Does anyone know if the stock air filter are the cheap paper type? Or, did Ford use a better quality filter in the GT? I'm thinking of getting the two K & N filters as replacements. Any thoughts? Should I expect any performance gains?
Stock Air Filter
- Thread starter PHXGT
- Start date
Oiled Air Filters
Be very careful with any oiled air filter, like K&N. They do let in more air, most of the time, (initially) but...the oil can get carried off the filter and gunks up mass air flow sensors.
I've had many cars and used K&N and only one time did I find I put too much oil on the filter and did have som MAS problems.Yet, I've read about this probkem by other users too.
Also, after a while, the oiled filter gathers a fair amount of dust and tests show it can actually reduce flow over time compared to simply renewing a good paper or syn fiber filter.
Your choice.
Be very careful with any oiled air filter, like K&N. They do let in more air, most of the time, (initially) but...the oil can get carried off the filter and gunks up mass air flow sensors.
I've had many cars and used K&N and only one time did I find I put too much oil on the filter and did have som MAS problems.Yet, I've read about this probkem by other users too.
Also, after a while, the oiled filter gathers a fair amount of dust and tests show it can actually reduce flow over time compared to simply renewing a good paper or syn fiber filter.
Your choice.
Oiler Filters
I've gotten them both ways. I recall most came pre-oiled in a sealed bag. After a year or so you are supposed to wash them out well, dry and re-oil. YOu need to do this, as the oiled units do pick up a lot of dust and dirt and will clog over time. The cleaning kit and new oil can be bought from K&N or in a good auto store. That's when you need to be very careful about how much oil you spray back on the filter. Too much and you may cause yourself problems.
Good luck. :thumbsup
I've gotten them both ways. I recall most came pre-oiled in a sealed bag. After a year or so you are supposed to wash them out well, dry and re-oil. YOu need to do this, as the oiled units do pick up a lot of dust and dirt and will clog over time. The cleaning kit and new oil can be bought from K&N or in a good auto store. That's when you need to be very careful about how much oil you spray back on the filter. Too much and you may cause yourself problems.
Good luck. :thumbsup
analogdesigner
GT Owner
Air filter tests
I have always felt that K & N products are a complete waste of money. They never show the tests that really matter!
The link below will shed some light on this subject.
Happy New Year to all! Jay
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
I have always felt that K & N products are a complete waste of money. They never show the tests that really matter!
The link below will shed some light on this subject.
Happy New Year to all! Jay
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
Last edited:
analogdesigner said:
Boy, I hope there is some reason these test results came out like this. The caterpillar twin diesels on boat came stock with K&N air filters, as do all caterpillar engines. As you know caterpillar is the largest producer on diesel work engines in the world. You think the would have similar test equipment and a competent reseach arm. Maybe I should consider changing to the AC Delco ones. :confused
FGT4me
GT Owner
- Oct 19, 2005
- 95
Jay,
I'm no expert at interpreting graphs but don't they show that K&N is the least restrictive and therefore lets the most dirt pass through (and consequently retains the least)?
I don't believe that this is in question by most users of this product (or at least it shouldn't be).
I believe that users of these filters realize that they sacrifice filtering capability for more air flow... I could be wrong.
I'm no expert at interpreting graphs but don't they show that K&N is the least restrictive and therefore lets the most dirt pass through (and consequently retains the least)?
I don't believe that this is in question by most users of this product (or at least it shouldn't be).
I believe that users of these filters realize that they sacrifice filtering capability for more air flow... I could be wrong.
I suppose the next questions should be . Has anyone used k&ns in their gts'? Have they had any issues with the oil in them? (I had also heard about problems described above- and therefore hesitant to get k&ns'.) Any improvement noted from the change (at least perceived)?
My earlier experiences were mixed - on an Mr-2 turbo the k&n worked very well - On the Mustang it really made no difference. By the way that little Toyota was a really fun car- Hmm- one day I may get another one of those little suckers. Ok - enough of my ranting on - experienced ones gives us some imput.
Happy New Year--- Manny #1418
My earlier experiences were mixed - on an Mr-2 turbo the k&n worked very well - On the Mustang it really made no difference. By the way that little Toyota was a really fun car- Hmm- one day I may get another one of those little suckers. Ok - enough of my ranting on - experienced ones gives us some imput.
