collector car market

[Black GT]

Have owned my 1967 AC Cobra since 1978. Paid less than $10K for the car which was traded in to the Ford Dealership where I worked for a new 1978 Mustang King Cobra -- they were unloved during that period. Everyone thought I was crazy for buying a car in Houston without a top or windows. Drove the car to UT and parked it in the parking lot of my fraternity house. Had a lot of fun and even towed my sunfish with it. Put about 10K miles on the car and graduated. Bought an 82 Indy Pace Car Vette and parked the Cobra at my parents house. Still have it today and it is a true survivor car. It may be the only Cobra with a trailer hitch. The ROI is great but firing it up and driving it is even better.

Please post up pics of your AC Cobra!

 

[Dolph]

Is it the BMW Z8 that has the weak front suspension?

Dolph

 

[FBA]

I spoke with someone who has been apart of Ferrari sales for almost 50 yrs. both at a dealership and privately with worldwide connections. Still brokers high end cars. I asked him about this crazy market. His take on it is it will continue to rise. Combination of baby boomers retiring and china, Russia, India, and Eastern Europe now in the market. Since Ferrari has the brand name, number one to rise. But only so many therefore other limited production cars are headed up as well. Though not as rapidly. So "enjoy the ride"

Very few Ferrari's rise in value...most just go down and down. That being said, I'm really not a Ferrari guy and just don't get it, but to each own. For me, overpriced and under-performing. The look really doesn't do it for me for the most part either.

One of the things that truly annoy me about Ferrari's are a select group of people who buy them, no disrespect to the members here who have them, and you're likely not the class/group of people I refer to.

The ones I refer to, are the ones that suddenly make a few bucks, and decide they "need" a Ferrari, then take everything they have to either buy it, or (more likely) lease it...just to impress. And there are many who have done it...only to end up losing them through foreclosure. Those are the same ones who can't tell engine oil from gasoline, or think a diesel has spark plugs.

In today's market, very, very few vehicles appreciate like the GT...certainly not Ferrari, unless we talk about the older ones like the F40's/ Enzo's / Daytona's and GTO's. Ferrari does indeed have the brand name, so does Mercedes, but they also sink like stones after purchase.

I'll take McLaren, Lambo, albeit, neither are appreciating assets, but sure are a blast to drive!

 

[mal]

A Ferrari salesman I know said to me a few years ago - always buy limited edition Ferraris as eventually they will be the ones that appreciate - At the time he was trying to persuade me to buy a 550 Barchetta at £90K. That car would now be over £150K - Generally I think he was right.

 

[Gene Cassone]

Very few Ferrari's rise in value...most just go down and down. That being said, I'm really not a Ferrari guy and just don't get it, but to each own. For me, overpriced and under-performing. The look really doesn't do it for me for the most part either.

One of the things that truly annoy me about Ferrari's are a select group of people who buy them, no disrespect to the members here who have them, and you're likely not the class/group of people I refer to.

The ones I refer to, are the ones that suddenly make a few bucks, and decide they "need" a Ferrari, then take everything they have to either buy it, or (more likely) lease it...just to impress. And there are many who have done it...only to end up losing them through foreclosure. Those are the same ones who can't tell engine oil from gasoline, or think a diesel has spark plugs.

In today's market, very, very few vehicles appreciate like the GT...certainly not Ferrari, unless we talk about the older ones like the F40's/ Enzo's / Daytona's and GTO's. Ferrari does indeed have the brand name, so does Mercedes, but they also sink like stones after purchase.

I'll take McLaren, Lambo, albeit, neither are appreciating assets, but sure are a blast to drive!

Please refer to my original post. Collector grade Ferraris are "pre boxer" except limited production models such as 288 GTO, F40 Enzo etc. Having owned 5, 70 era cars, and been to many annual meets, there is no typical owner. But there certainly those as you refer to above. However there were many owners, such as engineers, who appreciated the cars for what they are; beautiful italian styling, hand made (earlier models especially). They may not have owned the truly rare cars but enjoyed them. Unfortunately many of them are "selling out" now because of the crazy evaulations (myself included).
I have to disagree about only the GT going up otherwise. I own a 59 Giulietta spider veloce, which many were made, whose value is likewise going substantially higher. I do not follow the XKE market but suspect they are headed north as well. I am sure there are many others as well. Styling and nos produced will drive the prices as well.
As far as the Z8 comment. There were some front strut problems. May have something to do with the stiff walled run flats, Problem Probably overdone by the media. Strut brace solves the problem.

 

[Sinovac]

The problem with the Z8 was not with the strut itself. The top of the strut towers can deform ("mushroom") from a combination of an overly stiff suspension/tire and extreme upward compression of the strut (e.g encounter with a pothole). Other BMW products, including the Mini Cooper, can suffer from the same problem. Those strut towers were not very robust. The tower can be reinforced with the brace Gene mentioned. I believe there are other bolt on solutions as well. We should keep this in mind when we complain about faulty FGT gauges. I'll take a bad gauge (or two, or three) over a structural problem any day.

