Heal-toe help

[Mark06GT]

I’m trying to learn heal-toe shifting and have some GT-specific questions.

My car is stock (OEM brake pads, original tires, no engine mods, etc.)

1. Is there anything that should be done with the brakes (e.g. front/rear bias adjustment) that would make heal-toe more effective?

2. Are the standard pedals setup for heal-toe or is there some kind of adjustment that would make it easier to work both the brake and gas pedals?

3. Is there a rule of thumb for how many RPMs I should add when down shifting?

4. Do the gears involved make a difference in how many RPMs to add? e.g. is more (or less) gas added when shifting between 3rd and 2nd than when shifting from 4th to 3rd?

5. How does speed affect the number of RPMs to add when downshifting?

Thanks

 

[STORMCAT]

I find the basic foot positioning is better without the stock mats. By getting rid of the large raised area it allows your foot to be more vertical. I am using a thin flat rubber mat which I really like. I posted something about them a few months ago.

Some people actually use the side of the foot up near the ball and not the heal. I am thinking about adding a small tab higher up on the gas pedal to make that method easier.

 

[Superfly]

I find the basic foot positioning is better without the stock mats. By getting rid of the large raised area it allows your foot to be more vertical. I am using a thin flat rubber mat which I really like. I posted something about them a few months ago.

Some people actually use the side of the foot up near the ball and not the heal. I am thinking about adding a small tab higher up on the gas pedal to make that method easier.

^^^ True, all true. I took out the raised mat, and am running Exoticare fitted mats only. They fit exact, and allow my foot a more comfortable position on the pedals. But it did take about a week to get comfortable with it, and then the rubber ones in my friends car felt much too high.

AND I use the side of foot, so it's more of a "ball/ball" (so I'm a baller, right??? :lol) rather than the heel of my foot. I used to heel with my Lotus, but eventually found the ball easier to manipulate and therefore control. So more of an ankle "roll" than a traditional 'heel/toe'.

Raise the revs enough that you're not 'dragging' the tranny up to engine speed. Does that make sense??

My $0.02. Your mileage may vary.

PS - Stormy, I sent you an email about my upcoming visit to Florida.

 

[BlackICE]

I find the pedal heights less than ideal for heal and toe. I am going to modify the brake pedal to make it's height adjustable.

 

[Shelby#18]

I find the pedal heights less than ideal for heal and toe. I am going to modify the brake pedal to make it's height adjustable.

Now that's an idea I like! :thumbsup

 

[Team Jeff]

Forget about "heel toe".... look at it like this: it's a matter of matching the engine's RPM to the speed of the car in a particular gear. How you physically perform the rev-match depends on the car (spatial relation of the brake and throttle) and your physical flexibility to operate the pedals. You might even need to modify one of the pedals to make the geometry work for you... maybe the brake needs to be a little closer the the throttle? (insert disclaimer here about messing with pedals!! :bored)

It took me a while to figure out that I didn't HAVE to use my heel for the throttle and my toe for the brake.... in fact, I use a little bit different method in almost every car. Practice on the street, before even trying it on the track have it mastered on the street! You have more than enough to think about while on track to be worrying about your down shift.

 

[ByeEnzo]

I recently spent 3 days at Spring Mountain outside of Las Vegas at their advanced driving school. We worked on heel-toe downshifts every day. 'Fly is right, it's mostly the side or ball of your foot that does the "blip" of the throttle. Our instructors told us that you should be able to roll your knee outwards and get an effective "blip" without twisting your ankle, etc. Some cars need a small plate or extension off the gas pedal so that you can catch it with the side of the foot. With the brake depressed, you still should be able to get onto the gas pedal easily otherwise adjustment of one or the other is necessary.
As for RPM...a crisp "blip" will kick up the revs about 3K. This needs to be done while you are passing the shifter throught neutral. I was "blipping" late after selecting the next lower gear and this can cause the car to lurch if revs are not matched. Now I practice any chance I get while driving on the road.
Next topic....trail braking....and Left foot braking. :willy

 

[PL510*Jeff]

Practice, Practice, and Practice some more, until it is automatically done by you without thinking about it.

