BlackICE
GT Owner
Nowadays it is very hard to separate the economy, auto industry included, and politics!
Dire Times for the Auto Industry
- Thread starter AtomicGT
- Start date
Nowadays it is very hard to separate the economy, auto industry included, and politics!
Not only that, but the laughable double standard that exists when the Fed won't even disclose who they gave $2 trillion in emergency loans to, but it's taken the very brink of collapse and a series of public lynchings to get anyone involved here.
It's just mind-boggling.
Citigroup
- $45 billion capital injection
- $306 billion in risky mortgage backed securities guaranteed by treasury and FDIC
- $85 billion credit line
- $22.5 billion on mortgage backed securities buyouts
- $30 billion buyout on securities on underlying credit default swaps
- Total package of over $150 billion
Pays to have friends in the U.S Government. :bs
AJB
GT
Do not fear....within 5 years the USA will have about as much International stature, manufacturing capability and defense capability as France.
I do think Gettlefinger blew it. He should have used the request to negotiate something more progressive with the other stakeholders rather than to just say "we already gave and cannot give any more....until maybe 2001"...The industry will be dead much sooner than 2011.
Why does the UAW think they deserve so much more that the general average Manufacturing wage of the United States? These jobs are not that terribly hard. Assembly plants are clean, well lit, extremely safety and ergonomic arranged, fitted with the best tools and computers etc ...not like 30 years ago. Get REAL.
AJB
I do think Gettlefinger blew it. He should have used the request to negotiate something more progressive with the other stakeholders rather than to just say "we already gave and cannot give any more....until maybe 2001"...The industry will be dead much sooner than 2011.
Why does the UAW think they deserve so much more that the general average Manufacturing wage of the United States? These jobs are not that terribly hard. Assembly plants are clean, well lit, extremely safety and ergonomic arranged, fitted with the best tools and computers etc ...not like 30 years ago. Get REAL.
AJB
Cyclenirvana
GT Owner
Saturday's Wall Street Journal, entiteld "Michigan's Fate Hangs on a Big Three Bailout",
"As of the summer, Michigan's tally of vehicle manufacturing jobs stood at200,000. The average weekly wage for an auto-production worker in the state is $1200, or more than $60,000 a year.....These jobs-which do not require a college education-pay for more than the national median income for a college-educated worker."
I and 7 other partners own a lab which employes over 40 people. The majority of these employees are histotechnologists, most of whom are not college educated, who make between $40 to over $60K/year, largely dependent upon experience and/or work shift (with night shift paying up to 15% more). The wages are based on the market not on our "feelings" of what a "livable" wage should be for these positions. The market for histotechs is very competitive, so consequently, many high school educated only histotechs with experience command over $50K/year. The point of all this is that neither I nor anyone else, in a free market capitalist society, decides what the wages should or should not be....and I would argue that we should never. This does not just include blue collar workers but extends to athletes and CEOs as well. And it has nothing to do with sympathy or empathy. A Ph.D. in English will likely make less money at a small university teaching than an experienced histotech in our lab, but that is due to the "value" placed on these positions by society and supply and demand.
On the Opinion page of the Wall Street Journal:
"Senate Republicans had more gumption. Led by Tennessee Senator Bob Corker, they asked the auto workers to show they were serious about making Detroit competitive again. In exchange for a lifeline form Washington, Mr. Corker wanted the union to set a "date certain" in 2009 for lowering the Detroit's Three's hourly labor costs to the average of foreign-owned auto makers in the U.S....
"The union's counteroffer was that it would bring down labor costs in 2011, when its current contracts run out. May be we missed something, but we thought GM and Chrysler were facing bankruptcy now, not in three years. As Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said on the senate floor, that sounds like 'tax payer money today for reforms that may or may not come tomorrow.'
"As of the summer, Michigan's tally of vehicle manufacturing jobs stood at200,000. The average weekly wage for an auto-production worker in the state is $1200, or more than $60,000 a year.....These jobs-which do not require a college education-pay for more than the national median income for a college-educated worker."
