Engine Temp


avant

GT Owner
Apr 22, 2007
76
calgary, canada
Temp

Yes, the fans are on. Yes, the temp problem appears to be limited to aggressive track driving, however this is only after 5 minutes!
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Yes, the fans are on. Yes, the temp problem appears to be limited to aggressive track driving, however this is only after 5 minutes!

My experience is the car's temp will rise if you run high RPMs in 2nd for extended periods of time, no problems when in 3rd.
 

S592R

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 3, 2006
2,800
Run the air conditioner when you run the car hard to turn on the fans. Try water wetter in the coolant. Install a transaxle cooler. Get rid of the factory exhaust. Install a couple of spacers between the license plate and the back of car to help airflow in the back.

220 is the top end that I have seen with this stuff done.
 

JimF

GT Owner
Dec 19, 2006
88
Palm Springs, Lake Tahoe
Temps

I have the GT in the Palm Springs area. Currently air temps are in the 80's and 90's. I have a trans cooler, water wetter, cat delete, Stillen exhaust, big spacers on license plate, water wetter in the intercooler and the car runs at 200 with normal driving. In the wnter it holds at 180. If I push it much the temp goes above 200 and will blow without pushing too much.

For my area, the car in definitely undercooled. I do not have springs on the radiator lines from the front and I still have the stock screen (05 car) front and rear. I believe my car requires more radiator capacity to get more heat out of the engine. To me, removing the screens does not seem to be the solution.

I will speak with the Ron Davis folks about the radiator options and report back.

Jim
 

fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,704
Belleville, IL
I suggest you all look back at the sticky by The Architect regarding this issue.
 

Blue GT

GT Owner
Mar 20, 2007
48
Washington State
another cooling idea

Try burping the cooling system. You also can install a by pass switch to turn on the fans while using heavy track use. This worked on our Vipers. Dan
 
Aug 25, 2006
4,436
I have the GT in the Palm Springs area. Currently air temps are in the 80's and 90's. I have a trans cooler, water wetter, cat delete, Stillen exhaust, big spacers on license plate, water wetter in the intercooler and the car runs at 200 with normal driving. In the wnter it holds at 180. If I push it much the temp goes above 200 and will blow without pushing too much.

For my area, the car in definitely undercooled. I do not have springs on the radiator lines from the front and I still have the stock screen (05 car) front and rear. I believe my car requires more radiator capacity to get more heat out of the engine. To me, removing the screens does not seem to be the solution.

I will speak with the Ron Davis folks about the radiator options and report back.

Jim

Hi Jim

FYI; removing the early screen results in a "HUGE" cooling advantage.

The early screen acts akin to an air dam as such the air flow across the cores is significantly reduced. To complete the conversion to an 06 style setup requires that the nose of the gal be removed and then the screen is removed and in it's place goes a frame of sorts with integtated center supports that cover the structural bars.

The process is not difficult and IMO a worthy consideration.

Takes care

Shadowman
 

avant

GT Owner
Apr 22, 2007
76
calgary, canada
Temp Update

I took her out touring for a few hours yesterday and drove a bit aggressively and the temp never exceeded 190F. Conclusion: Hard tracking in primarily 2nd gear does not make her happy (it only took about 5 minutes to hit 240F).
 
Aug 25, 2006
4,436
I took her out touring for a few hours yesterday and drove a bit aggressively and the temp never exceeded 190F. Conclusion: Hard tracking in primarily 2nd gear does not make her happy (it only took about 5 minutes to hit 240F).

Your experience is similar to those by Ford during the testing (as I was told).

It is my understanding that in order for the gals to qualify for and then materially participate in the SVT program they must be able to maintain proper operation during the 20 minute track sessions however the early gals with the grill could not as such it was removed which then allowed them to fully participate in this program

I was also told that even though removing the grill made a significant improvement at the end of the 20 minute session they still needed to be pulled off the track because temperatures would climb.

Now as for bleeding the system; I had a very interesting experience a short time ago. A gal that seemed to operate fine however had a temperature gauge that that was prone to rapid fluctuations; so much so that Stillen while installing their alternate gear set replaced the thermostat suspecting that this was the culprit; this was a mutual decision by both the customer and Stillen’s team however the problem remained. While she was with me I elected to completely vacuum the system taking note of the fluid drawn out versus that which was drawn back in. the key word here is drawn because the system is designed to draw fluids in to replace the vacuum as such no air is introduced to the system. After this process was completed she took a couple quarts more fluid and the problem was gone.

Now could this also be contributing to your issue; maybe nevertheless I share that because of the systems design it is next to impossible to remove the air within without using a vacuum process.

