

This is the only car I know of that you are supposed to let idle for 5-10 minutes before driving to let all the parts expand to operating clearances. Maybe there are a few others, but most say start and drive for faster warm up.

I'm academically interested in what you guys report from oil analyses, but I'm lubing with Motorcraft. Particularly since Ford has effectively revalidated the SN standard with the GT500.

 

[BlackICE]

From the oil analysis I would be safe to say that using MC, at least one of these statements has to be true.

1. The oil's viscosity too high when new.
2. The oil's viscosity is too low when used.
3. The oil never has the optimal viscosity.

Most likely are three!

 

[2112]

I would think you would want the viscosity to be matched to the most stressful point in time; High RPM, High Boost.

With proper warm up of oil, I would venture that 30 weight would be the minimum requirement in that scenario (seeking more cushion)

50 weight, when 210 degrees is pretty darn thin, high flowing material. Even at room temp, it flows pretty nice without pressure (pump).

For me personally, I want cushion between the journals and bearings in the highest stress point in time. If it weakens prematurely, and I am aware it does? Just change it out more frequently.

 

[Sinovac]

I simply want to know what oil Jeff is using.

http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?25832-Catch-Me-If-You-Can&highlight=Catch+me

 

[GTdrummer]

I simply want to know what oil Jeff is using.

http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?25832-Catch-Me-If-You-Can&highlight=Catch+me

Good point.

 

[BlackICE]

I run all types of oils from dino oil from major oil companies to synthetics, I have never had an oil releted engine failure on the cars that I drive. My all of wifes car have had oil "burning" issues which I believe are from poor breakin and continual heavy throttle use when cold from day 1. If you don't track, mile, or push the limits of the car much I doubt that the engine will wear out from use of any reasonable oil. It should last well over 100K without issues.

 

[2112]

:agree:

I have experienced a Oil related failure before. It was due to inadequate flow, not the oil itself. I want something that gives me the cushion to keep metal from metal and just enough filtration to keep the rocks out. Personally, I would not be unhappy to re-ring and re-bearing the engine at 100K miles. Blowing a rod thru the block due to a spun bearing....now that could ruin my day.

 

[Wwabbit]

I would not compare shear %, but rather actual operating temp viscosity and qty of wear metals in the samples of the two oils. Yes, experience with the Redline product is showing that using a REAL 5W50 that stays a 5W50 over time is indeed to heavy an oil for the DOHC 5.4. I would rather have an oil that starts at the correct viscosity and stays there over its life than one that starts too heavy and shears to a point too light by end of life.

Ageed, and this is pretty much what the Timken test did but at a constant temp. Plating and break through is what boundary lubrication is all about. But other parts of your comment seem contradictory; MC oil is spec'd at 50w to start, so why is an oil like Red Line that stays closer to 50w in use too heavy? One thing missing here is Ford's engineering detail on why they chose this particular oil spec. Surely they saw the viscosity of their own oil diminish with wear. Maybe it doesn't matter or they weren't troubled by it, or it was simply good enough for them and the mass market use for their cars. Your last statement certainly seems correct - for optimal results oil should remain reasonably in range in use. The universal trouble with viscosity modifiers in oil is their rheology characteristics change with wear from heat or stress. That's how the specialty race oil companies even exist in the face of the majors. Their tricked out formulations would never survive in the mass market at the price points they need.

From the oil analysis I would be safe to say that using MC, at least one of these statements has to be true.

1. The oil's viscosity too high when new.
2. The oil's viscosity is too low when used.
3. The oil never has the optimal viscosity.

Most likely are three!

Agreed.

I would think you would want the viscosity to be matched to the most stressful point in time; High RPM, High Boost.

With proper warm up of oil, I would venture that 30 weight would be the minimum requirement in that scenario (seeking more cushion)

50 weight, when 210 degrees is pretty darn thin, high flowing material. Even at room temp, it flows pretty nice without pressure (pump).

For me personally, I want cushion between the journals and bearings in the highest stress point in time. If it weakens prematurely, and I am aware it does? Just change it out more frequently.

So it sounds like we could use any good oil, but change a lot. I'm down for that (but I'll hold that thought till I get the 400 mi track sample back from analysis).

I simply want to know what oil Jeff is using.

http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?25832-Catch-Me-If-You-Can&highlight=Catch+me

He also gets 12,000 miles on a set of OEM tires, I'd guess 5000mi oil changes are no prob for him - to his credit. In fact, what ever it is he's doing, it's probably exactly correct for him. But that's the whole question, you may drive differently and present the engine with different performance requirements. Your lubrication needs are likely not the same.

 

[BlackICE]

IMO a straight 50w oil preheated to 85C would give the best engine protection.