State of the Union speech - the missing article!

[dbk]

War is war, ugly, brutal and always takes huge collateral damage...

Precisely. Whether you lean left or right, this is the absolute reality. If you pull the trigger once, you have to be prepared to go all the way, to places the most hardened individuals find intolerable. There is no other possibility.

 

[Awsum GT]

Can't we all just get along? If we could only sit down and talk with the terrorist, I'm sure we could work out a deal. If we would just pull out... everything will go back to normal and the killing will increase. We will be much safer here at home... and maybe we can even fight the war on terror right here at home.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Hmmmm, me thinks I have been somewhat painted with an inaccurate brush.:frown . To address any of the personal attacks that were deleted would be pointless, but...
I am certainly not the liberal that Chip describes. My point is it seems that many thought the Iraq war could be done on the cheap. Coming from a family with a long history of military service, and having served myself, I am a firm believer in the 'Powell Doctrine" that you only go to war with such overwhelming force that victory is assured. Not the comments of Rumsfiled saying " you go to war with what you have." If you are going to commit your people to war, asking them to possibly die, then give them EVERYTHING they need.
I was not speaking of just financial assets when I said " bankrupting our children's futures". I do see unprecedented waste in the rebuilding efforts. So much so that it is appalling. I also meant the political status and or clout that our country has lost throughout the world.
I was with Bush on going into Afghanistan but I disagree that invading Iraq has made us safer here. There is just no connection between Iraq and terrorism. As I have nothing to hide I think wiretapes and surveillance of suspects in this country and anywhere else is reasonable and just. If an innocent life can be saved by using torture than do it. I believe that someone who has no regard for life forefits any consideration of their own.
I believe in the power of this country to grant anyone their dreams who work for it. Small business is the backbone of that freedom. I will admit that I fear mega corporations driving them out though(Walmart). I do not believe in a free handout because you are too lazy to make something of yourself. I live near Detroit for Godssake, don't you think I see enough of that? To write a check or wear a ribbon does not mean you have really embraced a belief, it can be just a passing statement, a fad.
I would have fought the Germans as my Grandfather did, I do not believe in endless negotiaton. And not that Chip would have known, but having lost our only child, it would not be possible for him to goosestep under a swastika.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions and I am willing to address any other questions:thumbsup

Well, Sir, you basically recited (origionally) the "lefty" mantra, "Bush lied. Bush lied to get us into Iraq". The only thing you DIDN'T mention was the usual, "no WMD's were found" stuff that usually follows that. AND BEATING THAT DEAD HORSE IS GETTING OLD. Let me remind you that EVERY - EVERY - creditable intel outfit IN THE WORLD said Saddam HAD "W.M.D.'s"! ALL OF 'EM! EVERY ONE! Yet you guys keep GRINDING on the, "BUSH LIED", thing! Well, Sir! If Bush lied, so did "Pooty-Poot", Blair, and the rest! EVERYBODY was "in" on Bush's sinister plot! ENCLUDING WILLIAM CLINTON, JOHN KERRY, and TEDDY KENNEDY, et al, who all said themselves that Saddam was a, "clear & present danger", to the U.S.! (Oh, yes, yes. "They we're given false info". Ya. Right.)

And, may I also remind you, Sir, that Saddam HIMSELF did not do one dadgumed thing to quell the idea that he had WMD's either! If you remember, he screwed with UN inspectors on a daily basis! (Personally, I don't think those clowns could find snow if they fell out of a ski lift - but, that's just my personal opinion.)

If Bush HADN'T moved against Saddam (after Saddam had commited SEVENTEEN VIOLATIONS OF U.N. RESOLUTIONS by the way!), and Saddam had HAD WMD's and had USED 'em - OR GIVEN TO SOMEONE ELSE WHO DID - YOU AND YOUR ILK WOULD BE SCREAMING: "BUSH STOOD BY & DID NOTHING WHEN THE WHOLE WORLD TOLD HIM SADDAM HAD WMD'S!!!! (If Bush walked on water, you guys would say,"Yuh SEE!!!! We TOLD you he couldn't swim!!!!!")

