Dire Times for the Auto Industry


Cobrar

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jun 24, 2006
4,027
Metro Detroit
Gentleman,

Do you ever wonder what it would feel like to be in Alan Mullally's shoes today?

Chip

I wondered that very fact when the hearing turned to an open forum discussion on the need for GM to buy Chrysler. They didn't show AM a during that discussion. He probably didn't know whether to jump for joy or cry in pain. Dodd offered a pretty good opening on the comparision of auto vs. banking assistance.
 

Pete S.

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 18, 2006
529
MA
What several members here have tried to state is very simple. Government should not be in the banking business if capitalism is indeed going to survive in this country. Government should be enabling the banking industry to provide lines of credit to help all industry in the United States. Frankly, if truth be told I would rather see government NATIONALIZE the banking industry or at least threaten to in order to shock the arrogant sob's in to doing what needs to be done. Infuse 300 billion into an industry and say "go help the auto companies" and get a "NO" in response? Why has no one picked up on that?

I could not agree more that Government involvement in even the smallest part of business has ruined the free market: how can a local dairy farmer compete if the Government controls how much he can charge for a gallon of milk? It goes back before that as well, but I am mostly concerned with your thoughts on Government controlled banks. Historically correct is that that is or was the defining event that lead to Hitler's rise to power; though very few remember or have deeply studied the events that took place back then. If you know any survivors from Germany during those times, I would suggest speaking with them about this very issue. Other than that, I agree with all you have put out there; the thread has slightly changed course and I have so far enjoyed everything I have read. The perspectives differing from my own make me think a bit more than otherwise I may not have.

Pete S.
 

dbk

Admin
Staff member
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jul 30, 2005
15,247
Metro Detroit
Pete,
Something weird happened with your username. When I clicked I noticed your banner was gone, your usergroup was set incorrectly, and your email was listed as 0@0.0. That ain't right. Banner is back. PM me your correct email if you could.

Thanks,
Dave
 

B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
Pete,
Hitler came into power due to the reparations that the Germans had to pay due to WWI.
The amounts where so staggering, their country was broken, people where not able to feed themselves or their children. He promised the Germans a land of milk and honey.
In the countries he invaded he then implemented his currency called Reich-marks.
 

tpraceman

THEE GT OWNER
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 20, 2006
2,835
Washington Michigan
Some info from a manufacturing side

Well it's Dec 4th 2008
I am sitting here trying to balance incoming $$$ verses out going cash flow.
And this holiday falls in the middle of the week which complicates and gives us a snippet of what it would be like with out the USA auto industry.

My company manufactures and sells identification tools and machines for just about everything from golf clubs to space shuttles.

However w/o the auto industries continues flow of work we could not live on the other industries alone (I.e. a marking system for Smith & Wesson will work for 50 years as the product does not change each year like cars do).

Now with sales of cars & trucks down so much even the suppliers who used to work the 2 weeks of the holidays are shutting down as well.

So my company will not be able to ship to about 85% of our customers (about 600 orders each week).

Also most of my suppliers steel, switches, heat treat, computers and so on will not be open either so we won't get our materials.

My engineers won't have any customers to work on projects with.

So what do I do?
  1. Lay them off for 2 weeks?
  2. With zero going out the door for 2 weeks I will not have any cash coming in next month for 2 weeks.
  3. Pay them as usual with holiday pay and payroll, and have them work a few days on well government projects?
  4. Can't do this as I out lined above.
  5. Go to the bank and borrow float money?????
  6. What do I tell all the customers that are open medical computer and golf club manufactures?
  7. Maybe I can tell them to order double to take up the slack of what the Auto industry isn't?
  8. If they did I can't get vendors to stay open who supply me daily.
  9. Now here comes the $100K BCBS health insurance bill for the month for those workers who are laid off?
My best guess is 250 people will instantly be w/o income and will not be paying any income tax.
I am one of those owners who knows every employee and their family's. And usally over do it with Christmas gifts and finances.
This year I feel like the scrooge at Christmas time.

And I am just a little guy....one of those companies people say 'I had no idea so much work went into puttting a mark on something".

