Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
JAY!
PLEASE CHECK YOUR REGULAR "GT SAVER" EMAIL!
I think I screwed up big time & 'need to "unscrew it!":ack :willy !!!!
Thanks!
'Pockets
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Halfshaft Bolt Answers (all threads merged)
- Thread starter dbk
- Start date
- Status
JAY!
PLEASE CHECK YOUR REGULAR "GT SAVER" EMAIL!
I think I screwed up big time & 'need to "unscrew it!":ack :willy !!!!
Thanks!
'Pockets
isaakgt
GT Owner
Jay, thanks for your input. As a former mech designer I would have to agree with you. I also have put some ideas together to try to solve this issue. Replacing the washers and installing undersized wired bolts is not a long term solution. I know I will catch hell for my thoughts but I just don't like what I see with this design. Do the halfshafts telescope with the suspension travel? I can't see that they do. If they don't they will hammer the washers which in turn will brake the heads off the puny bolts. Just my thoughts.
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- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
I am leaning your way Jay on this one which is why I just made the post in which I stated that Ricardo needs to explain what is going on. I would say that based on the vin numbers shared that have had failures it is now from the beginning to the end of production as such once again it is not a matter of "if"..... but rather "when" they will fail.
Thank you for looking into it Jay
Regards
Shadowman
Jay, I ain't got that coon treed yet, so der iz no one tree I lookin fer. I thot it mite be dat washer-theery tree but dant clearly aint it. Deres sum dinamiks between them output splines dat thoz bolts dont like. I tink dat fixn 'em bolts mite not be the mostest elegant fix but it will prolly solve the problem. Wood like to here what tree you think that coon is in.
analogdesigner
GT Owner
gtjoey
Keep Smiling - GT Owner
- Oct 14, 2005
- 3,454
Halfshafts Own Web Site Please!!!!!!
DBK, CAN WE HAVE A HALFSHAFT WEB PAGE ONLY:biggrin I MEAN NOW THAT ONLY 4,000 CARS HAVE BEEN MADE , 400 WRCKED AND OVER 3.2 MILLION POSTS ON THIS ALREADY :biggrin ITS TIME TO FOR A HALFSHAFT WEB PAGE OR TOPIC SECTION BY ITSELF...................... THANKS GTJOEY:thumbsup
DBK, CAN WE HAVE A HALFSHAFT WEB PAGE ONLY:biggrin I MEAN NOW THAT ONLY 4,000 CARS HAVE BEEN MADE , 400 WRCKED AND OVER 3.2 MILLION POSTS ON THIS ALREADY :biggrin ITS TIME TO FOR A HALFSHAFT WEB PAGE OR TOPIC SECTION BY ITSELF...................... THANKS GTJOEY:thumbsup
M
Mark O
Guest
Since there is a washer problem & a bolt problem, how about having two independant sections for each? :thumbsup
:biggrin
STORMCAT
GT
New Half Shaft Theroy No Jokes please
Well like all of you I'm concerned about the problem and I know there are 50 threads on this subject. I did a search and I did not see where this theory has been discussed. There maybe a another factor coming in to play that maybe the causing all of this havoc.
When fluids are heated the expand. They are non compressible and can exert great force when they expand. Is it possible that the heated transaxel fluid is forcing the seal out and putting pressure on the output flange thus putting pressure on the small retainer bolts?
Many of the failed reports list the fluid running out of the transaxel. The seals are pressed in if the retainer bolts just failed why would the seal come out? It's shouldn't unless they were forced out by the expanding fluid.
The heating and cooling of the fluid would cause a condition for the soft washered cars that would create movement and and wearing of the soft washer. In the hardened washered cars the bolts would fail because the initial torque was not to high but the expanding fluid and seal being forced out increases the force on the washer and bolt. The washer is not soft in this case and the expansion has to take place in the bolt so it snaps.