As to your present statement that there was/is no terrorism "connection" to Iraq: how, then, do you explain the fact that the clown who orchestrated the "Achille Laro"(sp?) cruise ship attack was found in Iraq? Or the fact that a hospital there in Baghdad OWNED BY ONE OF SADDAM'S SONS treated that terrorist bigshot ('can't remember his name) who was wounded in Afganistan fighting US troops? (the guy who's leg was amputated. whomever he was.) Or the fact Saddam PAID $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers??? Or the fact there were terrorists TRAINING in Iraq? Please! Do the math! IN IRAQ NOTHING - NOTHING - WENT ON THAT SADDAM DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT AND DIDN'T, THEREFORE, HAVE HIS PERSONAL STAMP OF APPROVAL! THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS! Please! Smell the coffee!

Bush's biggest screw up was figuring the Iraqi people would have the backbone to "drop a dime" on the terrorists in their midst. That WAS a "logical" assumption to make ...when dealing with rational people. That's pbly the reason (or at least one of them) that we didn't go in there with 200K troops in the 1st place. But ... well, let me leave it there except to say I cannot BELIEVE we've been training those people for, what, 4 years now and they STILL "arn't ready" to get the job done themselves?:frown Glaciers move faster than that... But, that's all "Monday morning quarterbacking" now.

I will, & DO, applaud your statements on wiretaps, surveillance, free handouts and the like. So, it would appear you arn't a TOTAL loss YET, Sir!:thumbsup There IS hope for yuh! But, you're "all wet" on the Iraq stuff, believe me.

I won't even get into the, "If we pull out, here's what'll happen...", predictions.

---------------------------------

Let me say I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your child. I can't think of anything in this world more devastating to a parent. 'Cannot imagine how one would even get through something like that. My sincerest sympathies to you and your Mrs. And I know EVERYBODY here on The Forum echos that, Sir.


'Pockets

 

[Mad Max]

Thank you for your hope, I am still trying to find my center on all these issues.:willy
Have you read State of Denial by Bob Woodward. Honestly I have no idea on his politics, be he a liberal or conservattive or what. But he points out what David Kay, the Chief Weapons Inspector said. The reason everyone was SO SURE there were WMDs was....Hussien wanted EVERYBODY to believe he had them!!. It was a way to hold advantage over all his enemies, the Kurds, Shiites, fellow Sunni, Iran,and Turks. It was his way to hold power when he was in minority. It seems he got rid of them following Gulf War 1 but behaved as if he still had them.
Again I feel that I did not clearly state my reasons for now questioning this war. They lie more with the handling of the post war plans (that is the lies I refer to) and the treatment of the men fighting and the dead (no photos of caskets, caskets shipped as freight, lack of proper protection, armor, number of soldiers)
Don't get me wrong Hussien was an animal that deserved to be put down. Example, to be a personal bodyguard of Saddam you had to kill someone from a rival tribe or village, then kill someone from your oown tribe or village. That way there are 2 vendettas against you. The ONLY place you are safe? With Saddam.:ack

 

[HHGT]

This is a not a traditional war by any measure and people need to wake up to this fact. This is a religious war and no one anticipated this including our miltary.

We, the United States need to wake up to this fact and stop pussy footing around political correctness. I said it before and I will say it again, the liberal way of life is erroding this country faster than any other infectious disease.

... and oh BTW, if this religious war did not happen in Iraq, it would have happened here on our soil and that is what most Democraps are in denial of.

 

[HHGT]

Here is some online resources for HLS

Online Sources/Websites for Homeland Security
/Terrorism Research

Revised: 25 January 2007
The following resource list contains websites to research terrorism and homeland security related issues. The listed URL’s are hyperlinks to the websites.

Ag Security
http://www.ag-security.com

This website provides information, articles and links pertaining to agro- terrorism and food related security issues.

Al Qaeda Training Manual
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/manualpart1.html

http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/manualpart1_1.pdf#search="al qaeda %20training%20manual%20%22

These sites provide translated excerpts from the Al Qaeda Training Manual.

Anti-Defamation League
http://www.adl.org/

This site provides information on most terrorist groups with detailed information relating to domestic terrorist and extremist groups and leaders. This site also provides a resource to identify extremist signs, symbols and tattoos.

Army War College Library
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/library/bibs/terror01.htm

This site contains a selected terrorism bibliography ranging from 1999 to present.

