Do you have a transmission cooler?
- Thread starter fjpikul
- Start date
PL510*Jeff
Well-known member
fjpikul- I have the Ford Racing Transaxle Oil Cooler,
no trannny problems nor clutch issues . Just short of 55k.
Curious why you "relate" the oil cooler to the clutch?
no trannny problems nor clutch issues . Just short of 55k.
Curious why you "relate" the oil cooler to the clutch?
Neilda
GT Owner
I have the Ford cooler and no clutch problems. But I entered the 'don't think it's related' column....
Superfly
HERITAGE GT OWNER
I don't have a cooler yet, (2 more months and the Cooltech will be installed). I have not had a clutch failure, nor do I expect one. I voted that "I don't think they're related".
TallCarGuy
GT Owner
No cooler, no clutch failure, no transmission problems other than the standard cold shifting to second gear.
I also do not believe there is any relationship between cooler/no cooler and clutch problems.
Richard Hille
The GT School
I also do not believe there is any relationship between cooler/no cooler and clutch problems.
Richard Hille
The GT School
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Derry
GT Owner
I have had a few track days at Firebird where the car was pushed pretty hard and never had an issue. The cooler was installed b4 the first track event though.
Derry
Derry
I suppose that another good data point will be the upcoming GT driving school that you are hosting - assuming that there's one or more cars without a cooler there. (I know that all of the 5-6 cars that we are prepping will have a cooler - lol!)
I believe that there's most definitely a relationship as fundamentally;
1) I believe the failures are heat-related - either hot days and/or hard pushing of the car in track conditions.
2) The presence of a transaxle cooler - especially under these harsh conditions will substantially lower transaxle temperatures.
So, although not directly targeted at the clutch, the added cooling of the transaxle cooler may be enough to avert the heat-induced problem.
I too was at Rally 2 when a number of us (~10-12 cars??) made the run up Angeles Crest freeway before stopping for lunch. Once out of our cars at the diner, several owners remarked that they had experienced complete or partial clutch failure. There were several heads nodding. However, there was a mixture of Ford and Cool Tech coolers installed and none of these cars had a problem. Parts of that run were in 95+ degree temperatures and most of the cars were driven together - and presumabnly very similarly (all of us were stuck at one time or another behind slower moving traffic.)
As such, I can choose to believe that the results were either random or that only the more heat-soaked cars exhibited symptoms and that the presence of the cooler lessened the heat-soak to be under the failure threshold. I believe it is the later. JMO, ICBW
I believe that there's most definitely a relationship as fundamentally;
1) I believe the failures are heat-related - either hot days and/or hard pushing of the car in track conditions.
2) The presence of a transaxle cooler - especially under these harsh conditions will substantially lower transaxle temperatures.
So, although not directly targeted at the clutch, the added cooling of the transaxle cooler may be enough to avert the heat-induced problem.
I too was at Rally 2 when a number of us (~10-12 cars??) made the run up Angeles Crest freeway before stopping for lunch. Once out of our cars at the diner, several owners remarked that they had experienced complete or partial clutch failure. There were several heads nodding. However, there was a mixture of Ford and Cool Tech coolers installed and none of these cars had a problem. Parts of that run were in 95+ degree temperatures and most of the cars were driven together - and presumabnly very similarly (all of us were stuck at one time or another behind slower moving traffic.)
As such, I can choose to believe that the results were either random or that only the more heat-soaked cars exhibited symptoms and that the presence of the cooler lessened the heat-soak to be under the failure threshold. I believe it is the later. JMO, ICBW
I think there is definitely a relationship.
When we did the mountain route at Rally II in California, we were pushing the cars very hard at the front of the pack. Some people don't need to worry because they will never drive that hard. It was high heat, high elevation, lots of 2nd gear. By the time we arrived at the top of Angeles Crest Highway, there was a gaggle of Ford GT's with clutches stuck to the floor. Every single car that had a trans cooler was fine. Me, Camilo behind me, and I think 427Aggie and at least 2 or 3 other people without trans coolers were all driving cars that had clutches that didn't want to move in any direction.
My stock clutch went at around 12k miles and was changed for a Stillen. I do not believe the above have anything to do with it. I think the whole "powershifting 4-5 at 175mph with 900rwhp" probably has more to do with it. But I do think there is no way that it was pure coincidence everyone with a screwy clutch didn't have a cooler and not a single car with one had a problem. So I sure think there is something that relates the two, but I'd stop short of saying I think you could fry your clutch for good because of either having or not having a trans cooler.
