H
Competion Belt Bar DONE and available
- Thread starter cobrar1339
- Start date
TallCarGuy
GT Owner
Piana
GT Owner
harness bars
If there isn't another run don't forget our forum sponsor Safecraft. I have their harness bars. They are round which is the race car way. For the street the square bar with rounded edges are ok but if you are open tracking or going very fast I would recommend the round harness bars like competition organizations require.
Ed
If there isn't another run don't forget our forum sponsor Safecraft. I have their harness bars. They are round which is the race car way. For the street the square bar with rounded edges are ok but if you are open tracking or going very fast I would recommend the round harness bars like competition organizations require.
Ed
TEXAS GT
2006 Twin Turbo
If anyone wants a set of Safecraft bars, I have a set that I will sell. PM me if interested.
SYCO GT
GT Owner
SYCO GT
GT Owner
Some pics of the installed bars and competition belts from Cobrar1339:
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15508&page=5
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15508&page=5
Hydra GT
GT Owner
Ok Guys ...No Worries
I will be out of town for a couple weeks , but will collect the list info and reply to all.
No need to pay till it's all shipped out. Would rather not send the stuff one at a time if more than one item is needed. There are some good savings in shipping if I can put all the stuff together.
Plenty of Bars in Stock, just not been advertising or active lately with the real job in the way.
Here is what I have available:
Harness Bars - In Stock
Belt Clips - I have 10 sets right now and am having more cut next week. These are not the BK Clips, these are heavy duty, and designed for the GT. They are Driver / Pass specific.
Belt Sets - In Stock
Fire Ext Brackets - Low stock will run some more based on requests.
Ti Shims - In Stock
Roundel Kits - In Stock
There are a few other items as well, but this thread seams to be focused on the Comp Set Ups and Track gear.
I will be out of town for a couple weeks , but will collect the list info and reply to all.
No need to pay till it's all shipped out. Would rather not send the stuff one at a time if more than one item is needed. There are some good savings in shipping if I can put all the stuff together.
Plenty of Bars in Stock, just not been advertising or active lately with the real job in the way.
Here is what I have available:
Harness Bars - In Stock
Belt Clips - I have 10 sets right now and am having more cut next week. These are not the BK Clips, these are heavy duty, and designed for the GT. They are Driver / Pass specific.
Belt Sets - In Stock
Fire Ext Brackets - Low stock will run some more based on requests.
Ti Shims - In Stock
Roundel Kits - In Stock
There are a few other items as well, but this thread seams to be focused on the Comp Set Ups and Track gear.
Kingman
GT Owner
OzGT
GT Owner
This is a nice looking piece. One issue that does arise and I'd say is very relevant when talking about a piece of safety equipment is, whilst aesthetics are one thing I have not seen a single mention as yet of its satisfactory completion of rigorous testing to ensure it does hold up. I don't want to be the fun police, but I've seen a few injuries from inadequate real world testing.
This is a good question and a good point, that may have few absolutes.
Yes, we had the bars engineered and tested, but that is a calculation/stress test by an engineer based on the materials design and frontal impact scenario. I will say this, though. I did learn 100% head on impact with a wall at 150-200 mph will kill anyone even if the safety equip does not fail. The G's are simply too high for man to withstand.
As for real world, I consider that to be a "crash tested", situation which I don't plan to do nor do I advise. There are many things that can come into play in the real world like you mention. Frontal impact, roll over, side impact, flip, etc. Nearly impossible to check every possible angle of impact. So we use the one that would be considered worst case.
Then add the multipler and you have the Belt itself, the sewn seams of the belt, age of the belt, adjusters, camlock, belt clips, bolts, side seat bracket all in the mix. All of which have different failure point calculations we discovered. The OEM belt pulls from 3 points. The comp belt though a 6 point by design, pulls from 4 points.
The Bars themselves are carved from 1" thick by 1.5" tall x 8.5" long T6061 billet aluminum, anodized and relieved just enough to slide the belt through the back and rounded the backside enough that it has no danger of compromising the belt. There is a 1" section in the center that is not relieved to add strength and keep the belts from sliding from side to side. They can only get stronger if a full billet steel bar is used.
Now add there is only so much space behind the seat. The bolt holes Ford Provided will also accept the approx 3/8" dia. cast steel ring with bolt thread on the end that comes with some belt sets. There is no real problem with these, but it limits seat travel quite a bit as you now have the eyelet sticking out and you have to add a clip to the belt to attach it.
Once this is done you have quit a bit of gear back there. For folks under 5'8" this can and has worked fine. But if you are taller you will find the clip from the ring wedged against the back of the seat.
A full steel roll cage is no doubt the best, but on our cars we have an aluminum frame, so that means a bolt in cage ( not practical on a steet car). Unless we step up to some real chassis / frame modifications. Even then driving a caged car on the steet without a helmet one can be dangerous as your head can hit the bar.