Happy New Year--- Manny #1418
guywwagner
GT Owner
K&N Filters
I've been using K&N filters for about 10 years.I have a set of new ones for my GT in the box waiting to go on.I've probably had them in ten vehicles,including some severe service.I always check downsteam of any air filter I remove for dirt.I've never been able to find anything that gets by the K&N filters and some of them have been extremely dirty when removed.I know the test results do not look good, but I'll keep using them.
Guy
I've been using K&N filters for about 10 years.I have a set of new ones for my GT in the box waiting to go on.I've probably had them in ten vehicles,including some severe service.I always check downsteam of any air filter I remove for dirt.I've never been able to find anything that gets by the K&N filters and some of them have been extremely dirty when removed.I know the test results do not look good, but I'll keep using them.
Guy
samthejeepman
Permanent Vacation
i noticed the same problem that stu mentioned
on my injected vehicles, it seems that the mass flow sensors always had a build up of oil gunk(with dust) on the inner grids, directly related to the oil from the k & n's
i don't use those filters on my injected vehicles any longer, but i do swear by them on my older collector cars with carbs
jmo
sam
#1451 red/white
on my injected vehicles, it seems that the mass flow sensors always had a build up of oil gunk(with dust) on the inner grids, directly related to the oil from the k & n's
i don't use those filters on my injected vehicles any longer, but i do swear by them on my older collector cars with carbs
jmo
sam
#1451 red/white
analogdesigner
GT Owner
K & N and other high flow air filters, the bottom line...
The bottom line is that filtering air is another classic engineering tradeoff. Yes, a fresh K & N filter will flow more air initially. After awhile, the accumulated dirt particles will prevent this filter from flowing as efficiently as a stock paper style filter. This initial higher airflow comes at another price as it lets more dirt through and into your engine. The question is whether these small dirt particles will cause significant wear to your engine? I do not remember seeing anything on K & N's website on actual filter quality test results or engine life improvements. There is probably an article out there on dirt particle size versus relative engine wear.
Oil filters should have the same basic tradeoffs.
More hyped products are the Teflon based oil additives (Slick 50). This stuff is guaranteed to ruin a good engine. Teflon should never be used above 200 degrees C.
I am guilty of buying both of these products in the past. Fortunately over the decades, I have a better knowledge of science and physics.
In closing, I am sure that K & N air filters do an adequate job, however for optimal engine life, I will continue to use an OEM paper filter.
Jay
The bottom line is that filtering air is another classic engineering tradeoff. Yes, a fresh K & N filter will flow more air initially. After awhile, the accumulated dirt particles will prevent this filter from flowing as efficiently as a stock paper style filter. This initial higher airflow comes at another price as it lets more dirt through and into your engine. The question is whether these small dirt particles will cause significant wear to your engine? I do not remember seeing anything on K & N's website on actual filter quality test results or engine life improvements. There is probably an article out there on dirt particle size versus relative engine wear.
Oil filters should have the same basic tradeoffs.
More hyped products are the Teflon based oil additives (Slick 50). This stuff is guaranteed to ruin a good engine. Teflon should never be used above 200 degrees C.
I am guilty of buying both of these products in the past. Fortunately over the decades, I have a better knowledge of science and physics.
In closing, I am sure that K & N air filters do an adequate job, however for optimal engine life, I will continue to use an OEM paper filter.
Jay
Last edited:
analogdesigner
GT Owner
New Amsoil air filter, any knowledge on this one?
Amsoil has a new air filter technology that looks promising.
http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/2006/pr_EaAU.aspx
If this really works as claimed, we should get Amsoil to produce them for the GT. As some of you may know, I will not put K & N air filters on any of my cars because they do not filter small dirt particles as well as stock filters.
I had written to Amsoil regarding ISO 5011 testing of their new filter and below is a response that I have just received:
Dear Jay:
Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns.
