So, is wait and see a reasonable approach or is preventive maintenance the way to go at this point?
Halfshaft Bolt Answers (all threads merged)
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So, is wait and see a reasonable approach or is preventive maintenance the way to go at this point?
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Since REPLACEMENT 'bolts have also failed - why BOTHER REPLACING 'BOLTS AT ALL at this point??????? 'Could be whatever bolts your GT has right now will be fine from now 'til dooms day ...and the ones you install in their place "to be safe" WILL PUKE NEXT WEEK! Dis be a "conundrum", Mr. Conundrum!
BlackICE
GT Owner
I have a late production 2005 and paid the GT Guys to change mine and was glad it did. The washers were the old silver colored ones and both were severely bent! This couldn't be what the Ford and Ricardo engineers designed them to do that why they now use harder black washers.
The black washers may not be a fix all, but in my mind (peace of mind) they are better than leaving the soft washers in waiting for a problem.
The black washers may not be a fix all, but in my mind (peace of mind) they are better than leaving the soft washers in waiting for a problem.
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Sorry. I should have been clearer, replace the bolts and washers, use locktite and safety wire the new ones in. Get peace of mind...
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
Empty Pockets - ("Since REPLACEMENT 'bolts have also failed - why BOTHER REPLACING 'BOLTS AT ALL at this point???????") I am not sure the incident of replacement bolts subsequently failing has been substantiated. Previous posts indicate car owners taking their cars to Ford to fix a broken half shaft may have only received the bolt upgrade on the failed half-shaft side. Thus one side was fixed and the other side untouched. Belive Alfonz had this trouble (one of the first to report this difficulty) down in Ft. Lauderdale. And had to fight the dealer to upgrade BOTH sides. Any owners out there who can definitively state that an upgraded half-shaft bolt broke again after being replaced?
Gimbal, glad you are back and provide further input. ("The bolts I took off looked over torqued because the underside of the head was real shinny and the edges were a bit mushroomed"). Good observation. The fracture surface of a failed bolt can and will tell you a great deal as to its failure. Any competent engineer with a 10x loop looking at a failed bolt can pretty easily determine the failure mode (tensile overload, torsion or fatigue). It would be helpful if any owners which have experienced a half-shaft bolt failure and still have the broken bolt(s) to send them to Gimbal as requested.
The failure you describe appears to be tensile overload not an over torque situation. See the helpful link from ARP (again I have no alliance to ARP) which describes and shows pictures of various bolt failures:
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechWhy.html
As to your questions regarding the axle design and fix, I just do not know. It sounds complicated but the first step in the analysis process is to determine the "root cause" of the failure mechanism. I am not sure this has been categorically identified. Hopefully it has and the Ford team is exploring options to provide us a reliable bolted joint where we do not have to have this in the back of our mind as we drive at night in remote areas.....
Gimbal, glad you are back and provide further input. ("The bolts I took off looked over torqued because the underside of the head was real shinny and the edges were a bit mushroomed"). Good observation. The fracture surface of a failed bolt can and will tell you a great deal as to its failure. Any competent engineer with a 10x loop looking at a failed bolt can pretty easily determine the failure mode (tensile overload, torsion or fatigue). It would be helpful if any owners which have experienced a half-shaft bolt failure and still have the broken bolt(s) to send them to Gimbal as requested.
The failure you describe appears to be tensile overload not an over torque situation. See the helpful link from ARP (again I have no alliance to ARP) which describes and shows pictures of various bolt failures:
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechWhy.html
As to your questions regarding the axle design and fix, I just do not know. It sounds complicated but the first step in the analysis process is to determine the "root cause" of the failure mechanism. I am not sure this has been categorically identified. Hopefully it has and the Ford team is exploring options to provide us a reliable bolted joint where we do not have to have this in the back of our mind as we drive at night in remote areas.....
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Indy: Ya. I'm sure this HAS happened. I don't recall to whom it happened (Prowler, I think), but I'm sure it did. Hence my comment. I just don't see any point in doing it. It's just a placebo action right now 'far as I'm concerned.:shrug (If they break - then "upgrade"... even thought the upgrades themselves may break as well 'cause, shoot!, yuh can't just let the car SIT!)
I'm still betting the cars that had - and are going to have - the breaks are the cars with the "uneven" gaps 'twinkst the hubs & 'case (for the reasons I stated elsewhere on his thread).
I'm still betting the cars that had - and are going to have - the breaks are the cars with the "uneven" gaps 'twinkst the hubs & 'case (for the reasons I stated elsewhere on his thread).
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Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
I agree. I have not had the upgrade accomplished on my '06 and will probably just sit tight and see what happens. If Ford does something or if the failure mode is identified.
Bony as well as others have asked for comments from anyone who has installed the Accufab bolt kit. Anyone?? comments??