Of course, now that I've type this, I see Kendall has posted the same thing :lol
I talked to Rich and Dennis about it, and I think they thought that the trans was getting so hot that it was transferring heat via proximity and messing with the clutch. I think it's a very specific combination of heat, driving scenario and gear that causes this. When I've driven my car at the track, the entire vehicle builds a tremendous amount of heat in 2nd gear intensive situations.
When we did the mountain route at Rally II in California, we were pushing the cars very hard at the front of the pack. Some people don't need to worry because they will never drive that hard. It was high heat, high elevation, lots of 2nd gear. By the time we arrived at the top of Angeles Crest Highway, there was a gaggle of Ford GT's with clutches stuck to the floor. Every single car that had a trans cooler was fine. Me, Camilo behind me, and I think 427Aggie and at least 2 or 3 other people without trans coolers were all driving cars that had clutches that didn't want to move in any direction.
My stock clutch went at around 12k miles and was changed for a Stillen. I do not believe the above have anything to do with it. I think the whole "powershifting 4-5 at 175mph with 900rwhp" probably has more to do with it. But I do think there is no way that it was pure coincidence everyone with a screwy clutch didn't have a cooler and not a single car with one had a problem. So I sure think there is something that relates the two, but I'd stop short of saying I think you could fry your clutch for good because of either having or not having a trans cooler.
Of course, now that I've type this, I see Kendall has posted the same thing :lol
I talked to Rich and Dennis about it, and I think they thought that the trans was getting so hot that it was transferring heat via proximity and messing with the clutch. I think it's a very specific combination of heat, driving scenario and gear that causes this. When I've driven my car at the track, the entire vehicle builds a tremendous amount of heat in 2nd gear intensive situations.
BlackICE
GT Owner
That is possible if the transaxle case temps were exceeding 284F or more assuming wet fluid. With normal driving in 75F weather I measured a case temp of only 150F, but under heavy 2nd gear in hot weather, while moving slowly it is a possible explanation. I doubt if fresh fluid would ever boil over. Something else very bad would happen 1st. However most never flush the clutch fluid as is, or should be routine with the brake fluid. If your transaxle case temps ever get that high I would agree GET a COOLER!
Dry Boiling Point Wet Boiling Point
DOT 3 401ºF 284º F
DOT 4 446º F 311º F
skyrex
FORD GT OWNER
Have the cooltech cooler, no problems. Looking forward to the GT school to give it a good work out. :cheers
t32b
Verde
This seems like one of those odd S.A.T. questions like:
Do you walk to school or carry a lunch?
or;
Is it closer to New York or by bus?
I noted that I have a CoolTech, have had no clutch failure, but I bought it for the sake of the transmission (and c'mon, they're cool and prevent that dribbling thing on the pans). I didn't think it would bear on the health and well being of the clutch.
Thus, the wise guy comments above
Sorry, can't help myself lately.
Do you walk to school or carry a lunch?
or;
Is it closer to New York or by bus?
I noted that I have a CoolTech, have had no clutch failure, but I bought it for the sake of the transmission (and c'mon, they're cool and prevent that dribbling thing on the pans). I didn't think it would bear on the health and well being of the clutch.
Thus, the wise guy comments above
Sorry, can't help myself lately.
MAD IN NC
Proud Owner/ BOD blah bla
where is the one box to check that says "do you believe Frank has way to much time on his hands this winter?"
First, let me state that I believe the enemy of reliability of virtually every automobile (many components) is heat and this is also true of many boat components - especially the drive trains.
There are many heat sources in the Ford GTs - and a number of them can be dealt with easily. I would say that the worst case combination, under the worst case conditions of external temperature and driving methods (track racing or mountain road scurrying) could create temperature problems in many areas of this wonderful car.
The first modifications to my vehicle (4 months after purchase - when the snow melted) were to install the Rear Exit Headers (M-9430-GTX) and the Transaxle Cooler (M-7095-GT) from Ford Racing, knowing that I wanted to track the car on various occasions. This did the following:
1) Elimination of the Catalytic Converters, which are a major heat generator, reduces the temperature under the clamshell.
2) Elimination of the factory muffler removes a heat generator, and also is a major improvement in letting increased air flow through the engine compartment, as the muffler systems block the air exiting areas with hot components. The exhaust pipes of the Rear Exit system stay low through the engine compartment prior to coming up to their exit locations.
3) The transaxle cooler lowers the gear oil temperature in the transaxle, which everyone has been talking about already. Furthermore, in conjunction with the removal of the heat source and flow blocking muffler, and radiation from the catalytic converters, my transaxle should be running cooler than most of the other cars with different components. The fact that the transaxle oiling system was designed to include this cooler (including the mountiing positions) shows that Ford originally intended to include it in the design (I believe the prototypes all had them), but removed it as a cost cutting measure in the final design.