CATO Institute
http://www.cato.org/defense-studies/index.html

This site has information relating to military readiness, terrorism, United Nations, NATO, war powers and weapons systems, homeland security and intelligence information links.

Center for American Progress: The Terrorism Index
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=1826603

This website contains research relating to national security and issues surrounding international and domestic terrorism.

Center for Defense Information
http://www.cdi.org/

This website contains information on conventional arms issues, defense and foreign policy, military strategy and regional / country affairs.

Center for Nonproliferation Studies
http://cns.miis.edu/research/wtc01/terrwmd.htm
http://cns.miis.edu/research/wtc01/alqaida.htm

This site provides information and analysis relating to terrorism with a focus on the nonproliferation weapons of mass destruction. The second link is Al-Qaida specific.

Central Intelligence Agency
http://www.cia.gov/terrorism/

This site contains excerpt compilations and references relating to global terrorism and homeland defense.

Combating Terrorism Center at West Point
http://www.ctc.usma.edu/harmony_docs.asp

This site utilizes a highly experienced staff to provide in-depth information relating to terrorism, counterterrorism, homeland security and WMD.

Congressional Research Service Reports for the People
http://www.opencrs.com/

This research site contains links to congressional reports relating to homeland security, terrorism and related issues.

Council on Foreign Relations
http://www.terrorismanswers.org/home/
http://cfrterrorism.org/index

Two comprehensive sites in a question/answer format relating to international terrorist groups and incidents.

Counterterrorism Blog
http://www.counterterror.typepad.com

A multi-expert blog dedicated to counterterrorism issues providing real time information about terrorism cases and policy developments.

Defense and the National Interest
http://www.d-n-i.net/index.html

This site is intended to be a resource for all citizens concerned with the roles of armed forces in the modern world. The stated purpose of the site is to “help create a more effective national defense against the types of threats we will likely face during the first decades of the new millennium.”

Defense Department
http://www.defendamerica.mil/index.html

A Defense Department site featuring news, stories, updates and photos relating to America’s war on terrorism.

Department of Defense (DOD)
http://www.defenselink.mil/

U.S. DOD site featuring information relating to the war on terror, homeland defense, news products, definitions and press resources.

Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
http://www.dhs.gov/index.shtm

A comprehensive site with homeland security components including: Information Sharing and Analysis, Prevention and Protection, Preparedness and Response and Research.

Extremist Groups
http://www.extremistgroups.com

This site features investigative research specialists with links to intelligence, investigative and terrorism issues and strategies.

Federal Bureau of Investigation
http://www.fbi.gov/

This site features Most Wanted Terrorists and other resources for law enforcement and community groups on terrorism.

Federation of American Scientists
http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?formAction=325&projectId=8

This site includes strategic security and information technology for learning and current and archive research relating to the war on terrorism.

Find Law: Legal News and Commentary
http://news.findlaw.com/

This site provides a search engine linked to a database of terrorism legal cases including court documents, decisions and transcripts.

Foreign Policy Research Institute: Center on Terrorism, Counter-Terrorism, and Homeland Security
http://www.fpri.org/research/terrorism/

A research site with strategies to counter terrorism including advanced computer technology, scenarios and storyboarding, simulation, modeling and organizational change.

Global Incident Map
http://www.globalincidentmap.com/home.php

This web site provides a global display of terrorism and other suspicious activity which is refreshed every 300 seconds.

GlobalSecurity.org
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/index.html

A research site linked to a database with news, systems and policies relating to homeland security.

Global Terror Alert
http://www.globalterroralert.com

A unique website with the latest alerts, special reports and terrorism in media with links for audio and transcript downloads.

Heritage Foundation
http://www.heritage.org/Research/HomelandDefense/index.cfm

This research site features facts and figures, articles and recommendations relating to homeland security.


Homeland Security Institute
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/

This site provides information to evaluate homeland security systems/ technologies and includes a Newsletter with articles, publications and conferences and a Journal featuring book reviews and commentaries relating to homeland security.

Intelligence Resource Program (Federation of American Scientists)
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/index.html

This site provides web links for the World Intelligence and Security Agencies.

International Relations Center: Foreign Policy in Focus
http://www.foreignpolicy-infocus.org/indices/topics/terrorism.html

A research site containing reports, briefs and global affairs commentaries from contributing authors.

Institute for Counter-Terrorism
http://www.ict.org.il/

A research web site containing articles, news, commentary and links relating to international terrorism from a range of contributors, including Israeli experts on terrorism.
Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/default.htm

A website containing special informational bulletins on marketing terrorism with links to article archives. Includes translations in Arabic and Hebrew.

International Monetary Fund http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/aml.htm

A site with articles and questions/answers relating to the IMF and the Fight against Money Laundering and the Financing of Terrorism.

International Relations and Security Network (ISN)
http://www.isn.ch/news/sw/

A research website with news and current affairs, publications, education and training information to enhance global security.

Interpol
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Terrorism/default.asp

Interpol’s website with facts and figures relating to their involvement in the fight against international terrorism.

Justice Department http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/trainingmanual.htm

This DOJ site contains the translated information from the Al Qaeda Training Manual.

MI5: The Security Service
http://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/Page545.html

This is the official website of the UK Security Service and provides information relating to threats, espionage and security measures.

Middle East Media Research Institute
http://www.memri.org/index.html

This site explores the Middle East through the region's media including analysis of political, ideological, intellectual, social, cultural, and religious trends.

Militia Watchdog
http://www.militia-watchdog.org/default.asp

This site contains an archive of research from 1995-2000 relating to domestic militia groups.

Monterey Institute of International Studies: Center for Nonproliferation Studies (CNS)
http://cns.miis.edu

This website contains information, research and analysis to combat the spread of weapons of mass destruction.

National Criminal Justice Reference Center
http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Topics/Topic.aspx?topicid=160

A research site maintained by the Office of Justice Program, US Department of Justice features articles, publications, products and criminal justice events relating to homeland security.

National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism
http://www.tkb.org/Home.jsp
http://www.mipt.org/

This site provides a comprehensive databank of global terrorism incidents and profiles on terrorist organizations.

National Security Institute
http://www.nsi.org/terrorism.html

This site is dedicated to counterterrorism featuring terrorism legislation, executive orders, terrorism facts and commentary.

National Security Studies Center
http://terrorismexperts.org

This site is maintained by the University of Haifa (Israel) and contains the latest research and public forums about terrorism and terrorists.

NATO Defense against Terrorism Information Node
http://starnet.rta.nato.int/node.asp?node=1

This site provides node access to information pertaining to defense against terrorism interests of NATO elements, member /partner countries.

Naval Postgraduate School
http://web.nps.navy.mil/~library/tgp/tgpndx.htm

This Naval website includes a comprehensive database of terrorist group descriptions and profiles.

Naval Postgraduate School
http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/terrorism.htm

This Naval website contains articles and bibliographies relating to homeland security and terrorism issues.
NYPD Shield Terrorism Weekly http://www.nypd2.org/nyclink/nypd/html/ctb/terrorismweekly.html
This site offers counterterrorism initiatives and weekly informational bulletins as well as links to NYPD’s antiterrorism training programs.




Nuclear Threat Initiative
http://www.nti.org/

This site offers a wide range of information and articles relating to the global threats from nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and terrorism.

Overseas Security Advisory Council (OSAC)
http://www.ds-osac.org/

This site provides information relating to global security issues and timely interchange of information between the Private Sector, the US Department of State and other Government Agencies concerning developments in the overseas security environment.

PBS Frontline
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/network/alqaeda/

This site contains detailed information relating to the Al Qaeda terror network with backgrounds, maps and profiles.

Rand Terrorism and Homeland Security Research Area
http://www.rand.org/research_areas/terrorism/

This comprehensive research site provides findings, projects and complex publications relating to terrorism and homeland security.

Seattle Times
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/nation-world/terroristwithin/

This multi-part news series accurately covered the background and analysis information relating to the Ahmed Ressam (Millennium Bomber) case.
SITE (The Search for International Terrorist Entities) Institute
http://www.siteinstitute.org/index.html

This site features research and investigative activities and “seeks to educate the public about the history, ideology, tactics, and methods of Islamic terrorists.”

South Asia Terrorism Portal
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/terroristoutfits/index.html

This site explores the core areas of research relating to security and conflict in the South Asia region.

Southern Poverty Law Center
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intpro.jsp

This site features an Intelligence Project monitoring hate and extremist groups, which includes maps and profiles on domestic extremist groups.

State Department: Counterterrorism Office
http://www.state.gov/s/ct

This State Department site includes country reports on global terrorism and links to other information relating to homeland security.

State Department: International Security
http://usinfo.state.gov/is/international_security/terrorism.html

This State Department site includes documents, resources and products relating to homeland security.

State Department: Office of Anti terrorism Assistance
http://www.diplomaticsecurity.org

This State Department site provides a listing for antiterrorism specialized training programs for foreign law enforcement officials and civilians.

Terrorism Research Center (TRC)
http://www.terrorism.com/
http://www.homelandsecurity.com/

This research site contains a range of Intel and war reports; country and terrorist group profiles, advisories, web links and terrorist attack archives.

UC Berkeley Library
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/SSEAL/SouthAsia/afghan_US.html

A research site features selected Internet resources relating to Afghanistan and the U.S.

University of Michigan Document Center
http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/usterror.html

This research website includes articles/information on terrorism, terrorist suspects and prosecution, international terrorist groups and other aspects of homeland defense.



University of N. Texas Libraries: Congressional Research Service Reports
http://digital.library.unt.edu/govdocs/crs/search.tkl?type=subject&q= agriculture&q2=liv

This site houses publicly available CRS Reports relating to agriculture.

US Army Foreign Military Studies Office: Operation Iraqi Freedom Documents
http://70.169.163.24/

This site houses unclassified documents and media captured during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

US Department of Homeland Security
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/odp/exercises.htm

These websites contain a range of information relating to homeland security for first responders, businesses and citizens including research and technologies and threats and protection.

US Department of Homeland Security: Office of Domestic Preparedness
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/odp/welcome.html

This website contains information relating to Homeland Security Preparedness including grants and training, exercises, best practices/lessons learned, news releases and technical assistance.

US Department of State: National Combating Terrorism Research and Development Program
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/rm/2003/24658.htm

This site provides information on countries, regions and international issues pertaining to terrorism.

Search Engines:
Goggle Directory for Terrorism Research
http://www.google.com/Top/Society/Issues/Terrorism/Research_Centers/

This site contains a listing of terrorism-related web links.

University of Albany
http://library.albany.edu/internet/choose.html

This site offers a wide range of search engines for a detailed and customized web search.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Thank you for your hope, I am still trying to find my center on all these issues.:willy
Have you read State of Denial by Bob Woodward. Honestly I have no idea on his politics, be he a liberal or conservattive or what. But he points out what David Kay, the Chief Weapons Inspector said. The reason everyone was SO SURE there were WMDs was....Hussien wanted EVERYBODY to believe he had them!!. It was a way to hold advantage over all his enemies, the Kurds, Shiites, fellow Sunni, Iran,and Turks. It was his way to hold power when he was in minority. It seems he got rid of them following Gulf War 1 but behaved as if he still had them.
Again I feel that I did not clearly state my reasons for now questioning this war. They lie more with the handling of the post war plans (that is the lies I refer to) and the treatment of the men fighting and the dead (no photos of caskets, caskets shipped as freight, lack of proper protection, armor, number of soldiers)
Don't get me wrong Hussien was an animal that deserved to be put down. Example, to be a personal bodyguard of Saddam you had to kill someone from a rival tribe or village, then kill someone from your oown tribe or village. That way there are 2 vendettas against you. The ONLY place you are safe? With Saddam.:ack

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! NOW I see where you were coming from! YUH GOTTA BE MORE "DETAIL SPECIFIC" WHEN DEALIN' WITH SOMEONE WHO'S S-L-O-W, 'MAX!

'Agree with your assessment of Saddam's reasons. Those now are all pretty obvious. BUT, back THEN Bush had to go with what everybody supposedly KNEW. And, logic would have indicated that, had Saddam NOT had the WMD's, he WOULD have said,"Oh oh! I have LOTTSA guns on my borders now because of my posturing. 'Better let the inspectors in & save my butt." BUT, because of all the "bribe" money he was paying to France & Russia (we KNOW that now, too), he doubtless figured that the ATTACK would be prevented by the afore mentioned countries thru their votes in the U.N. Sec. Council, so he had no reason to believe WE weren't bluffing as well. So, France & Russia double crossed HIM as well as us.