I know the transaxel has a vent. Does the transaxel have a separate chambered section for the pump, discharge line and return line? When you put in a transcooler how much additional transaxel fluid do you add? When you add the trans cooler do you still keep the factory type vent or is it replaced because the fluid level is higher? If the Pump section is isolated in it's own closed loop or restricted area then the expanding fluid could come into play. In this case it may take the trans cooler to resolve the issue?
In closing it maybe this fluid issue is a factor or just the expansion of the heated parts that may be cause the bolt failure or a combination of both. The fluid expansion theory would explain why the seals are blowing out or just leaking in some cases. If a transcooler is part of the equation then this has some serious cost implications for Ford?
Well like all of you I'm concerned about the problem and I know there are 50 threads on this subject. I did a search and I did not see where this theory has been discussed. There maybe a another factor coming in to play that maybe the causing all of this havoc.
When fluids are heated the expand. They are non compressible and can exert great force when they expand. Is it possible that the heated transaxel fluid is forcing the seal out and putting pressure on the output flange thus putting pressure on the small retainer bolts?
Many of the failed reports list the fluid running out of the transaxel. The seals are pressed in if the retainer bolts just failed why would the seal come out? It's shouldn't unless they were forced out by the expanding fluid.
The heating and cooling of the fluid would cause a condition for the soft washered cars that would create movement and and wearing of the soft washer. In the hardened washered cars the bolts would fail because the initial torque was not to high but the expanding fluid and seal being forced out increases the force on the washer and bolt. The washer is not soft in this case and the expansion has to take place in the bolt so it snaps.
I know the transaxel has a vent. Does the transaxel have a separate chambered section for the pump, discharge line and return line? When you put in a transcooler how much additional transaxel fluid do you add? When you add the trans cooler do you still keep the factory type vent or is it replaced because the fluid level is higher? If the Pump section is isolated in it's own closed loop or restricted area then the expanding fluid could come into play. In this case it may take the trans cooler to resolve the issue?
In closing it maybe this fluid issue is a factor or just the expansion of the heated parts that may be cause the bolt failure or a combination of both. The fluid expansion theory would explain why the seals are blowing out or just leaking in some cases. If a transcooler is part of the equation then this has some serious cost implications for Ford?
AMB
GT Owner
ARP Bolts
The 12 Half Shaft Bolts are M10-1.5 X 60mm," Class 8.8". I have some DIN-912, M10-1.5 X 60mm "Class 12.9 Bolts" ,that I will use untill my ARP-772-1008 Bolts get here. They are Class 12.9+ Bolts!!
AMB
The 12 Half Shaft Bolts are M10-1.5 X 60mm," Class 8.8". I have some DIN-912, M10-1.5 X 60mm "Class 12.9 Bolts" ,that I will use untill my ARP-772-1008 Bolts get here. They are Class 12.9+ Bolts!!
AMB
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STORMCAT
GT
My post # 230 is a new factor that should be discussed. I haven't seen this discussed before now it's buried here ??
AMP, thanks for the info. Where did you get them ??
AMP, thanks for the info. Where did you get them ??
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hemidoc
GT Owner
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Ricardo
Just for "ha-ha's", I called Ricardo in Detroit (and found out Don down in Fla did too!) ... was directed to Tony Walsh ... asked him if Ricardo was "on this" (researching, looking for cause(s), developing a solution, consulting with Ford etc.) ... he said HE wasn't privy to any of that (and because of this and that, he couldn't speak for Ricardo anyway regardless), but, to get an answer for me he had emailed corporate in the U.K. asking for current info on the subject and he'd contact me tomorrow (Tues 1/9) with whatever he found out.
I'll post here whatever he passes to me tomorrow.
E.P.
Just for "ha-ha's", I called Ricardo in Detroit (and found out Don down in Fla did too!) ... was directed to Tony Walsh ... asked him if Ricardo was "on this" (researching, looking for cause(s), developing a solution, consulting with Ford etc.) ... he said HE wasn't privy to any of that (and because of this and that, he couldn't speak for Ricardo anyway regardless), but, to get an answer for me he had emailed corporate in the U.K. asking for current info on the subject and he'd contact me tomorrow (Tues 1/9) with whatever he found out.