In response to your inquiry, the main advantage AMSOIL is promoting with the new Ea air filters is that they are more efficient, with some advantages in air flow over cellulose filters and, in fact, over TS as well. If we went head to head with K&N we would most likely not flow quite as well, but better than cellulose filters. To better serve our dealers and customers, AMSOIL partnered with worldwide leaders in filtration to develop the EaA nanofiber filter. The EaA filter offers higher efficiency and better airflow than foam, oil wetted gauze, and conventional cellulose filters. The EaA filters offer less restriction than the foam filters, at 200 scfm the restriction is 0.8 inches of water, while the foam filter is 1.1 inches of water, the oil wetted gauze filter is 0.6 inches of water at the same volume of air flow. Using SAE J726 (ISO5011) test protocol and employing a mixture of A2 Fine Test Dust and carbon black to simulate on highway driving conditions, and cumulative efficiency is 99.5%. Oil wetted gauze filters, when tested with course test dust, have an efficiency of 99.1% while the foam filter was 99.5%. This testing was conducted at Southwest Research Institute.
AMSOIL offers an extensive line of OEM replacement filters, and are planning to add more in the future. You input is valuable in this process.
Thank you again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Richard Holappa, Jr.
Technical Product Manager: Filtration
The accuracy of this e-mail response is dependent upon the information provided. AMSOIL INC. is not responsible for wrong recommendations that were based on inaccurate or incomplete information.
Amsoil has a new air filter technology that looks promising.
http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/2006/pr_EaAU.aspx
If this really works as claimed, we should get Amsoil to produce them for the GT. As some of you may know, I will not put K & N air filters on any of my cars because they do not filter small dirt particles as well as stock filters.
I had written to Amsoil regarding ISO 5011 testing of their new filter and below is a response that I have just received:
Dear Jay:
Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns.
In response to your inquiry, the main advantage AMSOIL is promoting with the new Ea air filters is that they are more efficient, with some advantages in air flow over cellulose filters and, in fact, over TS as well. If we went head to head with K&N we would most likely not flow quite as well, but better than cellulose filters. To better serve our dealers and customers, AMSOIL partnered with worldwide leaders in filtration to develop the EaA nanofiber filter. The EaA filter offers higher efficiency and better airflow than foam, oil wetted gauze, and conventional cellulose filters. The EaA filters offer less restriction than the foam filters, at 200 scfm the restriction is 0.8 inches of water, while the foam filter is 1.1 inches of water, the oil wetted gauze filter is 0.6 inches of water at the same volume of air flow. Using SAE J726 (ISO5011) test protocol and employing a mixture of A2 Fine Test Dust and carbon black to simulate on highway driving conditions, and cumulative efficiency is 99.5%. Oil wetted gauze filters, when tested with course test dust, have an efficiency of 99.1% while the foam filter was 99.5%. This testing was conducted at Southwest Research Institute.
AMSOIL offers an extensive line of OEM replacement filters, and are planning to add more in the future. You input is valuable in this process.
Thank you again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Richard Holappa, Jr.
Technical Product Manager: Filtration
The accuracy of this e-mail response is dependent upon the information provided. AMSOIL INC. is not responsible for wrong recommendations that were based on inaccurate or incomplete information.
analogdesigner said:
SLF360
GT Owner
K&N vs OEM
Guys,
I have K&N's on my 3412E Cats. Fine. I would however advise to not change the OEM's out to K&N's, as it will do absolutely nothing for the engine. You are looking at a supercharged engine, where the charger sucks the air in and compresses it. Even taking the filters off completely, will not improve performance noticably. IF this would be an ambient aspirated engine, that would be different, as the differences in flow resistance upstream would influence airloading of the engines. Even if there is a small difference before the charger, it will be not noticable post it.
Save your money, overoiled filters can indeed mess up the MAS, but that would need to be quite rare by all chances I reckon. Stick with OEM's is my call on this.
Guys,
I have K&N's on my 3412E Cats. Fine. I would however advise to not change the OEM's out to K&N's, as it will do absolutely nothing for the engine. You are looking at a supercharged engine, where the charger sucks the air in and compresses it. Even taking the filters off completely, will not improve performance noticably. IF this would be an ambient aspirated engine, that would be different, as the differences in flow resistance upstream would influence airloading of the engines. Even if there is a small difference before the charger, it will be not noticable post it.