Keep in mind the only reason you are down shifting --- so the transmission is in the right gear and at the right engine speed when you need to press on the right pedal.

Brake pads are so much cheaper, and much more effective than transmissions are, for slowing or stopping the GT.

Use your ear for matching the rpm's needed for down shifting. The motor in the GT is such a quick spinner, you'll find that a little dab of throttle is all you'll need when driving around town.

As has been said prior, in this thread, true heel and toe is "old technology". If the pedals are correctly spaced all you need to do is roll your right foot onto the gas pedal while you are braking.

With practice you'll know when you've done it right.

Once you've mastered the heel and toe method on the street, when you get onto a race track you'll be ready.

 

[Superfly]

With practice you'll know when you've done it right.

And once you do, you'll NEVER pine for a car with paddle shifter again. :cheers

 

[fjpikul]

Mark, while I'm no track pro (and I do get quesy going round and round in the passenger seat), most of the tracks you'll be on with the GT will keep you in second or third gear on most laps. Not much need to shift.

 

[BlackICE]

Much more so on public roads! 1st or 2nd is all you need to reach the maximum speed limits in the USA. :biggrin

 

[timcantwell]

WOW, your questions are all great ones. Heal-toe is a tough thing to teach. As a track instructor, I have had these questions for years, the problem is that it it like asking intellectually, "how do you play the guitar". Heal-toe shifting is no different than playing the guitar, it takes lots of coordination, feel and good senses to feel and hear the correct match of the revs. The only way to learn it is to practice, practice, practice, then practice some more.

 

[nota4re]

OK, just to provoke Sam (HHGT) here, we can't have this discussion without giving a "hat's off" to Nissan for what they've done with the new 370Z.

The new Z has a switch that enables downshift RPM matching. When enabled, you can forget about the heel/toe gyrations and just let the car do it for you. It senses that you are, for example, coming from 3rd and going to 2nd, and it will rev-match-throttle-blip perfectly each time.

Accoring to those that have tested the car, the system works flawlessly. For purists, the switch can be turned off so you can practice and/or maintain your heel/toe coordination abilities.

Cool technology.... and it is surprising that no one thought of doing this before.

 

[DanQ]

I use the ball of my foot and roll as well. I find it very hard to practice on the street. In order for the practice to be effective you need to mash the brakes (threshold braking) and do your blip and downshift. This is awfully agressive for the street, unless there is NO ONE around. If you brake that hard on the street you'll get rear ended if someone is behind you. Be careful with your practice.

 

[Mark06GT]

Great advice as usual. I found some pretty empty country roads the other day and had a great time practicing. The weather looks good for tomorrow, so I'll be out again.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Specracer]

also keep in mind, you can practice the blip ANY time you shift. With out touching the brakes. This will give you extra time to practice the mesh. When you get good at it, you can easily shift up and down our cars with out the clutch (careful though....) I have no problem with the pedals as they are, and I use the ball, and roll method.

 

[ChipBeck]

Advice for the physically inept.

Gentlemen,

I skip all of this nonsense and just replace my transmission synchros more often! :biggrin

Chip

 

[BlackICE]

Gentlemen,

I skip all of this nonsense and just replace my transmission synchros more often! :biggrin

Chip

What is the turn around time shipping to and from the UK? :ack

 

[Team Jeff]

also keep in mind, you can practice the blip ANY time you shift. With out touching the brakes. This will give you extra time to practice the mesh.

Very good point. :thumbsup

 

[Mark06GT]

also keep in mind, you can practice the blip ANY time you shift. With out touching the brakes. This will give you extra time to practice the mesh. When you get good at it, you can easily shift up and down our cars with out the clutch (careful though....) I have no problem with the pedals as they are, and I use the ball, and roll method.

I was practicing downshifting & blipping without touching the breaks because last year when I was at Watkins, there were several times when I was in too high a gear as I started to accelerate out of a turn. My thought was if I did this kind of non-braking downshift, I could put the car back into the power band without upsetting its balance and maybe pick up some extra speed and power before I left the turn.

Does this make sense or am I just making a dumb rookie assumption?