Warped Vents


AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
Well, almost 90 days later from taking the aluminum vent to the maching shop. Remind me why I hate depending with other people...................

Here is the update.

FINALLY got the second prototype back. The vent fits good on the car. The mounting stud alignment needs to be tweaked, so as soon as we fix that, we are in production.

THEY ARE COMING.................. KEEP PRAYING WITH ME SO IT IS SOONER RATHER THAN LATER :biggrin
 
Last edited:

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Well, 30 days later, and an update.

FINALLY got the second prototype back from the machine shop. The vent fit good. The mounting stud alignment needs to be tweaked, so as soon as we fix that, we are in production.

THEY ARE COMING.................. KEEP PRAYING WITH ME :biggrin

Any photos?
 

AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
Any photos?

Here. Of course the left is the unfinished amuminum. The right is an unpainted plastic. You can see we added a couple of fins. Side by side you see it, alone it looks stock.

Going to the mold maker tomorrow to see if stud platforms need to be changed, or if we are set as is. We are close.
 

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CJ428

Farm GT
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
May 21, 2008
1,475
NJ
looks very nice.I would like to have a pair.
 

metalman

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Nov 22, 2006
153
You can see we added a couple of fins.

Curious why you went away from stock and added fins to the louvers? Is this sandcast, diecast or machined?

Thanks,
Tony
 

TEXAS GT

2006 Twin Turbo
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Impressive. Has an approximate price ever been posted?
 

AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
Curious why you went away from stock and added fins to the louvers? Is this sandcast, diecast or machined?

Thanks,
Tony

To not be a direct copy. I think we only added one, and of course that is the difference you see.

The vents are a realtively small need (group size) and I am doing it just to be doing it (I need two sets myself). I am a one man show on this, and didn't want to get into issues of copyright, etc. Unless they are side by side, you don't know there is a difference.

On another thread I had posted images of a couple of difference styles of vents, and the overall response was a more or less direct replacement.

They are sandcast. Die was too expensive to make up (though this has not been cheap). I discussed machined for a while, but there was consensus from a couple of machinists that the final surface, because of the angles in the fins, etc, would not look good. They would have taken on an appearance of the machined a-arms. Nice, but not what you want on the outside of the car.


Impressive. Has an approximate price ever been posted?

Not yet - wanting to get them out cheaper than the plastic replacements. Need to make sure everyone sticks to their prices (casting, maching, powdercoating) before making it final.
 

B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
Looking great Larry! :)
 

SteveA

GT Owner/B.O.D
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 13, 2005
3,697
Sandpoint Id
Very excited!
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,782
Scottsdale, Arizona
Question?

Larry,

Looking at the photo, it appears that some of the gaps between the fins are much wider than others. Will this be addressed before you "go to print"? My car is in need of a set as well. Please meet me in the parking lot of Uncle Sam's restaurant with my black powder coated set at 5 p.m. today. Thanks!

Chip
 

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AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
Sorry Chip. I had your set, but I was late seeing this, so..........

Kidding.

I know the small gap you are talking abot. In fact, we actually discussed it today. Unfortunately, there is not a good fix. The actual fins are slightly thicker than stock so we could get the aluminum to flow. To add a little to that edge and still keep the angle of the fin would basically bring it to a sharp edge, which is what we had to get away from because of the trouble casting something sharp. The eyes are really good at seeing that, but in actuality the gap you are looking at is only about 1 mm more believe it or not.

We looked at the stud placement today, and determined that there is some very minor differences between cars in where the stud holes are in the carbon fibre since the deck lid is an assembled two piece item. We are going to locate the studs to the outside of the feet, which may work on most cars. We figured that the worst case scenario is that the stud holes in the carbon fibre may need to be enlarged just a touch. Our measurements were looking at something like .020 inches (twenty-thousandths) or so, so not much. Naturally when they are in final form, the exact amount is easy to determine, but it is small if at all. We'll see. We were concerned that if we concentrated too much on the stud fix, we would loose the deck lid fit which is very good, so the slight enlarging seemed like the good tradeoff.

Anyway, I have a call in to verify the powdercoating part is still in place, and as soon as the ducks are in a row, the order goes in to start production.

THEY ARE COMING.
 

AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
:banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana :banana

The order is in. We are making the first run of vents.

Still waiting to hear back from the powder coater.

I will work up the final pricing over the weekend and do a post about specifics and prices.

FINALLY. GEEEEEEZZZZZZZ
 

AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
Ready For Production

I am going to post this here just because this is where we have had the warped vent discussion. I will also put a copy in ‘products” so once this moves down the list it doesn’t need to be resurrected.

The order is in to start production of the replacement vents.

They are being sand-cast out of A-356 aluminum, a high quality aluminum. Read that as NO WARP – EVER AGAIN.