Save your money, overoiled filters can indeed mess up the MAS, but that would need to be quite rare by all chances I reckon. Stick with OEM's is my call on this.
AMER SPD
GT Owner
After asking around. Here are the comments I received back.
"The Ford GT actually uses a pair of high flow paper air cleaner elements.
The flow test numbers for the Ford GT air cleaner system were very very good. I would not expect any performance gains by changing elements............. "
After hearing this, I'll save the money and probably stay with the stock air filter.
If anyone has dyno info with HP gains by just changing the Air Filter, I'd be happy to send it to my Ford contacts.
Charles
"The Ford GT actually uses a pair of high flow paper air cleaner elements.
The flow test numbers for the Ford GT air cleaner system were very very good. I would not expect any performance gains by changing elements............. "
After hearing this, I'll save the money and probably stay with the stock air filter.
If anyone has dyno info with HP gains by just changing the Air Filter, I'd be happy to send it to my Ford contacts.
Charles
analogdesigner
GT Owner
Overall engine life also
SLF360 comments are right on since our supercharger has very high volumetric efficiency. So I can understand why a higher flowing air filter will do little for increased performance.
I think that another one of my original concerns about air filter performance and quality revolved around overall engine life. If a K & N air filter allows more dirt particles (almost 10 times more) into you intake system, how will this affect overall engine life? (Refer to the "Accumulative Gain" graph) at: http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
This whole K & N "thing" started with me about 15-20 years ago when professional race car drivers that I knew quit using them. This was because near the ending of the race, they were losing too much horsepower due to the higher restriction once the filter had accumulated too much airborne dirt from the track. At first, I was skeptical about their claims. Now after close analysis of that excellent filter test, it completely validates their claims.
The only claims that I could find about K & N's air filtering tests, is that they use the easier (my opinion only, since the ISO 5011 is much more "bastard" of a test) "SAE J726 procedure, which uses dirt particle sizes from 5.5 microns to 176 microns." They claim that the majority of engine wear is caused by dirt particles ranging from 10 to 20 microns in size. (I cannot locate any data proving this as perhaps larger sized dirt particles may eventually get picked up by the oil filter).
So, as I mentioned earlier, it could boil down to engine life.
Now, what I feel really matters is a new product that I have designed and have been testing for quite a while which minimizes the collapsing of the flexible air inlet coupling hose. At high engine RPM's, this should provide more flow improvement than any aftermarket air filter. Please note image below of what can occur at high RPM's with a very warm (heat soaked) engine compartment. I will have more on this later in the week as right now I am trying to ship the low-profile shifter balls. Jay
SLF360 comments are right on since our supercharger has very high volumetric efficiency. So I can understand why a higher flowing air filter will do little for increased performance.
I think that another one of my original concerns about air filter performance and quality revolved around overall engine life. If a K & N air filter allows more dirt particles (almost 10 times more) into you intake system, how will this affect overall engine life? (Refer to the "Accumulative Gain" graph) at: http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
This whole K & N "thing" started with me about 15-20 years ago when professional race car drivers that I knew quit using them. This was because near the ending of the race, they were losing too much horsepower due to the higher restriction once the filter had accumulated too much airborne dirt from the track. At first, I was skeptical about their claims. Now after close analysis of that excellent filter test, it completely validates their claims.
The only claims that I could find about K & N's air filtering tests, is that they use the easier (my opinion only, since the ISO 5011 is much more "bastard" of a test) "SAE J726 procedure, which uses dirt particle sizes from 5.5 microns to 176 microns." They claim that the majority of engine wear is caused by dirt particles ranging from 10 to 20 microns in size. (I cannot locate any data proving this as perhaps larger sized dirt particles may eventually get picked up by the oil filter).
So, as I mentioned earlier, it could boil down to engine life.
Now, what I feel really matters is a new product that I have designed and have been testing for quite a while which minimizes the collapsing of the flexible air inlet coupling hose. At high engine RPM's, this should provide more flow improvement than any aftermarket air filter. Please note image below of what can occur at high RPM's with a very warm (heat soaked) engine compartment. I will have more on this later in the week as right now I am trying to ship the low-profile shifter balls. Jay
Last edited: