Shelby AC Cobra Advice

[GTMD]

Hey Everyone,

My father is in the market for a replica Cobra and I'm giving him a hand searching for the ideal car for him. Since I know most of you either own or have interest in Cobras yourselves, you're undoubtedly equipped with a ton more knowledge than we have. I searched the forum archives and read the relevant threads but I didn't see anything real recent so I thought I would post to gather updated car/market info.

He's looking for a 427 MkIII. His interest and budget lie somewhere between a nice firberglass Superformance/Backdraft/etc. car with good originality and possibly up to a higher mileage aluminum CSX continuation car if the price wasn't exorbitant. An FE block as opposed to a Windsor block would be a bonus but not an absolute must. Color isn't critical. Original appearance and condition are most important.

Questions:

1. Any advice on replica brands?
2. Anything we should steer clear of in terms of chassis manufacturer or engine/transmission combination? Any downside to the FE/side oiler platform?
3. Where should we start looking? Possibly on a Cobra forum? Are there any reputable dealers that we should reach out to?
4. Any forum members selling one or do you know of one near you?

I know I could register on a Cobra forum and ask the same advice but I thought I would start with this group first because I know many of you personally and trust your advice.

Thanks in advance!
Seth

 

[Wallyworld]

GTMD -
Not much help on what to buy, but I used to be a member of the NorCal Shelby club. Tons of knowledge in that group and looks like they are having an all Ford show at the Cobra Experience in Martinez on June 3. This would be a good place to network and maybe find a few leads. Hope this helps.

https://www.norcal-saac.org/event-details/9th-annual-cobra-day-all-ford-car-show-1

 

[twobjshelbys]

I just saw this and getting ready to sign off for the evening so I'll just do a few notes.

I owned a Shelby CSX4000 series continuation. It was a wonderful car, but my wife hated it. It's a driver's car and nothing compared to the Ford GT which is a tamed version of the GT40. Think of it like this: The Cobra and GT40 are wolves. The Ford GT is a tame lap dog.

My car was a 4000 series which is the continuation of the 3000 series - the so-called "big block" cars. Honestly, they are untamed monsters. If what you want is a race car then get one. If you want a car you can drive and enjoy and not be AS CONCERNED about getting killed when it goes into oversteer, then get a small block car (originals CSX2000, continuation CSX7000, CSX8000).

Go to the Cobra forum at www.clubcobra.com. A few members here are also Cobra owners and sometimes show up over there.

My wife hated the Cobra because it was too hot, too smelly, too noisy... (If there was a negative adjective that could be applied she would put "TOO" in front of it). I sold it for the GT. If I were to get another sports car it would be a small block Cobra street style (no roll bar, undercar exhaust).

There are lots of replicas but the top tier are Shelby CSX (fiberglass and aluminum), Superformance (fiberglass only) and Kirkham (aluminum only). Early Shelby CSX were built in-house and then with subcontractors. The later fiberglass cars were built in the same factory as Superformance (by Hi-Tech). Kirkham also built the later aluminum CSX cars but in both SPF and Kirkham the Shelby cars and their own were not interchangeable parts-wise. SPF/Shelby fiberglass cars are still different but new aluminum cars are simply a Kirkham with a CSX badge.

All of the above are finished rollers. You install your own drive train (engine/transmission) and it is ready to go.

There are kits though from Factory Five and Backdraft. Both will deliver you pallets of parts that you assemble or can do finished rollers for a price.

ERA sits somewhere in the middle between the CSX and FF/BD world. Lots of people think highly of them and even rate them higher than Shelby/SPF/Kirkham. The few I saw didn't impress me, especially with their use of non-original style frame and suspension.

There are other manufacturers that are pure kits. The quality of all of these truly depends on the builder. I've saw a Shell Valley that was simply gorgeous - better than a SPF - but the talent of the builder was all the difference. At a show next to it was one that had fiberglass mesh tape bleeding through the seams.

Almost all of them are booked years out for just the roller. The best engine builders are also booked years out. Then you have another year to put the power train in. If you're looking for a car to drive and not more motivated by "some assembly required" find an already finished and sorted out car. The best place is www.cobracountry.com but the cobra forum has a for sale section that occasionally gets a good one.

Oh yeah, "sorting out". No matter what path you take - finished roller or kit - they will rendezvou at the powertrain installed step at which point you start the "sorting out" stage. Most people find it can take an entire driving season just to get the car running the way you want. This again suggests finding one that is already finished as your first Cobra.

Oh, your question about dealers: Hillbank Motors is the dealer for both Superformance and Shelby.