Takes care

Shadowman
 

RALPHIE

GT Owner
Mar 1, 2007
7,278
I took her out touring for a few hours yesterday and drove a bit aggressively and the temp never exceeded 190F. Conclusion: Hard tracking in primarily 2nd gear does not make her happy (it only took about 5 minutes to hit 240F).

Jim -

I had a similar experience at the SAAC32/SVTOA convention last July at Miller Motorsports Park in Tooele, Utah. I ran the full track (4.5 mile) on Monday with the SVTOA groups, and would only get into 3rd twice and 4th briefly at the end of the main straight - the rest was in 2nd primarily. I was running 110 octane leaded fuel, and the outside ambient temperature was running about 109°. After a few warmup laps, the car was always above 220°, and usually between 230° and 240°. Once, I hit the temperature limit (I think it's at 242°) and the engine shut down a couple of cylinders - the reduced speed and performance dropped the temp to about 234° in about a ¼-lap, and the car regained it's power curve.

However, in driving to and from the track, in the hot outside temperatures, it stayed at about 170°-180°, unless in Salt Lake City traffic, where it would hover about 200°.

My configuration is a late 2005 model (September build) which does NOT have the screen in front of the radiators. However, I've always wondered if the bugs hitting the 1st radiator (after a number of miles) don't reduce the cooling air flow as much as the screen of the earlier models.

Ralphie
 

avant

GT Owner
Apr 22, 2007
76
calgary, canada
Temp Update

Thanks for the info Bill. Mine is an 06 and does not have the grill, however I am running a whipple. Would you strongly suggest the vacuum treatment or should I just adjust my driving style?
Just a note, I seem to be running a rich tune, fire comes out the pipes on deceleration, could this exacerbate the condition?
Mark
 
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Fubar

Totally ****** Up
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 2, 2006
3,979
Dallas, TX
Thanks for the info Bill. Mine is an 06 and does not have the grill, however I am running a whipple. Would you strongly suggest the vacuum treatment or should I just adjust my driving style?
Just a note, I seem to be running a rich tune, fire comes out the pipes on deceleration, could this exacerbate the condition?
Mark

I have had the same experience. Removing my cats really aggravated the the problem. I am told (and mean to get video soon) that if I gear brake I can extend flame 3 feet out the back for 10 -15 seconds at a time. We have renamed the blue devile... she is now called the bat mobile. :rofl
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 2, 2006
3,979
Dallas, TX
FYI; removing the early screen results in a "HUGE" cooling advantage.......The process is not difficult and IMO a worthy consideration.

Takes care

Shadowman

I hate to put you on the spot (not really) but would you mind giving us one of you famous Shadowman How To's on the screen removal?
 
Aug 25, 2006
4,436
I hate to put you on the spot (not really) but would you mind giving us one of you famous Shadowman How To's on the screen removal?

Now let me address a couple items;

The vacuuming of the cooling system was me sharing a real time experience and the associated results however I was not encouraging others to do so but rather this was my attempt was to make clear the proper way to fill a system and an avenue to take if something seems askew.

Now as for folks changing their driving style to combat the warmer temperatures experienced; to this I can only say that which I have been told. These gals ran hot with the original screen in place and the situation was significantly improved once it was removed as the result of a production change however even with her nose fully open if the gal is tracked expect to see temperatures climb as such once your track time is completed do “not” simply turn her off but rather run a cool down lap or let her idle for a couple minutes akin to that which is done with a race horse.

Now as for the removing of the early screen; it is a Saturday afternoon project with basic hand tools; 6, 8, and 10mm socket/wrench, 27 Torx, a Phillips screwdriver and of course plenty of blue tape to mask the perimeter of the wheel openings as well as all other areas such as the seam where the fender and the front cover joins as well as all other areas that you find yourself in close contact with during the process.

FYI; I recommend the following be on site to complete the process;

1. Blue tape
2. Blanket or stand to set the nose of the gal on
3. The tools as mentioned above
4. 8 new screw in style retainers for the front inner fender liners
5. 20 new press in style retainers for the front inner fender liners
6. Three new press in retainers for the nose of the gal
7. New late style opening frame that will be the replacement for the early grill

Once the masking is finished you need to remove the front inner fender liners (take your time and do “NOT” fight them as them will come out with no damage however it is a bit of a puzzle figuring out exactly what they want when doing so; installation is NBD) so that you can access and remove the headlights; in doing this you also will have to remove the washer fluid tank on the driver side (it is secured with a single bolt and once removed the tank can simply be set out of the way without completely removing it) and the canister purge tank on the passenger side (this is secured with a 10mm bolt, 3 Torx, and a solo nut. Disconnect the upper most hose and then it can be set aside without completely removing it) and horns are secured to a solo bracket by one Torx on the passenger side; all of these processes are relatively easy.

You will also need to remove the lower chin spoiler which is secured with a series of 8mm bolts around the perimeter and a row of Torx across the rear edge. Then unplug the side markers, the lower front running lights then remove the associated hardware (8mm bolts (as I recall there are a total of five per side; three that secure the front nose to the fender that are installed from the top down and then the two on each side that are installed horizontally through the narrow strip along where the headlights were) all of which are easy to access; special note that there are two on each side that go in from where the headlights were that secure the fender to the front cover along the narrow strip will also allow for a critical final adjustment when reassembling.

Once this has been completed the nose of the gal is only being held in position by 3 press in retainers located along/under the edge that runs along the bonnet. With two people the process to lift it off is painless and the assembly is very light; for example I do it by myself. Once off and flipped upside down either on a nice blanket or placed on a stand the two running light assemblies will need to be removed along with several small Phillip screws and then the early style screen can be removed. Now at this point it is recommended that you replace the early style screen with the late style opening frame which installs the reverse of that which was removed. Once this process has been completed the reinstalling of the nose is easy; simply set the assembly on the gal using the 3 new press in retainers as the starting point and then bring each side up to the fenders and secure with the 3 bolts on both sides.

Now take a little time to methodically align all of the seams as you snug all of the hardware and then plug the running lights back in, install the headlights, the canister purge tank, the horns, the washer tank, the inner fender liners using only new hardware and then lastly the gal's shoes after which you can sit back and admire what you accomplished not to mention that your gal will be much happier too.

Hopefully I did not miss anything

Feel comfortable asking me any questions

Takes care

Shadowman
 

Blue GT

GT Owner
Mar 20, 2007
48
Washington State
Another cooling solution for track days

When racing the Vipers, The vintage A Sedans, and the Sports Racers, I found that when I came in from a race or qualifying, if I ran a high volume fan directed at the radiators while the car was idling the cars would cool down quicker and more evenly. By the same token when preparing for an event, I would run a heater directed at the oil cooler and a fan directed at the radiaor. This would help to heat the oil in the dry sump cars to the same temp as the water. This can be important to avoid "cold sizure". Just me 2 cents... Dan
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 2, 2006
3,979
Dallas, TX
Thanks Shadow, I am swinging by the Ford shop tomorrow for parts. Your advise is always very appreciated. :thumbsup
 
Aug 25, 2006
4,436
Thanks Shadow, I am swinging by the Ford shop tomorrow for parts. Your advise is always very appreciated. :thumbsup

You are welcome and will certainly enjoy the results

The process is low risk for any secondary damage and as I shared can be completed during a methodical Saturday afternoon

Enjoy the process and let me know if I can answer any other questions

Takes care

Shadowman
 

MR2Race

FGT The Velvet Hammer
Apr 6, 2006
304
Northville Mi.
Avant



Short shifting – Is not nearly as fun. But could actually make for decreased lap times.
Max torque is in the 5100 RPM range.

Shadowman- is on target with Vacuum filling the cooling system.
It is the only way. And after you use a good Vacuum filling tool you will not do it any other way on all your cars.

I have had good luck on track running Max A/C windows down?

This engine likes 200 – 235 deg. F
Do not hesitate to take it all the way to 242.
The electronics will stop you from doing any damage.
I know it does not feel right, but really it likes it

The white staining on the burp bottle is a sore spot with me.
In any closed (modern) cooling system. There must be some air space up high in the system. To act like an accumulator. So the expanding coolant volume as a place to expand into as it warm up.

We had the same complaint with our development cars.
I remember doing the math one day after listening to others complain about the white stains on the coolant bottle.
I feel the air space in the top of your coolant reservoir is too small to properly manage the volume increase with heat.


I documented all the on track development testing. I know it’s a pain, but if you search mr2race and look up old posts there are tons of tidbits about cooling stashed away.

The engine problem is complex and simple at the same time.
And I know we could make this car even more robust. With just a bit more development.
 

avant

GT Owner
Apr 22, 2007
76
calgary, canada
Burp Bottle

MR2RACE,

The burp bottle is easy to clean off, but the alternator and associated wire looms located below took me 3 hours to clean!
 

avant

GT Owner
Apr 22, 2007
76
calgary, canada
Shut Down

Will the engine electronically shut down if engine temp becomes dangerously high?