I'll post here whatever he passes to me tomorrow.
E.P.
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
BlackICE
GT Owner
Bony, your car didn't fail, in the sense that the halfshaft fell off. However since you had loose bolts, it was only a short time until it would have failed. If you didn't get the fix from the GTGuys you might not have made it back to Fresno!
I had two bent silver washers, but the bolts were still tight.
Does anyone need a repair kit? The dealer that was going to fix mine finally got the parts in.
BlackICE
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
I suppose your correct, nor did yours, but we had two ticking bombs, and it was a matter of time, could have been in 10 miles, 100 miles or 1000 miles. So, I assume you don't think we should join the list of cars that failed? Should I pull my post?
MWG
GT Owner
I'd be willing to purchase them if they're still available. I'm in the Bay Area as well. I'll PM you my contact info to discuss details.
-MWG
-MWG
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Hey Roc', read Jay's post a page or so back. He's got a different take on this whole thing altogether ("GT Saver"/ CNC Setup)
'Pockets
analogdesigner
GT Owner
Transaxle fasteners PART 2:
Transaxle fasteners PART 2:
Gentlemen:
Fancy fasteners and washers are not going to help this unique problem.
If you have an earlier car, such as mine (2005, #1877), the soft washer will allow the hardened socket head fasteners to embed themselves into the face of the washer over a period of time. This results in the original amount of tensile torque to decrease over time, allowing the fasteners begin to loosening freely over time. As soon as the first fastener "unscrews" itself and "falls out", all of the torque is transmitted to the remaining fastener, resulting in a sheared fastener. The car stops at this point.
Now, those with newer or upgraded cars, with hardened washers, will result in a different type of failure mechanism. This is because the hardened washer has less compliance, resulting in the fasteners exceeding their peak yield strength in a quicker manner. This results the heads of the fasteners shearing off.
GTsaver is designing and analyzing a new part to solve this problem. Unfortunately, there are some major illnesses within the family, so your patience in time would be appreciated.
Jay Philippbar
www.gtsaver.com
a division of:
CNC Setup, Inc.
2006 Via Solona
San Clemente, CA 92673
(949) 366-1211 24 hr. order/tech support line
(949) 412-8889 Cellular
(949) 361-8110 Facsimile
analogdesign@cox.net
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34
Transaxle fasteners PART 2:
Gentlemen:
Fancy fasteners and washers are not going to help this unique problem.
If you have an earlier car, such as mine (2005, #1877), the soft washer will allow the hardened socket head fasteners to embed themselves into the face of the washer over a period of time. This results in the original amount of tensile torque to decrease over time, allowing the fasteners begin to loosening freely over time. As soon as the first fastener "unscrews" itself and "falls out", all of the torque is transmitted to the remaining fastener, resulting in a sheared fastener. The car stops at this point.
Now, those with newer or upgraded cars, with hardened washers, will result in a different type of failure mechanism. This is because the hardened washer has less compliance, resulting in the fasteners exceeding their peak yield strength in a quicker manner. This results the heads of the fasteners shearing off.
GTsaver is designing and analyzing a new part to solve this problem. Unfortunately, there are some major illnesses within the family, so your patience in time would be appreciated.
Jay Philippbar
www.gtsaver.com
a division of:
CNC Setup, Inc.
2006 Via Solona
San Clemente, CA 92673
(949) 366-1211 24 hr. order/tech support line
(949) 412-8889 Cellular
(949) 361-8110 Facsimile
analogdesign@cox.net
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34
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analogdesigner
GT Owner
Take a pass on this one....
ROC,
You really do not want to tack weld this, regardless of whether you own the best TIG welder and know how to use it.
I am working on a proper fix for this problem, I just need to get my computers running overtime to solve the problem.
You have good intentions though...:wink
Jay
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34
ROC,
You really do not want to tack weld this, regardless of whether you own the best TIG welder and know how to use it.
I am working on a proper fix for this problem, I just need to get my computers running overtime to solve the problem.
You have good intentions though...:wink
Jay
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34
- Status