BlackICE
GT Owner
I you want to read about this and more.
http://www.fastenal.com/content/documents/FastenalTechnicalReferenceGuide.pdf
Apparent Transmission Fluid Leak
- Thread starter Magic
- Start date
I you want to read about this and more.
http://www.fastenal.com/content/documents/FastenalTechnicalReferenceGuide.pdf
Beach-GT
GT Owner
I thought lock-tite was supposed to be used on the inner bolts? I heated them with a troch to get mine out and they had lock-tite on them from the factory. I put lock-tite on the them when re-installing. Just sayin.
Attached are pics of what was found when Larry took the couplers apart. He started on my drivers first (where I had the leak).
As you can see the two inside bolts have backed off by 1/4 to 1/2 inch from the large washer. This was allowing the flange to move so much when I would pull on the half shaft (see previous video).
The two bolts and washer from the drives side. The washer confirms that I had the 2nd series repair kit put on my car. At first I didn't think the inner bolts had any loctite on the, but when I look at a closeup of the pic I believe I see some faint blue on the threads.
The outside bolts take off show no signs of any markings on the caps which Larry was expecting as a way to make sure the outside bolts which are TTY (torque to yield) had been installed per Ford instructions.
The new washer with Motorcraft "loctite type" applied to back of washer along with the new outside coupler bolts and one of the inner bolts with the blue loctite material already applied from Ford.
The drives side completed and ready to go back together.
Part Two
The passengers side looked OK from a visual inspect, but once Larry got it apart that side also had the inner bolts coming loose too. This is shown by the presence of fluid once the coupler was apart. A properly tiight setup would have no fluid present.
Larry completed the job on the passenger side and my problem was taken care of. He did add about 1/2 qt of transaxle fluid to bring my car up to the level it should be.
The last two shots show how Larry marked the outside coupler bolts so the he knew when they had been torqued the right amount and then backed off the amount as required by Ford.
The passengers side looked OK from a visual inspect, but once Larry got it apart that side also had the inner bolts coming loose too. This is shown by the presence of fluid once the coupler was apart. A properly tiight setup would have no fluid present.
Larry completed the job on the passenger side and my problem was taken care of. He did add about 1/2 qt of transaxle fluid to bring my car up to the level it should be.
The last two shots show how Larry marked the outside coupler bolts so the he knew when they had been torqued the right amount and then backed off the amount as required by Ford.
Attachments
You made no mention of applying anaerobic sealant to the splines on the flange. As both of yours were leaking, just retighening/replacing the outer bolts will not seal the splines. This is where the fluid leaks from. Your photos do not show the flange being removed from the transmission at all. Perhaps you just did not mention that step. Its covered in the TSB on fluid leakage.
fjpikul
GT Owner
I see in your haste you were unable to convert the trailer to taco service. Oh well, better luck next year.
steved57
GT Owner
Beach-GT
GT Owner
From the pictures that were included in this thread, it appears that the TSB was followed precisely. You reference removing the flange from the transmission - which the TSB explicitly warns NOT to do. Instead, the sealant is supposed to be applied in a circular pattern to align with the "jagged" spline-ends and this is exactly what was done. Looks to me like a very thorough and professional job - exactly following the TSB.
The Motorcraft packaged material he used was labeled as both a thread lock and sealer. He explained he was placing it on the back of the washer to seal the spline-ends so fluid wouldn't leak out. I have no reason the think he didn't do it the right way. I'm satisfied with his work. Enough so that the next day I went out and ran my car full out at the Texas Mile.
Axle Bolts loose again
My wife and I just got back from participating in Classic Motorsports Magazine Orange Blossom Tour across northern Florida. We had a great time and enjoyed driving the GT except for one item - transmission fluid leakage and required fix.