For SCCA fender to fender competition or NASA a full cage is required and the bar tubing must be 2" in diameter. Anything less is not accepted. Unless you go full out and have cage designed, you really only have 2 options. The Belt Bar or the Ring. For time trials the rules are more liberal as there is far less chance of any car to car contact. The Harness bars have passed tech at all open tracks so far, including the Texas Mile, The GT School, Silver State Challenge.
In the end, you have to do what you are comfortable with.
Knowing that Motorsports are Dangerous and any number of things can go wrong. There are no warranties or assurances in any of the gear produced anywhere. My first Silver State a couple in a very nice Ferrrari lost a tire at 150 plus when off the road flipped the car and did not make it. They obviously had the coin to have good tires, and they passed tech. Not trying to scare anyone, but stuff happens. If you hang around motorsports long enough you will see some ugly stuff. Yet we go for the thrill and it's hard to beat. Every day is a risk.
For me I assume nothing = less things to worry about if the car or driver do not fail or get bumped into....Preparation:
Inspect the car throughly, belly pans off.
Torque belly pans to spec, if any bolt was loose check it. You don't want those coming loose at high speed. Especially the edge facing the front of the car. May be tempted to duct tape the leading edge for insurance.
Check torque specs where appropriate on suspension components.
If Ford says not to reuse and bolt and you cheated, get a new one and replace it.
Fluids should be up to snuff, you will be at high RPMS longer than you normally do in a blast down the hwy. Insure all caps are tight. And no signs of leaks from hoses leading to the tanks or PS reservoir. A trans cooler or extended vent is a good idea for normal track time.
Brake fluid ages - If you have done open track events and not flushed it, now is the time. 180 - 200 mph and 1/2mile to stop comes up faster than you would think. Stickey or fresh tires stop faster.
Insure you have a good balance on the tires/wheels. If it feels good at high speeds with ZERO vibration you are likely good to go.
Inspect the tires like a doctor would, every inch, remove rocks wedged in. Valve stems tight, etc.
Torque the lugs to proper specs.
As for Safety Equip:
Belts should be in date code
Strap in tight as you can stand
Helmet should be for Auto Motorsports, Motorcycle helmets are not sanctioned and designed to break apart differently.
Hans Device (optional, but the best tech today)- . Taller GT owners will find this difficult - impossible in the GT cockpit.
Nomex Suit and under garments are the best in a fire situation. Cotton Clothes second best.
Fire Ext (2.5lb hand held is min req'd) or better yet a fire system that activates in the cockpit as well.
Most Important = Common sense - If something feels wrong it likely is, ease off, back to the pit and inspect.
Yes, we had the bars engineered and tested, but that is a calculation/stress test by an engineer based on the materials design and frontal impact scenario. I will say this, though. I did learn 100% head on impact with a wall at 150-200 mph will kill anyone even if the safety equip does not fail. The G's are simply too high for man to withstand.
As for real world, I consider that to be a "crash tested", situation which I don't plan to do nor do I advise. There are many things that can come into play in the real world like you mention. Frontal impact, roll over, side impact, flip, etc. Nearly impossible to check every possible angle of impact. So we use the one that would be considered worst case.
Then add the multipler and you have the Belt itself, the sewn seams of the belt, age of the belt, adjusters, camlock, belt clips, bolts, side seat bracket all in the mix. All of which have different failure point calculations we discovered. The OEM belt pulls from 3 points. The comp belt though a 6 point by design, pulls from 4 points.
The Bars themselves are carved from 1" thick by 1.5" tall x 8.5" long T6061 billet aluminum, anodized and relieved just enough to slide the belt through the back and rounded the backside enough that it has no danger of compromising the belt. There is a 1" section in the center that is not relieved to add strength and keep the belts from sliding from side to side. They can only get stronger if a full billet steel bar is used.
Now add there is only so much space behind the seat. The bolt holes Ford Provided will also accept the approx 3/8" dia. cast steel ring with bolt thread on the end that comes with some belt sets. There is no real problem with these, but it limits seat travel quite a bit as you now have the eyelet sticking out and you have to add a clip to the belt to attach it.
Once this is done you have quit a bit of gear back there. For folks under 5'8" this can and has worked fine. But if you are taller you will find the clip from the ring wedged against the back of the seat.
A full steel roll cage is no doubt the best, but on our cars we have an aluminum frame, so that means a bolt in cage ( not practical on a steet car). Unless we step up to some real chassis / frame modifications. Even then driving a caged car on the steet without a helmet one can be dangerous as your head can hit the bar.
For SCCA fender to fender competition or NASA a full cage is required and the bar tubing must be 2" in diameter. Anything less is not accepted. Unless you go full out and have cage designed, you really only have 2 options. The Belt Bar or the Ring. For time trials the rules are more liberal as there is far less chance of any car to car contact. The Harness bars have passed tech at all open tracks so far, including the Texas Mile, The GT School, Silver State Challenge.
In the end, you have to do what you are comfortable with.