They look very good, but do remember that that these are sand-cast, not die cast, so they will not be “perfect”. Main difference will be that sand-cast tends to have a slightly rougher surface, but the surface will look something like the side vents. There may also be some minor imperfections, but nothing significant (I won’t accept those – I will look at each one). The powder coating will hide some of that. The vents are probably an 8 or 9 on a 1 to 10 scale, so unless you are totally a perfectionist and with a magnifying glass, they will be fine. Obviously die cast would be the way to go, if you want to spend many thousands making the die.

The vents will fit as a direct replacement. Because of some individual differences between cars, it may be necessary to slightly enlarge the stud holes that go through the carbon fiber under the vents, an easy and from the top of the car “modification” that will not be noticeable.

Just doing the disclaimers because I want people to be pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed.

The vents will come either powder coated or bare aluminum. The powder coating will be black, probably along the lines of the rear facia as compared to the small side vents (which don’t match anything else – but still need to look at that more closely because if they are too different than the side vents, may look bad). Personally, I am going to leave mine black.

The bare aluminum would be better if you plan on painting them. The bare would also be better if you are a perfectionist and want to clean the metal up even more (maybe with some sanding – polishing and painting).

Unfortunately more expensive than I had hoped, but by the time you get the caster, machinist, coater, VISA charges, shipping etc. in there, all the little stuff adds up. For comparison, retail on new plastic vents is about $386.00 a pair.

Price (shipped) is $498.00 per pair.

Paid forum subscribers can deduct $25.00 for supporting the forum, so if you haven’t paid up, do it now as a direct reduction in vent price. Subscriber price then is $473.00.

Deduct $10.00 from the price if you want the vents bare versus powder coated.

I want to do some pre-orders to make sure about the quantity produced for the first run. The price is based upon an order of at least 200 vents, so a small second order would be more expensive. I will get some extras in the initial order past what seems to be needed for late comers, so I am not sure at this point if it is a one shot deal or not.

If you want a set, I need a $50.00 nonrefundable deposit (sorry about that – last time I did something like this based on general word, I was left over with stuff that people did not pick up) unless I don’t deliver and your deposit will be refunded. Your money is guaranteed.

I will send each person a notice when they are “in” for either final payment or to let you know the balance is being charged at that time. They will be sent with a satisfaction guarantee or return in 5 days minus shipping charges.

Payment can be by check, VISA, or Paypal. The VISA and Paypal will reflect my regular business name.

Send me a Private Message if you want payment details or have questions, and specify (1) how many sets (2) powder coated or bare (3) shipping information (4) screen name and given name.
 

AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
Just an update for those of you that ordered - the first batch is cast and at the machine shop for clean up.

Finally
 

Blue GT

GT Owner
Mar 20, 2007
48
Washington State
Would you let me know what the current status and price of your vents are at this time. Thnak You, Dan Vargus Blue GT
 

jbyrnes

FORD GT OWNER
Mark II Lifetime
Jun 13, 2006
224
Louisville CO
yet another AL. louver option

AZGT,
I've followed through the email tree here and it's obvious you've put alot of time into this project. Hopefully you're getting the response you need to move forward on these louvers. I just wanted to open up yet another option in case you're not getting the interest to get this into production. There's another casting technology that'll give almost die cast quality with almost sand cast costing, even for low quantities. Its silicone-plaster casting usually used for prtotyping but also excellent for production runs for quantities under 100 or so.
A silicone mold would be generated off of the louver, then a urethane master would be cast from the silicone mold and the runners and gates added to it, then a sacrificial plaster mold (2 or more pieces) is poured around the urethane part. The urethane piece is removed and now the molten AL (also 356) is poured in. The advantages to this over sand casting is that wall thicknesses down to .040 can be achieved because of the accurracy of the coring whereas sand casting thickness limits are typically .10-.12in.. Also, the finish is better than 2x finer than sand casting (so almost as good as die casting) so they can be primed for paint or powder coating directly although still likely not pretty enough for a quality anodize finish. The part would be a virtual perfect replica of the original including wall thickness and louver placement accurracy. One drawback (but same as sand casting) is about a 2% shrinkage during cooling - which works out to about .020 per end and .004 per side. I don't think that would be enough to be noticeable. It's not apparent in the sand cast photos at least. The studs can be drilled off center to account for the shrinkage so it'll still mount without needing to open the holes in the inner clamshell. Alternately I can generate a CAD model (no charge) which would be used to create a %102 scale SLA (plastic rapidprototype part) for making the silicone mold so the final cast part would be a perfect fit. However the SLA would cost about $2k so that would add another $100 or so per part. That’s the other drawback: they would be about 2x the cost of the sand cast part. I checked with the local company here (protcast.com) that is experienced with this casting method and they say fab is no problem. If I amortize the non-recurring costs over 20 pcs (10 sets), the cost would be $460 ea. plus my time to final machine and bore/tap/install the studs - say $65 = $525 for 1 bare Al louver. If I guess $15 for shipping, 1 pair would run $1,065 without paint. If the costs are amortized over 50 units (25 sets), the price would lower to $795/pr including shipping, no paint. Like you were saying, I'd be nervous to run that many though without some kind of buyer commitment. Thought I'd put this info out there since this option allows a relatively doable cost even for low quantities and produces a high quality product.
 

AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
Thanks JByrnes, that gives us another option. Sounds like those will be wonderful.

Here is the latest update on the cast aluminum replacement vents.

The “path of difficulty” continues. The machinist is having fits about doing the cleanup work on them. I sure have found it hard to get people to work........

Anyway, I passed the vents around at both the Rally to the Rally dinner in Scottsdale, and the official GT rally dinner in Las Vegas. The question was about delivering the vents “as is” at a reduced price and let the buyer do the clean-up work. The overwhelming response was "yes" because they could be worked to the owners content.

So here is the plan, and this one should work (please God). I have a number of the vents at the machinist. He is going to mill the four sides to make sure they are straight (necessary since they go against straight lines and that would make any wave noticeable), and will tap the mounting holes (6 x 32). The studs will be placed in the centers of the feet, so some modification (enlarging) of the mounting holes may be needed, but since cars are variable, I am not sure how much will need to be done in that area.

The vents will then be sold in that stage of completion. In other words, they will need the flashing cleanup and general surface preparation for painting / powder coating / anodizing / bare.

I have pulled any casting that had significant flaws, so worst case scenario is maybe a pit or two (normal paint prep work) with flashing cleanup. The vents that were passed around are fairly typical.

Remember that since the vents are sand cast, they do have some surface texture. I will try to match vents in terms of that texture since that also varies. What that means is they will probably look somewhat similiar to the side clamshell vents (or some with a little more or less texture) - if you look at those, they are not perfectly smooth. The top vents will be along those lines. It looks fine.

To compensate for the “do it yourself” cleanup, I am able to reduce the vents by a signficant amount that was going towards the machinist and the completion. The vents were priced at $473.00 / $463.00 for powder coated or bare aluminum. The unfinished vents will be $320.00 per bare pair shipped.

The vents will be shipped with a no-question 5 day return privilege. If you don't like what you get, send them back. Those that have ordered (a pm will be sent) can either elect to go with the unfinished vents, or I will gladly send a full refund for any deposits / payments. Those that paid in full will either get all of their money back, or the difference bwteen the original and the revised price.

I think we are finally on a workable path here. Thanks from those of you that have done manufacturing and for the encouraging words.
 

soroush

Ford Gt Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 8, 2007
5,256
Thanks JByrnes, that gives us another option. Sounds like those will be wonderful.

Here is the latest update on the cast aluminum replacement vents.

The “path of difficulty” continues. The machinist is having fits about doing the cleanup work on them. I sure have found it hard to get people to work........

Anyway, I passed the vents around at both the Rally to the Rally dinner in Scottsdale, and the official GT rally dinner in Las Vegas. The question was about delivering the vents “as is” at a reduced price and let the buyer do the clean-up work. The overwhelming response was "yes" because they could be worked to the owners content.

So here is the plan, and this one should work (please God). I have a number of the vents at the machinist. He is going to mill the four sides to make sure they are straight (necessary since they go against straight lines and that would make any wave noticeable), and will tap the mounting holes (6 x 32). The studs will be placed in the centers of the feet, so some modification (enlarging) of the mounting holes may be needed, but since cars are variable, I am not sure how much will need to be done in that area.

The vents will then be sold in that stage of completion. In other words, they will need the flashing cleanup and general surface preparation for painting / powder coating / anodizing / bare.

I have pulled any casting that had significant flaws, so worst case scenario is maybe a pit or two (normal paint prep work) with flashing cleanup. The vents that were passed around are fairly typical.

Remember that since the vents are sand cast, they do have some surface texture. I will try to match vents in terms of that texture since that also varies. What that means is they will probably look somewhat similiar to the side clamshell vents (or some with a little more or less texture) - if you look at those, they are not perfectly smooth. The top vents will be along those lines. It looks fine.

To compensate for the “do it yourself” cleanup, I am able to reduce the vents by a signficant amount that was going towards the machinist and the completion. The vents were priced at $473.00 / $463.00 for powder coated or bare aluminum. The unfinished vents will be $320.00 per bare pair shipped.