Bony as well as others have asked for comments from anyone who has installed the Accufab bolt kit. Anyone?? comments??
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gtjoey
Keep Smiling - GT Owner
- Oct 14, 2005
- 3,454
Just drove in don carsons today, it was bolted in 10 minutes ago. I liked it!! lillte louder without shaking your teeth, also out of all of them it sounded throaty enough without backfire gurgle and banging. Horse power no difference, i have to admit , MAN THAT ORIGINAL MUFFLER IS A TON, PLUS A HEAT SOAK BOX. I LIKED IT GTJOEY 1314:thumbsup
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
No problem, if you want to risk sitting on the side of the road in the 'hood somewhere. $350 is cheap peace of mind, the cost of a respectable bottle of claret in a decent steak joint. Each to his own, some guys I know enjoy the thrill of the unknown...
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Yup. 'Different strokes!
Aaaaah! A nite in "the Hood"! Sounds exciting!:thumbsdow Howsomever, WHY would one be driving "in the hood" inna FIRST place?:shrug
But, honestly Bony, what really IS accomplished by replacing possible problem bolts "A" with possible problem bolts "B" when BOTH have failed in the past? 'Not being a wise guy here - 'just asking the question. 'Duzzunt seem like anything other than a "mind game" one plays on one's self at a cost of $350-$400.
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Like I said, each to his own, do what is right. If you think the 'hood is more dangerous than being stuck on the side of any freeway, back road, I assure you it is not. Also, we have had every resident expert weight in with their thoughts. Pick the one you like best, I know I did... each to his own.
Gimbal
GT Owner
Empty Pockets, the reason I changed my bolts and washer is because that was the only way to assure I had hardened washers and tightened and loctited bolts. Some GT's did not have the hardened washer and had loose bolts. It's cheap insurance to double check the bolts and washer.
The gamble not checking your bolts and washer is an axle coming loose at speed and ripping the shit out of many things under the hood including fuel lines.
The gamble not checking your bolts and washer is an axle coming loose at speed and ripping the shit out of many things under the hood including fuel lines.
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Well, you have a darn good point THERE to be sure, Gimbal ( the axle stays in the case, so I assume you ment the hub & 1/2 shaft coming loose?). 'Hadn't really looked at it quite THAT way B4.
NUTS!!!!! AND HERE ALL THIS TIME I THOUGHT I'D TALKED MYSELF INTO SITTING THIS THING OUT!!!!!
But still, as I said B4, there's no guarantee that the REPLACEMENT bolts wouldn't go belly up too... so, are you suggesting THEY be checked every now and then too? See what I mean? So, 'bottom line is: until Ford, or Jay, or whomever, comes up with an iron clad fix for this <1% problem, it seems to me "we all be" possible tow truck fodder no matter WHAT we do.
Crap. If it's not ONE thing it's another...
Gimbal
GT Owner
Hi EP,
Right, the axle should stay in the tranny when the two bolts break. At speed the Flange and Half-shaft should be the components creating all the damage as they fling around at high speed.
Everyone should check to see if they have soft washers and/or loose bolts, it is the only way to know for sure. You are right that hardened washers, loctited and safty wired bolts are not a gaurantee of no failure. Until a real fix is figured out you need to make sure you do not have soft washers. I won't be checking to see if my bolts are loose because I did loctite them and saftey wire them. The only failure I would expect is the bolt heads snapping off at some point. It's a ticking time bomb until a real fix is found.
Right, the axle should stay in the tranny when the two bolts break. At speed the Flange and Half-shaft should be the components creating all the damage as they fling around at high speed.
Everyone should check to see if they have soft washers and/or loose bolts, it is the only way to know for sure. You are right that hardened washers, loctited and safty wired bolts are not a gaurantee of no failure. Until a real fix is figured out you need to make sure you do not have soft washers. I won't be checking to see if my bolts are loose because I did loctite them and saftey wire them. The only failure I would expect is the bolt heads snapping off at some point. It's a ticking time bomb until a real fix is found.
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
'ZACTLY!!!!!!!!!
And, if one has an '06 ('don't know what your's is), the odds are pretty good you HAVE the hardened kit anyway ... but THAT's not guaranteed either!!!!!!
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Gimbal
GT Owner
EP, mine is an '06 made in Nov '05
It did have hard washers and loctited bolts. It now has the same but with the added saftey wire and bolts with a larger head root radius.
I do have different size gaps but I feel the gaps don't have anything to do with the problem. Of course I could be wrong about everything I have ever said about this problem.
It did have hard washers and loctited bolts. It now has the same but with the added saftey wire and bolts with a larger head root radius.
I do have different size gaps but I feel the gaps don't have anything to do with the problem. Of course I could be wrong about everything I have ever said about this problem.
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Gimbal
GT Owner
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
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