Electric cars and the impact on the environment

[PeteK]

Musk is an amazing salesman.

Imagine if literally anyone else floated this idea: we're going to dig subterranean tunnels. Within those tunnels will be platforms. We will take vehicles from the surface of the earth and transport them down elevators to these platforms, which will then whisk them through these subterranean tunnels to other locations where different elevators will then deliver them back to the surface. It's so stupid it's beyond parody.

But what's even more stupid? Tweeting that you've "received verbal government approval" to begin building a series of underground low-friction tunnels between several major U.S cities. Oh, verbal government approval? Well sign me up!

Electric cars aren't new. People were building then 120 years ago. Anybody today can build super expensive money losing electric cars subsidized by governments and profitable legacy companies. Does anyone really think but for the factor of "hey we're the Apple of cars, look at the cool factor" literally any auto company couldn't do the exact same thing? The technology isn't new, novel or complicated.

I would argue that Tesla's valuation is a joke, but Musk does it frequently himself, which is yet another amazing spectacle. Because they never prototyped the Model 3 tooling, I've got a buddy hot to short TSLA on the assumption things will go wrong. I think he's nuts. Some day Musk will declare "Tesla is about to go bankrupt" and the stock will rise 37% that day as a bunch of analysts blow him over being a visionary. :lol Maybe some day they'll start using GAAP...

+1

 

[soroush]

Musk is an amazing salesman.

Imagine if literally anyone else floated this idea: we're going to dig subterranean tunnels. Within those tunnels will be platforms. We will take vehicles from the surface of the earth and transport them down elevators to these platforms, which will then whisk them through these subterranean tunnels to other locations where different elevators will then deliver them back to the surface. It's so stupid it's beyond parody.

But what's even more stupid? Tweeting that you've "received verbal government approval" to begin building a series of underground low-friction tunnels between several major U.S cities. Oh, verbal government approval? Well sign me up!

Electric cars aren't new. People were building then 120 years ago. Anybody today can build super expensive money losing electric cars subsidized by governments and profitable legacy companies. Does anyone really think but for the factor of "hey we're the Apple of cars, look at the cool factor" literally any auto company couldn't do the exact same thing? The technology isn't new, novel or complicated.

I would argue that Tesla's valuation is a joke, but Musk does it frequently himself, which is yet another amazing spectacle. Because they never prototyped the Model 3 tooling, I've got a buddy hot to short TSLA on the assumption things will go wrong. I think he's nuts. Some day Musk will declare "Tesla is about to go bankrupt" and the stock will rise 37% that day as a bunch of analysts blow him over being a visionary. :lol Maybe some day they'll start using GAAP...

He is more than an amazing salesmen,

He has a knack for finding the talent and organizing a team to get his ideas to reality. Everything I have read about the man suggest that he a prick to the highest order (probably someone I would hate to be around or work with in any capacity) but you have to give credit where credit it due. I mean who else do you know that says you know what I want start my own spaceship company? I mean just think about how ridiculous that sounds and he goes and does it!!! and this from having no knowledge or experience in the field of aerospace prior to his involvement. No one in his family was in the field, he didnt go to school for it, and he didnt work for anyone to become familiar with the field, if you find out how he got started you would laugh,, its that comical! He has an ability to get things done through perseverance, arrogance and narcissism which I would imagine are all necessary to bring bigger than life ideas to life. His ability to assume risk is on another level as well. Now this doesn't say much about Tesla as a company but if I was betting I wouldn't count him or his company out so quickly. whether his cars are good or bad for the environment no one knows unfortunately even in the field of science there is so much corruption sorry I mean subjectivity, that everyone seems to have an angle or a bias in pushing their agenda. we really don't know the truth about the complete and real resources of our planet so its hard to make reasonable judgments based on missing information.

Funny thing about 'tunnels', espically along the Atlantic coast. Seems that there is quite a lot of unmapped and highly secret infrastructure that is buried up and down the coast.

Built a large regional shopping center in major city along the coast. While excavating deep for foundations a subcontractor inadvertently cut into a large black cable. This in spite of exhaustive research, well beyond reaching out to 'Miss Dig.' I'd say about 20 minutes later, the site was surrounded by more unmarked black sport utility vehicles than I've ever seen before in one place - save any GM holding lot (apologize for the disparaging comment about comoetitor inventory mgmt.). Turns out the black cable was a secondary means of private communication between the White House and Camp David.

I'm sure that somewhere in the 'verbal approval' that Musk and Team had fully exhausted the myriad of complexity iin government infrastructure, both known/disclosed and those that are secret. This guy is a latter day PT Barnum with enough following to get all the PR one could want. Just hope you aren't the last man standing when the music stops and there are no chairs remaining for your butt.

yes probably a big bundle of fiberoptic communication cable and guess what the insulation (black stuff) is? gutta percha. They not only go up and down the cost but they also go all the way to the other side of the Atlantic.