What some of you may or may not remember is, the big 3 as we call them have been cutting costs and automating and inventing and fighting tooth and nail for the past 20 years.

Anti lock, air bags, mass produced fuel injection & electronic engine controls, crumple zones, brakes wheels and so on. We get told it is law and go create. Once it is done they tell the imports to put them on.

Well I have a pretty big group of engineers and inventing is 90% of the cost to make a "me to" is 10%.

So hats off to our Big 3 and thank you for all you have done and hopefully will do.

And yes I put my money where my mouth is.
I have given each employee with over 5 years and a great record a Ford vehicle to drive and I replace it every 2 to 4 years.
I just checked and since 2004 I have personally purchased over 110 Ford vehicles and most of my employees are so pleased with Ford they have purchased Fords on their own for family use as well.

Last year I took a photo of our Fords parked all around my plant and mailed 2 copies to Alan M. never expecting a response.
I got a nice hand written letter and he signed with a thank you on one photo and mailed it back.

It ought to be interesting when I have to amortize engineering and manufacturing cost over the few machines we would build for medical equipment sporting bottling defense......I can confidently say everything would have to double or be supplied from someone else over seas where the their people & goverment support them.

Final thought.........with a huge drop in retirees will heavy retirement states go belly up?

I cannot comprehend what this country would be like without the big 3.

Tom
 
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AJB

GT
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jun 28, 2006
2,976
Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
DJS /Tom... well stated. I watched today with great interest and many times I thought a remark like those would have been well placed. But then the media would have 'skewered them'.
And in the end, when he was interviewed in the hallway after the event ......Dodd stated that the only person who has made a committment to do anything...... "was RonGettlefinger and the UAW"" What a kiss a**. ...made me sick..
AJB
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Previousy Dodd also mentioned nothing was wrong with the jobs bank.
 

S592R

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 3, 2006
2,800
response

I could not agree more that Government involvement in even the smallest part of business has ruined the free market: how can a local dairy farmer compete if the Government controls how much he can charge for a gallon of milk? It goes back before that as well, but I am mostly concerned with your thoughts on Government controlled banks. Historically correct is that that is or was the defining event that lead to Hitler's rise to power; though very few remember or have deeply studied the events that took place back then. If you know any survivors from Germany during those times, I would suggest speaking with them about this very issue. Other than that, I agree with all you have put out there; the thread has slightly changed course and I have so far enjoyed everything I have read. The perspectives differing from my own make me think a bit more than otherwise I may not have.
Pete S.

Pete,

From 1910 to 1966 the US postal service operated the "Postal Savings Bank" and at one time during the great depression and world war 2 effectively it held the largest amount of dollars deposited by any institution until the middle 1980's. Here's a bit more information on it. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/06/opinion/06lind.html?_r=1&ref=opinion and http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked...m/15430/National-postal-systems#ref=ref367107.

Bony was correct that the major reason Hitler rose to power was due to the financial distress caused by the massive depression pressed upon Germany due to the WW1 allies. At one point in time a loaf of bread cost over one hundred thousand deutsche marks and increased 10 fold over that number within days! The danger of massive class economic change is that it divides a nation and causes class warfare leading to anarchy and potentially civil war. Hitler being jailed and allowed to write his "Mein Kampf" made him a national symbol and gave him a platform for people to rally around. Taking all the nuts things that happened later in his rule his economic recovery plan which built the autobahn among other projects was brilliant! But even in madness glimpses of brillance can be seen in any dictator... its the other things they do becomes reprehencible. Let me state this clearly I am no fan of Hitler, Stalin or any other of thier ilk but can from a historical perspective look at some of the ideas in a vacuum and see some good benefit in some programs.

To quote: Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson

I am so very happy that the democrats did not get a super majority and that at least in theory that power can maintain the balance that the founding fathers knew was so vital for government. Although they never dreamed about the size of government that we currently have any how little things truly change in DC with a change in the white house. Functionaries are built in to the system ... only the photos on the walls change.
 

Pete S.

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 18, 2006
529
MA
S592R, I agree with both you and Bony on these and most other issues. I only brought up what I did as another indicator to be avoided; the nationalization of banks is never a good idea. And friends that I have here in the D.C. area who were lucky enough to survive earlier times in Germany are extremely worried as that IS the key issue they recall, not having read about it, but lived through it. History describes more correctly the entire causes and effects that one experiencing the effects may not have totally realized the causes as they were happening.