But, I STILL don't know what "lies" you're referring to "post invasion" regarding the plans, troops, casket photos, etc. There were definately WRONG ASSUMPTIONS and assessments made regarding events likely to occur "post invasion", but LIES???

Anyway, we could nitpick & debate this 24/7/365. And in the end, you'll believe whatever you wanna believe, and I'll believe WHAT I KNOW!!!!!!:lol
So, lets just drop the whole stupid issue... it's a waste of time anyway!:biggrin

'BACK TO GT'S AND STUFF!

(And all The Forum members said in unison, " 'BOUT TIME, YOU IDIOTS!!!":bored )

'Pockets

 

[Mad Max]

Yes I whole heartedly agree:cheers. It has been spirited, enlightening, and educational. And now I shall return to my anonymous, lurking ways. Cheers to you all. Best Wishes. Maxwell

 

[racegirl]

There is no logical reason why Hilary will win, and there is a chance that she will not even be elected. The majority of the people (women) that will be voting for her will be tree-hugging, girl power types. In past elections, the polls two years before elections have been wrong for the most part. I live in a conservative county with many liberals down by the beach. A few good friends of mine set up a booth (with peace signs and such all over it) with a big banner that said "STOP WOMENS SUFFRAGE". These boys wanted to trick the women liberals into signing a fake petition to stop womens suffrage. Little did these women know that suffrage is the right to vote, not to suffer. They got something like 200 signatures in a little over an hour. This goes to show how unintelligent some of the women that will be voting for Hilary are. If the democrats worried about making their own money as they did about raising our taxes, theyd be billionaires. And dont even get me started on global warming. I wonder how big trucks and SUVs started the last Ice Age before they were even in exsistance. It is a cycle...and the liberals obviously didnt get the memo. In the 40's to 70's there was a theory of "global cooling". The earth cooled off for a few years. Where were the big 10 MPG SUVs then? It's NATURAL...the hippy's should know all about that. I personally do not think that america is ready for a woman president right now...if ever. Nothing against my sex, but we are just too darn moody and unpredictable. Alrighty enough venting for tonight!!! and Awsum GT, I would LOVE to meet Rudi!! :wink

 

[dbk]

If anyone was curious, they always do this "celebrity look alikes" bit at the Pistons games. They show Hillary Clinton's face, and in this very historically blue state, the booing was deafening. :lol

I stick to my guns. She's unelectable.

 

[Empty Pockets]

If anyone was curious, they always do this "celebrity look alikes" bit at the Pistons games. They show Hillary Clinton's face, and in this very historically blue state, the booing was deafening. :lol

I stick to my guns. She's unelectable.

MAN! I SURE HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT!:bow :bow :bow

And if the GOP DOES air all the goofy stuff she's said & done over the years which is CONTRARY to what she's trying to pass herself off as NOW - THAT WILL HAPPEN. SHE'LL BE SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES.

...But, if they DON'T ?????????

 

[Pete S.]

How did this start?
(Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter.) . . .What?

Not really, nor will we in our lifetime probably ever know precisely how humans originally existed. But the hunters and gatherers of the earliest records found in the Kalahari Dessert region had nothing to do with deer in the mountains or lobster in the oceans. There was no “seasonal migration” as seems to be suggested here, more of a territorial movement following the food supply, which in that era and geographical location was never far off. (I am always in awe of the early hunters & gatherers society having more ‘down time’ than I do. But no FGT’s)

I am uncertain as both the republican and democratic parties, having been perverted by those at their financial heads for personal gain, if there is truly any reasonable separation between the two. The same is true of the words liberal and conservative. There doesn’t seem to be, looking at both parties from both a historical and current perspective, ideology specific of either. The only known constant is the realization that those at the top want to stay there.