 

[dbk]

I'm not saying he's not a brilliant guy, but he mixes in some incredibly dumb shit. For all I know, he could do it just to test the limits of what people will fall for. Or perhaps he does it to make some claims so outlandish that less outlandish claims seem reasonable. Verbal government approval to embark on a seismic project that would cost in the hundreds of billions of dollars is not a thing. He obviously knows this.

 

[MTV8]

I get the case regarding the company valuation, but think this is a good perspective from Jay Leno.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/why-jay-leno-wants-you-to-root-for-tesla.html

 

[Kayvan]

Interior fit/finish on par with Eames custom lounge chair

The Model 3 (ludicrous mode) will have a sub 3 second 0-60mph.

At $35,000 I would say that's a game changer and -97% less than $400+K hyper cars.

Range is already upgraded to 300+mi and its been on market 20minutes (so long Bolt or dolt, 238mi)

500,000 orders and counting...

 

[Triheart7]

This thread was interesting. Glad to see everyone behaved. Entropy is a tough thing to overcome.

 

[2112]

Has the 300+ mile range and $35,000 price confirmed by outside sources?

How much tax subsidy is in that $35,000 price?

 

[dbk]

Yeah it's wrong.

The only model available at launch is $49,000 minimum, and the $35,000 entry point, when available, is 220 mile range and 5.6 0-60. You have to get the long range rwd model for now, and those are $9k and $5k options. Tarted up, $60k.

Here's your upgraded premium interior.

 

[BM SoCal]

I'll buy the 35,000 model with no glass roof but with the premium package, that's 40k. 220 Miles is great for an every day run around second car that has style and solid performance. And I'll never stop for gas or have to sit and wait for an oil change. With a credit it'll be back under 35k. One can argue the philosophy of a subsidy but hey it's there and I'll take some of my tax dollars back, thank you.

Until you've owned one you really don't appreciate the day to day benefits. That said I bet 30% of pre orders don't turn into actual orders and I think Tesla is grossly overvalued.

 

[dbk]

I am 100% with you on the lack of hassle in filling up gas. Having a hybrid that got 40-50 mpg was a great thing in the winter.

I am just not sold on pure electric cars as a long term complete solution. Ultimately it's about moving emissions from the tail pipe to the power plant, to further the consolidation of who controls your transportation and their ability to manipulate what powers it. It cracks me up to watch some people's brains churn when you ask them where electricity comes from. "The wall?"

Diesel was the mandated miracle until the powers that be decided it was a horror inflicted on humanity. Ask VW/Audi what the cost has been on that so far. A couple billion dollars, couple LMP1 programs, couple future sports cars. Some day in the near future, when the brains have decided we must never build another nuclear power plant, coal is choked to death, and the federal and state subsidies have run out, that cost per mile might not be very attractive. Nope, power demand too high lately. Rate skyrockets. Guess you guys just gotta move closer to the city.

Probably not my problem, or maybe even my kids, but it's just a furtherance of trying to choke down communities into urban cores and fundamentally reshape society.

 

[Apollo]

+1
IMO,
A bio diesel hybrid should be the ultimate workable solution for economy since it would be carbon neutral, (if you are keeping that score) and having a capacitor based electric system Ala F1 to get rolling. Unfortunately, I agree with what Dave is saying, this is far more a move for control and to shift society.

 

[PeteK]

This thread was interesting. Glad to see everyone behaved. Entropy is a tough thing to overcome.

One nice thing about entropy: It needs no maintenance!

 

[twobjshelbys]

One nice thing about entropy: It needs no maintenance!

Ha ha, funny. ( But I actually "got" heat and thermo, I sent the 1973 college textbook to goodwill when we moved.)

 

[Triheart7]

One nice thing about entropy: It needs no maintenance!

Good one!!

 

[2112]

but it's just a furtherance of trying to choke down communities into urban cores and fundamentally reshape society.

Yup

 

[Kayvan]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-31/driving-tesla-s-model-3-changes-everything

 

[dbk]

No shit, I never would have guessed that a guy who posts on his twitter timeline about how stunning Elon Musk's mom looks on the cover of Vogue is a big fan. :rolleyes

This guy's Twitter feed reads like Tiger Beat for Elon Musk. Let me boil it down: Tesla rulez, oil sucks, coal sucks, Trump sucks, I want to have Musk's babies (retires to fainting couch).

 

[Simon]

No shit, I never would have guessed that a guy who posts on his twitter timeline about how stunning Elon Musk's mom looks on the cover of Vogue is a big fan. :rolleyes

GMILF fetish?:lol

 

[KennethClay]

... but it's just a furtherance of trying to choke down communities into urban cores and fundamentally reshape society.

Not to get too political (because this is supposed to be a fun, car-oriented forum). But this video from Prager U was entirely consistent with that view. It's only about 5 minutes. See: https://www.prageru.com/courses/political-science/war-cars

 

[dbk]

Nice. It's not a surprise that interests like Bloomberg, ThinkProgress, etc align on the topic. It just is what it is.

Meanwhile, a handful of freighters (certainly less than 200) on the open seas produce more pollution than every single car on earth combined, but there's no big push to fight the pollution spewed out by a fleet of 7,000+(!) freight ships. Why? Answer should be patently obvious.