On the first day of the trip we had stopped at Brumos Porsche, Jacksonville, FL for lunch and a tour of their race museum when I was told that it appeared that oil was leaking from my car out in the parking lot. I went our and sure enough a fairly large puddle was found on the passenger side of the car near the rear wheel. :eek You could actually tell where the leak started in the parking lot by the linear trail of oil left. A quick look in the engine compartment verified that I had leaked a substantial amount of fluid as the bottom pan/cover was filled with oil. A smell check of the fluid confirmed it was gear oil and not engine oil. I called the GT guys and they felt like it most likely was a problem with the half shaft leaking i.e. the half shaft bolts had failed. Luckily their was a Ford dealer 3 blocks away and when called they said they had a couple of mechanics certified to work on the GT and could work me in to get the car up on a lift and see what the problem was.
Off to the dealer and a couple of hours later the mechanic took me back and showed me the loose half shaft/coupler flange on the driver's side and where you could see the coupler flange had moved away from the transaxle and allowed gear oil to escape. He said they could get the necessary parts overnighted from Ford and get me on the road again by the next day. I gave the green light and using a loaner BMW Alpina B6 Gran Coup from the Orange Blossom Tour, left to catch back up with group.
Parts finally came in early afternoon the next day and I had my car back on the road by 7:00 that night. The service manager stayed an hour past their normal closing time just so we could get our car which was greatly appreciated. My car performed flawlessly from there on out during the trip.
I asked them to save the parts take off my car and the problem appears that the 2 axle bolts had not sheared, but had backed off allowing the coupler flange to move.
So this is now the second time that my axle shaft bolts have backed out and caused movement in the coupler flange and the third fix applied to it. The last fix was done at and by a Ford mechanic using Ford supplied parts and supposedly following Ford recommended repair procedures. My feeling is if it happens again I've got something else going on that is causing the bolts to back out. I did check my car over before I left for the trip and didn't see any signs of fluid leaking so this must have happened very quickly.
I was lucky that it happened where it did so that someone noticed it and I was close by a place that could secure parts and fix the problem. I could of had a major problem if it had happened during a "spirited" run we made through an isolated part of the tour.
Has anyone else had multiple problems with the axle bolts backing out? :confused Curious if others have had this problem or just me. I'm also considering sending a letter to Ford about this as the last fix was performed at a Ford dealership and for whatever reason the fix failed.
My wife and I just got back from participating in Classic Motorsports Magazine Orange Blossom Tour across northern Florida. We had a great time and enjoyed driving the GT except for one item - transmission fluid leakage and required fix.
On the first day of the trip we had stopped at Brumos Porsche, Jacksonville, FL for lunch and a tour of their race museum when I was told that it appeared that oil was leaking from my car out in the parking lot. I went our and sure enough a fairly large puddle was found on the passenger side of the car near the rear wheel. :eek You could actually tell where the leak started in the parking lot by the linear trail of oil left. A quick look in the engine compartment verified that I had leaked a substantial amount of fluid as the bottom pan/cover was filled with oil. A smell check of the fluid confirmed it was gear oil and not engine oil. I called the GT guys and they felt like it most likely was a problem with the half shaft leaking i.e. the half shaft bolts had failed. Luckily their was a Ford dealer 3 blocks away and when called they said they had a couple of mechanics certified to work on the GT and could work me in to get the car up on a lift and see what the problem was.
Off to the dealer and a couple of hours later the mechanic took me back and showed me the loose half shaft/coupler flange on the driver's side and where you could see the coupler flange had moved away from the transaxle and allowed gear oil to escape. He said they could get the necessary parts overnighted from Ford and get me on the road again by the next day. I gave the green light and using a loaner BMW Alpina B6 Gran Coup from the Orange Blossom Tour, left to catch back up with group.
Parts finally came in early afternoon the next day and I had my car back on the road by 7:00 that night. The service manager stayed an hour past their normal closing time just so we could get our car which was greatly appreciated. My car performed flawlessly from there on out during the trip.
I asked them to save the parts take off my car and the problem appears that the 2 axle bolts had not sheared, but had backed off allowing the coupler flange to move.