Knowing that Motorsports are Dangerous and any number of things can go wrong. There are no warranties or assurances in any of the gear produced anywhere. My first Silver State a couple in a very nice Ferrrari lost a tire at 150 plus when off the road flipped the car and did not make it. They obviously had the coin to have good tires, and they passed tech. Not trying to scare anyone, but stuff happens. If you hang around motorsports long enough you will see some ugly stuff. Yet we go for the thrill and it's hard to beat. Every day is a risk.
For me I assume nothing = less things to worry about if the car or driver do not fail or get bumped into....Preparation:
Inspect the car throughly, belly pans off.
Torque belly pans to spec, if any bolt was loose check it. You don't want those coming loose at high speed. Especially the edge facing the front of the car. May be tempted to duct tape the leading edge for insurance.
Check torque specs where appropriate on suspension components.
If Ford says not to reuse and bolt and you cheated, get a new one and replace it.
Fluids should be up to snuff, you will be at high RPMS longer than you normally do in a blast down the hwy. Insure all caps are tight. And no signs of leaks from hoses leading to the tanks or PS reservoir. A trans cooler or extended vent is a good idea for normal track time.
Brake fluid ages - If you have done open track events and not flushed it, now is the time. 180 - 200 mph and 1/2mile to stop comes up faster than you would think. Stickey or fresh tires stop faster.
Insure you have a good balance on the tires/wheels. If it feels good at high speeds with ZERO vibration you are likely good to go.
Inspect the tires like a doctor would, every inch, remove rocks wedged in. Valve stems tight, etc.
Torque the lugs to proper specs.
As for Safety Equip:
Belts should be in date code
Strap in tight as you can stand
Helmet should be for Auto Motorsports, Motorcycle helmets are not sanctioned and designed to break apart differently.
Hans Device (optional, but the best tech today)- . Taller GT owners will find this difficult - impossible in the GT cockpit.
Nomex Suit and under garments are the best in a fire situation. Cotton Clothes second best.
Fire Ext (2.5lb hand held is min req'd) or better yet a fire system that activates in the cockpit as well.
Most Important = Common sense - If something feels wrong it likely is, ease off, back to the pit and inspect.
911teo
GT Owner
Outstanding post.
You never plan to have an accident, but if that happens you want to be best prepared.
Wearing a 4-6 point harness on track will increase the odds of walking out of a crash alive.
I had the eyebolts installed and since I am 6'2" I experienced exactly what Cobra was stating above.... they were hitting the back of the seat, so I swapped to the bar.
One last note regarding the HANS....
For the GT I use the Isaac device (http://www.isaacdirect.com/). Because it uses the belts and the 2 hydraulic pistons slide over said belts you can use it comfortably in the GT as well.
It means that you need to get a second helmet as the attachment points are not the same as the HANS.
Great post, Wally!!
One of my concerns with the Ford GT's has been the anchor points for the lap belt, as they are tied to the seat instead of the car's frame. I'm sure that the safety testing at Ford showed that these were sufficient for the required specifications, but I still feel a bit leery of this mounting, which then means that the seat mounting to the rails and the rail mounting to the frame come into play. Should the seat rail mounting fail, the seat (and driver) would then only be tethered to the back bulkhead by the shoulder straps, as both the lap belts and the sub belts typically use the seat mounting bolts.
While they (Ford) did provide anchors for the shoulder harness belts, I would feel better if the lap and sub belts also had frame mounting points. Just MHO.
One of my concerns with the Ford GT's has been the anchor points for the lap belt, as they are tied to the seat instead of the car's frame. I'm sure that the safety testing at Ford showed that these were sufficient for the required specifications, but I still feel a bit leery of this mounting, which then means that the seat mounting to the rails and the rail mounting to the frame come into play. Should the seat rail mounting fail, the seat (and driver) would then only be tethered to the back bulkhead by the shoulder straps, as both the lap belts and the sub belts typically use the seat mounting bolts.
While they (Ford) did provide anchors for the shoulder harness belts, I would feel better if the lap and sub belts also had frame mounting points. Just MHO.
OzGT
GT Owner
Excellent post. My query actually came from showing the thread to my friend who's pro driver. I though he was right on the money given a lot of the stuff we do with our cars is customising and cosmetic, but safety gear must first and foremost be just that, safe.:thumbsup
SYCO GT
GT Owner
It would be helpful to have additional information from your observations.
What types of specific failures did you observe, in which pieces of equipment and where, and what were the resultant injuries?
Would you say they were material or design failures in the equipment or materials? Or failures resulting from improper or inadequate installation of the safety gear?
Or a combination?
Thanks.
snaproll
GT Owner
You must not have bothered to actually LOOK at these bars. And where is your tech on the injuries? Let's not be silly here.
I've purchased these and can say that I'm confident they are stronger than any mounting bracket that I have ever installed. YMMV but damn, are they awesome!
OzGT
GT Owner
jeez jump to conclusions why don't you both! Where did i ever say I was talking specifically about the safety of this product?? If you read my polite response to cobrar's well thought out reply to my original question you'd realise the post came from showing this thread to my buddy who's a pro driver and his raising the question of product testing on these bars since they are a safety device. I merely passed it on for comment as I thought it quite valid... :rolleyes
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