The vents will be shipped with a no-question 5 day return privilege. If you don't like what you get, send them back. Those that have ordered (a pm will be sent) can either elect to go with the unfinished vents, or I will gladly send a full refund for any deposits / payments. Those that paid in full will either get all of their money back, or the difference bwteen the original and the revised price.

I think we are finally on a workable path here. Thanks from those of you that have done manufacturing and for the encouraging words.


pm sent
 
H

HHGT

Guest
Thanks JByrnes, that gives us another option. Sounds like those will be wonderful.

Here is the latest update on the cast aluminum replacement vents.

The “path of difficulty” continues. The machinist is having fits about doing the cleanup work on them. I sure have found it hard to get people to work........

Anyway, I passed the vents around at both the Rally to the Rally dinner in Scottsdale, and the official GT rally dinner in Las Vegas. The question was about delivering the vents “as is” at a reduced price and let the buyer do the clean-up work. The overwhelming response was "yes" because they could be worked to the owners content.

So here is the plan, and this one should work (please God). I have a number of the vents at the machinist. He is going to mill the four sides to make sure they are straight (necessary since they go against straight lines and that would make any wave noticeable), and will tap the mounting holes (6 x 32). The studs will be placed in the centers of the feet, so some modification (enlarging) of the mounting holes may be needed, but since cars are variable, I am not sure how much will need to be done in that area.

The vents will then be sold in that stage of completion. In other words, they will need the flashing cleanup and general surface preparation for painting / powder coating / anodizing / bare.

I have pulled any casting that had significant flaws, so worst case scenario is maybe a pit or two (normal paint prep work) with flashing cleanup. The vents that were passed around are fairly typical.

Remember that since the vents are sand cast, they do have some surface texture. I will try to match vents in terms of that texture since that also varies. What that means is they will probably look somewhat similiar to the side clamshell vents (or some with a little more or less texture) - if you look at those, they are not perfectly smooth. The top vents will be along those lines. It looks fine.

To compensate for the “do it yourself” cleanup, I am able to reduce the vents by a signficant amount that was going towards the machinist and the completion. The vents were priced at $473.00 / $463.00 for powder coated or bare aluminum. The unfinished vents will be $320.00 per bare pair shipped.

The vents will be shipped with a no-question 5 day return privilege. If you don't like what you get, send them back. Those that have ordered (a pm will be sent) can either elect to go with the unfinished vents, or I will gladly send a full refund for any deposits / payments. Those that paid in full will either get all of their money back, or the difference bwteen the original and the revised price.

I think we are finally on a workable path here. Thanks from those of you that have done manufacturing and for the encouraging words.

pm sent
 

spddmnjay

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 14, 2008
422
Alberta, Canada
Thanks JByrnes, that gives us another option. Sounds like those will be wonderful.

Here is the latest update on the cast aluminum replacement vents.

The “path of difficulty” continues. The machinist is having fits about doing the cleanup work on them. I sure have found it hard to get people to work........

Anyway, I passed the vents around at both the Rally to the Rally dinner in Scottsdale, and the official GT rally dinner in Las Vegas. The question was about delivering the vents “as is” at a reduced price and let the buyer do the clean-up work. The overwhelming response was "yes" because they could be worked to the owners content.

So here is the plan, and this one should work (please God). I have a number of the vents at the machinist. He is going to mill the four sides to make sure they are straight (necessary since they go against straight lines and that would make any wave noticeable), and will tap the mounting holes (6 x 32). The studs will be placed in the centers of the feet, so some modification (enlarging) of the mounting holes may be needed, but since cars are variable, I am not sure how much will need to be done in that area.

The vents will then be sold in that stage of completion. In other words, they will need the flashing cleanup and general surface preparation for painting / powder coating / anodizing / bare.

I have pulled any casting that had significant flaws, so worst case scenario is maybe a pit or two (normal paint prep work) with flashing cleanup. The vents that were passed around are fairly typical.

Remember that since the vents are sand cast, they do have some surface texture. I will try to match vents in terms of that texture since that also varies. What that means is they will probably look somewhat similiar to the side clamshell vents (or some with a little more or less texture) - if you look at those, they are not perfectly smooth. The top vents will be along those lines. It looks fine.

To compensate for the “do it yourself” cleanup, I am able to reduce the vents by a signficant amount that was going towards the machinist and the completion. The vents were priced at $473.00 / $463.00 for powder coated or bare aluminum. The unfinished vents will be $320.00 per bare pair shipped.

The vents will be shipped with a no-question 5 day return privilege. If you don't like what you get, send them back. Those that have ordered (a pm will be sent) can either elect to go with the unfinished vents, or I will gladly send a full refund for any deposits / payments. Those that paid in full will either get all of their money back, or the difference bwteen the original and the revised price.

I think we are finally on a workable path here. Thanks from those of you that have done manufacturing and for the encouraging words.

pm sent :thumbsup