So this is now the second time that my axle shaft bolts have backed out and caused movement in the coupler flange and the third fix applied to it. The last fix was done at and by a Ford mechanic using Ford supplied parts and supposedly following Ford recommended repair procedures. My feeling is if it happens again I've got something else going on that is causing the bolts to back out. I did check my car over before I left for the trip and didn't see any signs of fluid leaking so this must have happened very quickly.
I was lucky that it happened where it did so that someone noticed it and I was close by a place that could secure parts and fix the problem. I could of had a major problem if it had happened during a "spirited" run we made through an isolated part of the tour.
Has anyone else had multiple problems with the axle bolts backing out? :confused Curious if others have had this problem or just me. I'm also considering sending a letter to Ford about this as the last fix was performed at a Ford dealership and for whatever reason the fix failed.
GKW05GT
GT Owner
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
Sorry to hear of your continued bolt relaxation issue. I reviewed your March 2013 photo documentation of the last bolt installation and all looked correct. And with Kendall chiming in saying it looked to him like a very thorough and professional job, this is perplexing. Thanks for not trying to blame this relaxation issue on the Ford TSB supplied “bolts”. As I do not think the relaxation issue is a bolt problem. As Scott so eloquently posts in #36 bolted joints require some thought. Bolt preload is very important for proper joint operation.
The only recommendation I can offer is to remove the axle bolts, clean them and the internal threads into which they thread. Reinstall the axle bolts with a Loctite sealant and torque to the TSB Ford torque recommended limit. I would personally reuse the outside TTY bolts following the same TSB tightening procedure, but if you like you can use new ones for your peace of mind.
The only recommendation I can offer is to remove the axle bolts, clean them and the internal threads into which they thread. Reinstall the axle bolts with a Loctite sealant and torque to the TSB Ford torque recommended limit. I would personally reuse the outside TTY bolts following the same TSB tightening procedure, but if you like you can use new ones for your peace of mind.
Between all the Ford dealerships, the GT Guys, Shelby, etc., I imagine that combined we've done a few hundred axle bolt upgrades - and never once had to do one twice. The only thing I can think of is that although it is not called out specifically in the instructions, it is sometimes necessary to "chase" the threads with a tap to get all of the red Loctite out of there. If this step wasn't performed (and you'd likely only perform it based on experience) it could be the that there's some build-up at the bottom of the threads and this is contributing to a false torque reading. In other words, the bolts may be bottoming out against debris as opposed to physically clamping the components together. As such, my recommendation would be to do the repair *again*, chase the threads and check the depth of the threads before final assembly. If all of this is done properly, it's hard to imagine that you would have any further problems. (Also, the TSB for fluid leaking down the splined output shaft should be done with each repair.)
PeteK
GT Owner
Scott, a small correction: The bolts in a properly assembled joint receive NO cyclic stress because if the joint is held together tightly, the bolt will not get flexed. It stays in continuous tension at the torque to which it was set. If the bolt gets cyclic stress, then the joint is NOT being held together tightly (and you will have much bigger problems in short order)
PeteK
GT Owner
One other thing to check: Make sure the flanges fit on the splines tightly. If anything, it should be a bit of an interference fit. If there is any play, the loading/unloading cycles will cause the washer to "work" against the inside of the flange, and that could lead to the bolts loosening.
STORMCAT
GT
Use the red loctite on the threads. The blue isn't strong enough.. If I recall Accufab recommends cleaning the old threasd with a tap and using the red locitite for final install.. I used the red , with the proper torque they will not back out ..
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
Pete is absolutely correct!
You definitely do not want any bolt to experience cyclic or fluctuating loads. The high stress concentrations of the thread roots would lead to very premature fatigue failures. This is why flange bolts should be loaded as high as their material strength will allow (Shigley recommends 90% of material yield strength for the bolt tensile area).
PeteK
GT Owner
Noticed on my repair invoice that I was charged for a Ford product listed as Motorcraft part # TA-25-B which is listed as a medium strength threadlocker (blue) and is hand tool removable. Should this repair have been done using Motorcraft part # TA-26 which is listed as a high strength threadlocker (red) which would make sure the bolts won't come loose?