I and 7 other partners own a lab which employes over 40 people. The majority of these employees are histotechnologists, most of whom are not college educated, who make between $40 to over $60K/year, largely dependent upon experience and/or work shift (with night shift paying up to 15% more). The wages are based on the market not on our "feelings" of what a "livable" wage should be for these positions. The market for histotechs is very competitive, so consequently, many high school educated only histotechs with experience command over $50K/year. The point of all this is that neither I nor anyone else, in a free market capitalist society, decides what the wages should or should not be....and I would argue that we should never. This does not just include blue collar workers but extends to athletes and CEOs as well. And it has nothing to do with sympathy or empathy. A Ph.D. in English will likely make less money at a small university teaching than an experienced histotech in our lab, but that is due to the "value" placed on these positions by society and supply and demand.
On the Opinion page of the Wall Street Journal:
"Senate Republicans had more gumption. Led by Tennessee Senator Bob Corker, they asked the auto workers to show they were serious about making Detroit competitive again. In exchange for a lifeline form Washington, Mr. Corker wanted the union to set a "date certain" in 2009 for lowering the Detroit's Three's hourly labor costs to the average of foreign-owned auto makers in the U.S....
"The union's counteroffer was that it would bring down labor costs in 2011, when its current contracts run out. May be we missed something, but we thought GM and Chrysler were facing bankruptcy now, not in three years. As Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said on the senate floor, that sounds like 'tax payer money today for reforms that may or may not come tomorrow.'
nthfinity
Well-known member
Chrysler turns off engine for a month
Nick Bunkley, Detroit
December 19, 2008
CHRYSLER will close all 30 of its factories for at least one month, in response to plunging vehicle sales in the United States.
The company said the plants, which employ 46,000 union workers, would close this week and resume production no sooner than January 19.
Some will remain closed for several more weeks. Normally, the Detroit car makers close their plants for about two weeks at the end of the year. In addition, Ford said it would extend the holiday shutdown at most of its plants to a third week.
Meanwhile, worries that Chrysler could be forced to file for bankruptcy have spooked many car dealers into borrowing so much money from the car maker's lending arm that the company said it might need to suspend the loans.
Dealers have been requesting nearly $US60 million ($A86 million) a day from a fund used to finance vehicle inventories, and a total of $US1.5 billion since July. Chrysler Financial's chief executive, Thomas Gilman, told dealers in a letter last week that the requests were "troubling" and he urged them not to borrow more than "what's absolutely necessary for the operation of your business".
US car sales are at their lowest in 26 years. Chrysler's sales were down 47 per cent last month, compared with a 37 per cent decline for the industry overall.
Chrysler's chief executive, Robert Nardelli, told Congress this month that the company needed an immediate loan of $US7 billion to help it survive into the new year. Senate Republicans blocked aid to Chrysler and the other Detroit car makers last week, but the Bush Administration is expected to step in with some form of aid.
General Motors, which has said it needs $US4 billion this month to stay afloat and another $US14 billion after that, said last week it would shut 20 assembly plants in North America for at least part of the first quarter.
"People just don't want to buy cars," said Anthony Viviano, the chairman of Sterling Heights Dodge and Meadowbrook Dodge near Detroit. "Hopefully, by Friday, the President OK's this thing. We just have to calm everybody down."
Mr Gilman's letter showed dealers were feeling jittery along with their would-be customers.
"They don't know what to do. They're just running wild," Mr Viviano said.
Without access to financing, few Chrysler dealers would be able to order new vehicles. "Chrysler Financial finances 75 per cent of all vehicles shipped to US dealers, and we continue to support our dealer body with uninterrupted wholesale financing," said Chrysler Financial spokeswoman Amber Gowen.
Chrysler said its dealers, during a recent meeting at the company's Michigan headquarters, told executives that they had lost 20 to 25 per cent of their volume because consumers were unable to obtain loans.
"They have many willing buyers for Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge vehicles but are unable to close the deals due to lack of financing," Chrysler said in a statement.
In addition to leaving their plants idle, car makers have been trying to save money by cutting their workforce.
Last month, Chrysler cut about 5000 salaried jobs through a buy-out and early retirement program. By the end of this month, it is expected to have eliminated more than 1800 hourly positions.
Workers at the plants will be laid off during the down time, but a supplemental unemployment program ensures they will continue to receive most of their pay.
NEW YORK TIMES
-------
Something similar to this may happen at GM before too long; as dealer inventories and filled lots with a bridge loan don't make sense either.