There seems to be a sense within this forum as appears in posts that one party lies more than the other. Does one get more kickbacks than the other? Is one party or group morally correct by today’s standards? Can the lack of productive output be measured when comparing an out of work welfare recipient to an inheritance created out of work multi-millionaire? Can one party exactly define the “enemy” in the war currently being fought by our military, in something other than a behavioral context? Is it “like me good”, “not like me, bad”? Does anyone know the breakdown of the number of illegally employed immigrants ‘employers’ political affiliation? (Republicans hire other Republicans? Right!) Does one party feel that a strict socialist economy can work? Does one party feel that a strict free market capitalistic economy can work? (They both fail equally and miserably.) And whilst we erode woman’s voting rights, which party should we choose to take us back a few years and see that 12yo age of consent return?

There is a finite number of CEO’s and a finite number of FGT’s. As half a have (?), I want to keep what I have as well. And surprisingly, I have and do work hard, yet no liberal’s seem to be annoyed; I don’t even think any conservatives are annoyed. Well, not because I have been working hard anyway. I probably annoy both labels equally.

In the many talks I have had with the many friends I have here in the Wash. D.C. area, and other areas, of all parties, faiths, income brackets, etc., there is only one single theme that I have ever found that separates the two parties. It’s not abortion, gayness, child abuse, infidelity, defense, religion, education, immigration, health care, insurance, taxation, humanism, terrorism, anti-terrorism, equal rights, civil rights, children’s rights, workers rights, unions. . . or blood type.

It is mainly a simple-understood-by-both-parties-and-all-economists requirement that our current form of economy necessitates about a 3.0% to 5.0% amount of our population to be unemployed at any given time, in order to continue. The difference as I see it between the two parties is how we as a society treat this 3.0% to 5.0% of our population. Aside from that, to me, the parties are identical. All positive and negative definitions and descriptions over the years fit both parties all too well! And I am satisfied that both parties have served me fairly well, compared to other structured societies around the world.

MY2CENTS

Pete S.

Vietnam Era Veteran. Appreciative of the FGTForum
Get out and vote; always support the man (woman?) at the top; for those who may have religion, if only in prayer; for the others, with guarded skepticism.

 

[ChipBeck]

2 more cents

There seems to be a sense within this forum as appears in posts that one party lies more than the other.....yes... Does one get more kickbacks than the other?....yes... Is one party or group morally correct.....yes... by today’s standards?....no, not by todays standards... Can the lack of productive output be measured when comparing an out of work welfare recipient to an inheritance created out of work multi-millionaire?....yeah, the millionair is not suckng on the public tit and is paying taxes.... Can one party exactly define the “enemy” in the war currently being fought by our military, in something other than a behavioral context?....huh??... Does anyone know the breakdown of the number of illegally employed immigrants ‘employers’ political affiliation?....employers don't enforce immigration law....Does one party feel that a strict socialist economy can work?....In 3000 years of recorded economic history, a strict socialist economy has never worked and has failed every time it's been tried....Does one party feel that a strict free market capitalistic economy can work?...yes....(They both fail equally and miserably.)...what are you smoking??... And whilst we erode woman’s voting rights,...???... which party should we choose to take us back a few years and see that 12yo age of consent return?....must be good stuff.....

I have and do work hard, yet no liberal’s seem to be annoyed;....yeah, Democrat class warfare is designed to promote goodwill... I don’t even think any conservatives are annoyed....correct...I probably annoy both labels equally...no, you would annoy a conservarive more.

In the many talks I have had with the many friends I have here in the Wash. D.C. area, and other areas, of all parties, faiths, income brackets, etc., there is only one single theme that I have ever found that separates the two parties. It’s not abortion, gayness, child abuse, infidelity, defense, religion, education, immigration, health care, insurance, taxation, humanism, terrorism, anti-terrorism, equal rights, civil rights, children’s rights, workers rights, unions. . . or blood type.

It is mainly a simple-understood-by-both-parties-and-all-economists requirement that our current form of economy necessitates about a 3.0% to 5.0% amount of our population to be unemployed at any given time, in order to continue......our economy requires no such thing. 3 to 5% of our population is doing drugs, running meth labs, stone drunk, dead lazy, and breaking into your house. If you want to believe that this evil does not exist and that it's your fault that these people aren't managers at the local Walgreens that's fine, you're just wrong. SOME PEOPLE DON"T WANT TO WORK AND YOUR SOCIALISM IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THAT!!

MY2CENTS

Chip

 

[dbk]

Locked homies.

Play nice. We'd all be having a beer after driving GT's for the day if this was in person. :cheers