Also, consider the Daytona Coupe instead of the open roadster. They can be equipped with A/C and other creature comforts.

Good luck...

Ping me if you want to chat. Phone is faster than typing...

 

[twobjshelbys]

On buying: It is of paramount importance that you not buy a car that you haven't sat in. The important thing to remember is that you do not sit in a Cobra, you wear it (same for a GT40).

The seats and foot boxes vary wildly between manufacturers and even within manufacturers from year to year. The seat is cock-eyed from the pedals and the pedals are extremely close. The first SPF car I tried on the steering wheel hit my lap. The Shelby CSX fit me like a glove.

It's a bad thing to buy a car (without trying it on) only to find it doesn't fit... It's worth an airplane ticket to find out. Plus consider it your PPI.

With regards to Sideoilers: I'd avoid them. They're a conversation piece but a bored/stroked Windsor engine (mine was still a 427) is a more driveable engine. Even then the 427 wanted to be operated at a higher RPM than you will use on the street - I found myself running mostly in third gear to keep the revs up so the cob webs didn't build up in the exhaust That is the reason that I would do a small block car. Don't worry about HP and torque. First, remember that most of the Cobra winning races were in the 289 generation cars, Second at 500+ HP you can't keep the power to the road. There was another 2-fatality crash with a Cobra rear wheels breaking loose last week. Think small block... Most seem to still take them up some to like 330ish cuin and get just a little south of 450hp which is still more than you can safely use.

 

[twobjshelbys]

PPS. Like I said my wife hated the Cobra. I swapped it for the Ford GT because it had air conditioning, a place to plug in her ipod and regular seat belts. There wasn't room in the garage for both so I sold the Cobra. Had I had the space, I would have kept it (for me), and I would still have the Cobra and would still have sold the GT.

 

[twobjshelbys]

Care and feeding: cobras are a 62 race car with a 60s power train. They will rattle and creek and shake when you hit a bump. Engines require more attention than modern engines. Sideoilers leak. Period. (Q: How do you know a side oiler is low on oil? A: It stops leaking.) And that applies to the FE family in general. It might not when you get it but it will. Avoid barn find engines like the plague.

With all that the cobra is a tinkerers dream or nightmare depending on which side of the fence you sit. Stuff will happen that will need attention. If you're a good wrencher you're good to go. If you think you'll take it to a shop you might reconsider if the cobra is right for you and get a Corvette instead

 

[GTMD]

GTMD -
Not much help on what to buy, but I used to be a member of the NorCal Shelby club. Tons of knowledge in that group and looks like they are having an all Ford show at the Cobra Experience in Martinez on June 3. This would be a good place to network and maybe find a few leads. Hope this helps.

https://www.norcal-saac.org/event-details/9th-annual-cobra-day-all-ford-car-show-1

Thanks so much! Great advice. Will do!

 

[GTMD]

Care and feeding: cobras are a 62 race car with a 60s power train. They will rattle and creek and shake when you hit a bump. Engines require more attention than modern engines. Sideoilers leak. Period. (Q: How do you know a side oiler is low on oil? A: It stops leaking.) And that applies to the FE family in general. It might not when you get it but it will. Avoid barn find engines like the plague.

With all that the cobra is a tinkerers dream or nightmare depending on which side of the fence you sit. Stuff will happen that will need attention. If you're a good wrencher you're good to go. If you think you'll take it to a shop you might reconsider if the cobra is tight for you and get a Corvette instead

Wow Tony, thank you so much for the thoughtful reply and tons of great info! All makes sense to me. I think he's after a car that's already been sorted out so a new build or roller isn't what he wants to deal with for all the reasons you mentioned.

We'll be on the lookout for now and if anyone knows of a car we should look at, please let us know. Additionally, if anyone has any further advice, we're all ears.

Thanks again!!

 

[GT@50]

Who made the Cobras that Costco was selling around '95 with a 5.0 and T5?

 

[PJA]

Seth, I am on my second Cobra, both are ERAs. My first one was serial # 101 with a stroked 427 FE cast iron block (482 cu in)...with nitrous.
My second is serial # 714 with an all-aluminum 514 cu in motor built by Danbury Competiton Engines, Mr. Joe LaPine (he built both motors).
I also have a 2007 Z06 & 2006 GT, the Vett is the only car my wife will get in with me.
There are no shakes, rattles, etc, I went and checked out a few kit factories in person and really liked ERAs.
On driving you really feel the road and power with the cobra, it is raw, brute power!
With the GT it kind of sneaks up on you, it lulls you into a false sense of security.
The Vett is take the wife to dinner car.
By the way I am 73 this year.