Nick Bunkley, Detroit
December 19, 2008
CHRYSLER will close all 30 of its factories for at least one month, in response to plunging vehicle sales in the United States.
The company said the plants, which employ 46,000 union workers, would close this week and resume production no sooner than January 19.
Some will remain closed for several more weeks. Normally, the Detroit car makers close their plants for about two weeks at the end of the year. In addition, Ford said it would extend the holiday shutdown at most of its plants to a third week.
Meanwhile, worries that Chrysler could be forced to file for bankruptcy have spooked many car dealers into borrowing so much money from the car maker's lending arm that the company said it might need to suspend the loans.
Dealers have been requesting nearly $US60 million ($A86 million) a day from a fund used to finance vehicle inventories, and a total of $US1.5 billion since July. Chrysler Financial's chief executive, Thomas Gilman, told dealers in a letter last week that the requests were "troubling" and he urged them not to borrow more than "what's absolutely necessary for the operation of your business".
US car sales are at their lowest in 26 years. Chrysler's sales were down 47 per cent last month, compared with a 37 per cent decline for the industry overall.
Chrysler's chief executive, Robert Nardelli, told Congress this month that the company needed an immediate loan of $US7 billion to help it survive into the new year. Senate Republicans blocked aid to Chrysler and the other Detroit car makers last week, but the Bush Administration is expected to step in with some form of aid.
General Motors, which has said it needs $US4 billion this month to stay afloat and another $US14 billion after that, said last week it would shut 20 assembly plants in North America for at least part of the first quarter.
"People just don't want to buy cars," said Anthony Viviano, the chairman of Sterling Heights Dodge and Meadowbrook Dodge near Detroit. "Hopefully, by Friday, the President OK's this thing. We just have to calm everybody down."
Mr Gilman's letter showed dealers were feeling jittery along with their would-be customers.
"They don't know what to do. They're just running wild," Mr Viviano said.
Without access to financing, few Chrysler dealers would be able to order new vehicles. "Chrysler Financial finances 75 per cent of all vehicles shipped to US dealers, and we continue to support our dealer body with uninterrupted wholesale financing," said Chrysler Financial spokeswoman Amber Gowen.
Chrysler said its dealers, during a recent meeting at the company's Michigan headquarters, told executives that they had lost 20 to 25 per cent of their volume because consumers were unable to obtain loans.
"They have many willing buyers for Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge vehicles but are unable to close the deals due to lack of financing," Chrysler said in a statement.
In addition to leaving their plants idle, car makers have been trying to save money by cutting their workforce.
Last month, Chrysler cut about 5000 salaried jobs through a buy-out and early retirement program. By the end of this month, it is expected to have eliminated more than 1800 hourly positions.
Workers at the plants will be laid off during the down time, but a supplemental unemployment program ensures they will continue to receive most of their pay.
NEW YORK TIMES
-------
Something similar to this may happen at GM before too long; as dealer inventories and filled lots with a bridge loan don't make sense either.
598
GT Owner
Is a big part of the loan issue revolving around the fact that one of the big three is private? I'm guessing that is why Bush is looking at some kind of arranged bk filing. Clears out the private money. On the plus side, Ford should be quite strong when the dust settles.
Steve
Steve
BlackICE
GT Owner
Moody's dings Ford's credit rating
...Moody's said Ford will likely have to restructure its debt in order to win wage and other concessions from United Auto Workers labor union and fall in line with General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, which are getting funds from the $17.4 billion loan program approved by the White House...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Moodys-dings-Fords-credit-apf-13898831.html
...Moody's said Ford will likely have to restructure its debt in order to win wage and other concessions from United Auto Workers labor union and fall in line with General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, which are getting funds from the $17.4 billion loan program approved by the White House...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Moodys-dings-Fords-credit-apf-13898831.html
Kingman
GT Owner
Where'd the bailout money go? Banks aren't saying
Money buys influence and obviously arrogance - http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2008-12-22-bailout-money-where_N.htm
Congress should be ashamed of themselves. :bs
Money buys influence and obviously arrogance - http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2008-12-22-bailout-money-where_N.htm
Congress should be ashamed of themselves. :bs
BlackICE
GT Owner
Jaguar bail-out must come in 'days not weeks' warns union
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-must-come-in-days-not-weeks-warns-union.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-must-come-in-days-not-weeks-warns-union.html