As for the super majority, it's hard to say. The up side to a super majority might be, in the long run, an awakenning to Democratic voters that they were wrong this time when the Dems cannot make things better. Now they have an out, be it quite small.

Enjoy the weekend, mine just started.

Pete S.
 

nthfinity

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2006
457
South East MI
Had dinner with somebody interesting...

many rumors, and much heresay. He was reluctant to indulge in the rumors; but definitely did not dispell them.

Pontiac is almost 100% to be fared into the annals of history. Saturn isn't likely to survive, Corvette is under drastic changes; and GM as a whole will be a smaller facsimile of what it is now. Meanwhile, the preception gap is the greatest enemy to the US manufacturing capability.

Nobody knows if the "car Tsar" is a reality; but profits wont be coming soon by forcing Lithium, and Nickle batteries on both the consumer, and industry. Like the 70's; we will buy them; but not because we like the options... there is no alternative. Unlike the 70's; the Asian imports are not at a disadvantage to the technology available; and meanwhile, their own governments have been subsidizing their advancements and grandstanding ~~Robots that play instruments????

meanwhile; getting them all out is only so good... when you can't even clean your own closet.
It is tough.... economy changing mega-lay off tough. There is some light at the end of the tunnel; but time's are tough.
 

Cobrar

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jun 24, 2006
4,027
Metro Detroit
Previousy Dodd also mentioned nothing was wrong with the jobs bank.

In response to that I would say, the education of a Committee Chairman is never complete.
 

Kayvan

GT Owner
Jul 13, 2006
4,782
Corvette is under drastic changes; .

Is 09 last V8?
 

Mullet

FORD GT OWNER
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 21, 2008
2,468
Houston Texas
Is 09 last V8?

no way.
 
H

HHGT

Guest
I took the Silverado in for a bit of 4x4 maintenance and the Service manager, a friend, gave me a Chevy Cobalt as a loaner. If that is Americas automotive pride, then we are in a trouble for many years.

How would I describe the car.... A piece of $hit. On the other hand of they offered me a GTR or a BMW as a loaner, I would have walked everywhere instead.
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,362
Washington State
On the other hand of they offered me a GTR or a BMW as a loaner, I would have walked everywhere instead.



YEEEEEEW are one hopelessly sick puppy, Sam! :rofl :cheers
 
H

HHGT

Guest
YEEEEEEW are one hopelessly sick puppy, Sam! :rofl :cheers

In the words of Elvis, Thank you, Thank you very much!!!:willy:willy:willy
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
I took the Silverado in for a bit of 4x4 maintenance and the Service manager, a friend, gave me a Chevy Cobalt as a loaner. If that is Americas automotive pride, then we are in a trouble for many years.

How would I describe the car.... A piece of $hit. On the other hand of they offered me a GTR or a BMW as a loaner, I would have walked everywhere instead.

How many cars in the prices range of a Cobalt have you driven that are better? I suspect your expectations are higher than most and if you were blindfolded you would find the ride in a GTR or BMW much better than the Cobalts. But I wouldn't even want to think about what would happen if you were blindfold as a passenger in a 335Ci convertible with a hard top and firm bottom! :lol
 
H

HHGT

Guest
How many cars in the prices range of a Cobalt have you driven that are better? I suspect your expectations are higher than most and if you were blindfolded you would find the ride in a GTR or BMW much better than the Cobalts. But I wouldn't even want to think about what would happen if you were blindfold as a passenger in a 335Ci convertible with a hard top and firm bottom! :lol

Only BONY has seen me in blindfolds:willy:willy:willy


As far as American cars go, I have always been a fan of Saturn. As far as Japanese go, Mazda....
 

nthfinity

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2006
457
South East MI
Is 09 last V8?
The said friend wouldn't go deeply into details, and even if he would... it wouldn't be wise to post them.

I doubt it would be the last v8; but the last small block as we know it.
 

Kayvan

GT Owner
Jul 13, 2006
4,782