I have never had a clutch problem in this configuration, including running on the track at Miller Motorspoorts Park in 109° F temperatures running in 2nd (mostly) and 3rd - reaching 4th only on the main straightaway. And, at one point the engine reached its temperature limit (242° F), cutting off cylinders for about ½ mile. Yet, the air flow through the engine compartment (the license plate is removed for track time) kept the other components as cool as was possible.
If you can find ways to eliminate, minimize or reduce heat under the clamshell, you will keep your gal running as reliably as possible.
PS - this is not to say that there is not another cause to the flat pedal phenomenon, especially after reading MR2Race's post in the other thread, however, I still believe that heat reduction will only make your GT experience much better.
There are many heat sources in the Ford GTs - and a number of them can be dealt with easily. I would say that the worst case combination, under the worst case conditions of external temperature and driving methods (track racing or mountain road scurrying) could create temperature problems in many areas of this wonderful car.
The first modifications to my vehicle (4 months after purchase - when the snow melted) were to install the Rear Exit Headers (M-9430-GTX) and the Transaxle Cooler (M-7095-GT) from Ford Racing, knowing that I wanted to track the car on various occasions. This did the following:
1) Elimination of the Catalytic Converters, which are a major heat generator, reduces the temperature under the clamshell.
2) Elimination of the factory muffler removes a heat generator, and also is a major improvement in letting increased air flow through the engine compartment, as the muffler systems block the air exiting areas with hot components. The exhaust pipes of the Rear Exit system stay low through the engine compartment prior to coming up to their exit locations.
3) The transaxle cooler lowers the gear oil temperature in the transaxle, which everyone has been talking about already. Furthermore, in conjunction with the removal of the heat source and flow blocking muffler, and radiation from the catalytic converters, my transaxle should be running cooler than most of the other cars with different components. The fact that the transaxle oiling system was designed to include this cooler (including the mountiing positions) shows that Ford originally intended to include it in the design (I believe the prototypes all had them), but removed it as a cost cutting measure in the final design.
I have never had a clutch problem in this configuration, including running on the track at Miller Motorspoorts Park in 109° F temperatures running in 2nd (mostly) and 3rd - reaching 4th only on the main straightaway. And, at one point the engine reached its temperature limit (242° F), cutting off cylinders for about ½ mile. Yet, the air flow through the engine compartment (the license plate is removed for track time) kept the other components as cool as was possible.
If you can find ways to eliminate, minimize or reduce heat under the clamshell, you will keep your gal running as reliably as possible.
PS - this is not to say that there is not another cause to the flat pedal phenomenon, especially after reading MR2Race's post in the other thread, however, I still believe that heat reduction will only make your GT experience much better.
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Jones
GT Owner
soroush
Ford Gt Owner
- Aug 8, 2007
- 5,256
Im short of 57000 miles and I had to take the tranny out to change the throw out bearing there was nothing wrong with the clutch but we replaced it anyway and the car did not have a cooler on it, and there was no clutch problem if you think of the clutch pressure plated and flywheel as a seperate unit, however the throw out bearing failed but I dont think it was due to a lack of trans cooler.
MR2Race
FGT The Velvet Hammer
Just a though.
After installing a trans oil cooler. You have moved some BTU content out of the oil.
Where did that heat go?
It was moved into the air stream entering the engine bay.
So is the engine bay air temps higher after the cooler was installed?
In reality we are just guessing until we actually measure things.
Until you pin it down with a unit of measure.
All we can say is “I think ____” or “it seams to me _____”.
The FGT team was able to make this program a success because we only used a data driven process to lead all design and development.
Words like “I think ____” or “it seams to me _____” were not to be spoken.
If you insisted on using the subjective method to direct your decision making,
You were voted off the island.
After installing a trans oil cooler. You have moved some BTU content out of the oil.
Where did that heat go?
It was moved into the air stream entering the engine bay.
So is the engine bay air temps higher after the cooler was installed?
In reality we are just guessing until we actually measure things.
Until you pin it down with a unit of measure.
All we can say is “I think ____” or “it seams to me _____”.
The FGT team was able to make this program a success because we only used a data driven process to lead all design and development.
Words like “I think ____” or “it seams to me _____” were not to be spoken.
If you insisted on using the subjective method to direct your decision making,
You were voted off the island.
tmcphail
GT Owner/Vendor