 

[2112]

If it isn’t a CSX, Kirkham or ERA, it really isn’t a true reflection of the originals.

 

[twobjshelbys]

Eras use mustang and jag bits.

 

[twobjshelbys]

I really do suggest you go to the cobra forum and use search and read the relevant subforum topics. Honestly your question has been asked there hundreds of times by people who don't use search or read the topic lists. I spent a month there reading before I wrote my first topic... as perry mason always says "Objection. Asked and answered"

 

[GTMD]

Seth, I am on my second Cobra, both are ERAs. My first one was serial # 101 with a stroked 427 FE cast iron block (482 cu in)...with nitrous.
My second is serial # 714 with an all-aluminum 514 cu in motor built by Danbury Competiton Engines, Mr. Joe LaPine (he built both motors).
I also have a 2007 Z06 & 2006 GT, the Vett is the only car my wife will get in with me.
There are no shakes, rattles, etc, I went and checked out a few kit factories in person and really liked ERAs.
On driving you really feel the road and power with the cobra, it is raw, brute power!
With the GT it kind of sneaks up on you, it lulls you into a false sense of security.
The Vett is take the wife to dinner car.
By the way I am 73 this year.

Thanks PJA. Good lord, that nitrous set up must be a beast of a car!

 

[GTMD]

If it isn’t a CSX, Kirkham or ERA, it really isn’t a true reflection of the originals.

Thanks. Originality is definitely important.

 

[GTMD]

I really do suggest you go to the cobra forum and use search and read the relevant subforum topics. Honestly your question has been asked there hundreds of times by people who don't use search or read the topic lists. I spent a month there reading before I wrote my first topic... as perry mason always says "Objection. Asked and answered"

Lol. Love it! Will do!

 

[GT@50]

BB Cobra + nitrous + terminal illness = problem solved

 

[extrap]

Shelby Cobra CSX4000 5-Speed

Bid for the chance to own a Shelby Cobra CSX4000 5-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #109,877.

bringatrailer.com

 

[texas mongrel]

I had an ERA for years with a 427FE. Visually, the ERA is an exact copy of the real thing and this gives plusses and minuses. They are beautiful quality and the newer ones use bespoke suspension (older cars had e.g. jag suspension). Legroom is a problem if you are tall. Most of the other fakes stretch the wheelbase a few inches for more room but that of course changes the look. My FE was completely reliable, gobs of torque but did not like revving, the guy who bought mine blew it up in a street race. Sold mine for the same reason as everyone else - my wife hated it. Cobras are like Alfas - everyone should own one once, so they can find out what terrible cars they are!

 

[PanaviaSteveWood]

Keep in mind there have been over 100 recreations since the Cobra was originally produced.

with that in mind it comes down to budget and how the car will be used.

My personal favorite is the superformance cars the MKIII ( 427 Style ) has been made for over 20 years now. If you are looking- the best vintage are SPF 1900 to SPF 2990 with mine being in the mid 2700s

The key things to the superformance of SPF as it were are -- fully independent suspension , factory built chassis , quality parts etc. they are sold as rollers so the engine / transmission is the buyers choice. the best engines are some sort of 351W stroker 402 to 460CI and a single 4BBl carb. as for trans -- usual fare is a TKO 5 speed.

Steve

SUPERFORMANCE Hey Everyone,

My father is in the market for a replica Cobra and I'm giving him a hand searching for the ideal car for him. Since I know most of you either own or have interest in Cobras yourselves, you're undoubtedly equipped with a ton more knowledge than we have. I searched the forum archives and read the relevant threads but I didn't see anything real recent so I thought I would post to gather updated car/market info.

He's looking for a 427 MkIII. His interest and budget lie somewhere between a nice firberglass Superformance/Backdraft/etc. car with good originality and possibly up to a higher mileage aluminum CSX continuation car if the price wasn't exorbitant. An FE block as opposed to a Windsor block would be a bonus but not an absolute must. Color isn't critical. Original appearance and condition are most important.

Questions:

1. Any advice on replica brands?
2. Anything we should steer clear of in terms of chassis manufacturer or engine/transmission combination? Any downside to the FE/side oiler platform?
3. Where should we start looking? Possibly on a Cobra forum? Are there any reputable dealers that we should reach out to?
4. Any forum members selling one or do you know of one near you?

I know I could register on a Cobra forum and ask the same advice but I thought I would start with this group first because I know many of you personally and trust your advice.

Thanks in advance!
Seth