 

[FBA]

Please refer to my original post. Collector grade Ferraris are "pre boxer" except limited production models such as 288 GTO, F40 Enzo etc. Having owned 5, 70 era cars, and been to many annual meets, there is no typical owner. But there certainly those as you refer to above. However there were many owners, such as engineers, who appreciated the cars for what they are; beautiful italian styling, hand made (earlier models especially). They may not have owned the truly rare cars but enjoyed them. Unfortunately many of them are "selling out" now because of the crazy evaulations (myself included).
I have to disagree about only the GT going up otherwise. I own a 59 Giulietta spider veloce, which many were made, whose value is likewise going substantially higher. I do not follow the XKE market but suspect they are headed north as well. I am sure there are many others as well. Styling and nos produced will drive the prices as well.
As far as the Z8 comment. There were some front strut problems. May have something to do with the stiff walled run flats, Problem Probably overdone by the media. Strut brace solves the problem.

Sorry, I wasn't quoting your original post, but the one just above mine. But what I said was "most" not all...same with the comment about the GT...I said "very few", not "all". I will reiterate: Most Ferraris do drop down and do not appreciate, very few vehicles do what the GT does, but not all...just many more models that depreciate rather than appreciate!

I suppose one could say many of the old-era American muscle cars appreciate as well, but that's really not the case, because for the most part, only a few models with very specific build options are the ones driving the price up. And - if I watch the rate of appreciation on the GT's - once again, not much around picking up steam as rapidly, but that's just my opinion, not fact. And when I use the word "appreciate", I also mean appreciate to some serious value, not a car that sold for 5K in 1970 and today sells for 35k...

I think a clean low-mileage GT on 20 years will be in the 1-2 million+ price range. I can't say that about a whole lot of cars..

 

[Pro_GT_driver]

May be this fits also into this thread:

I am eying to buy my second FGT from the European grey market, so I can spread the miles I do every year on two cars, and I could enjoy this supercar in two different colours (may be heritage).
These are generally 2 owner’s cars with low mileage. Prices for up to 10kMiles clean cars are in the range of 200k USD, all taxes and duties included. For this price, I wouldn’t be able to import one from the US or Canada anymore.

For registration in my country, no mods to the US version are required, except some bulbs to change from yellow to white (mine was registered without any issue).
As the market for FGT over here is quite calm, I am wondering if you would re-import a previously exported Vehicle back to the US, although I do not intend to sell in a few years, but may be in 20 years or so …..
Registration shouldn’t be an issue for you as the cars were already registered in the US, and import duty and taxes seem to be very low for used cars (around 2.5% ??)
Thanks for your comments!

 

[GTMikey]

Have you seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail? "Run Away Run Away"

Seriously, a lot of crashed GT's make there way over the pond. Just be careful you aren't getting something that looked like a Fiat before it was fixed. Over 1800 GT's have salvage titles.

 

[djs]

"Over 1800 GT's have salvage titles."
Is this verifiable? I know a lot of GTs have met their maker, but 45% of original production? That seems really high.

 

[GTMikey]

Here's some to start with:
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/gt40/

Ask the boys, someone keeps track, I'm pretty sure that's the number

 

[Pro_GT_driver]

These photos really look awful, a real carnage. Can't look at it.:facepalm:
Is anyone collecting VIN numbers of these totaled cars?

My actual car had only 1400Miles or so when imported in 2006, and the buyer paid 165k USD. Clean carfax etc. The car drives exellent even at speed around 190mph.
So I am quite confident. But you are right, I have to be very careful, thanks.

 

[rf18412]

Sold for $231,000, 2005, 900 miles

Wow, high price

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1058316

 

[Sinovac]

I would be really surprised if the number of salvage title GTs is anything close to 1800. I think the number of total loss GTs has been overstated for some time. I believe there would be many more unsalvageable wrecks for sale if the number was as high as has been reported.

 

[FBA]

I want to believe it's that high!

 

[RALPHIE]

Remember - there are a number of GTs that do not have salvage titles, but have been in very serious accidents. They were not reported to their insurance companies, and were repaired at the owner's cost.

Be very careful!!

 

[dbk]

I would be really surprised if the number of salvage title GTs is anything close to 1800. I think the number of total loss GTs has been overstated for some time. I believe there would be many more unsalvageable wrecks for sale if the number was as high as has been reported.

There is absolutely, unequivocally, no way there are 1800 salvage title GTs. That fish is getting thiiiiiiiiis big as time goes on. :lol

 

[GTMikey]

Good to know, I like Ralphie's input. many many out there that have been wrecked but fixed. I have seen some gnarly ones.

 

[Sinovac]

There is absolutely, unequivocally, no way there are 1800 salvage title GTs. That fish is getting thiiiiiiiiis big as time goes on. :lol

The other myth is that there are few delivery mile cars left. I'll venture a guess that there are more delivery mile/low mile/MSO cars than cars with over 3k miles. They just aren't for sale. In 20 years there will still be a boat load of delivery mile cars. For those invested in the Ford GT retirement plan, I hope these cars don't come to market at the same time.

 

[GTMikey]

I know of two Heritages sub 100 miles in Socal.