A Comedy of Errors

[ENZO BTR]

Great point about the check-in condition report bony.

I recently had my car at Santa Monica Ford and they did a VERY thorough inspection of the car (including laying down and looking underneath it) before they took possession. Obviously this would have cleared up any post-service condition issues had they arisen (they didn't, and I got the car back in three hours with an oil change, fluid/brake inspection and both doors adjusted to address a driver's door rattle and a binding passenger door release).

Anyway, the dealership should have checked the car in BEFORE doing service. If they did, then you've got them because I'm sure they didn't note all of this "claimed" damage from the "first" shunt. And if they didn't, you've STILL got them because they can't prove any of the damage was there and your position is it was perfect -- after all it only had 350 miles (and if they want to refute your position they can of course point to the pre-service inspection report...that they never did).

 

[Kirby Vieira]

A Co0medy...

Enzo, please post the name and e-mail address of one of the responsible sales professionals at the dealership, so those of us who are interested can communicate with him.

 

[saber]

This is another reason not to own a "Ford" GT. If this thing was a F430 Ferrari do you think this is how you would be treated, I doubt it.

You must be kidding me. :bs

 

[ByeEnzo]

Kirby, I don't want to antagonize them too much during the "discovery phase" of this process. Letters are going out as we speak from my attorney. The dealership is Charlie Hillard Ford, here in Fort Worth, TX
817-370-5000. I can't seem to find the email on their website. Anyway, you guys are welcome to call them to ask questions about a wrecked GT? I'm out of the loop for now (letting the legal guys do their thing), and you can say that you read about some poor schmuck on a GT owner's website.

 

[B O N Y]

Kirby, I don't want to antagonize them too much during the "discovery phase" of this process. Letters are going out as we speak from my attorney. The dealership is Charlie Hillard Ford, here in Fort Worth, TX
817-370-5000. I can't seem to find the email on their website. Anyway, you guys are welcome to call them to ask questions about a wrecked GT? I'm out of the loop for now (letting the legal guys do their thing), and you can say that you read about some poor schmuck on a GT owner's website.

For what it is worth, one has to be careful what one says and writes. Anybody can sue anyone. There was a case a couple of years ago that the VW dealer in Atlanta sued a customer that felt their service was mediocre. The forum group put up the $ for the defense, and I doubt it ever went to trial. Just another 2 cents worth. What a fiasco.

 

[ByeEnzo]

Here's the big picture as it stands on Fri night. I finally got a good look at my car up on a lift at the body shop. Looks like the left side of the nose and front aero dam got most of the damage due to the R side wheels hanging off the road surface onto the shoulder etc. No damage to the frame and or suspension up front. The front pan had damage due to the battery having blown up (see my initial post). There is some corrosion on the aluminium under pieces in the midportion of the car due to runoff of the acid. They didn't address this when they checked the battery etc. Shows how thorough this service dept was. The remainder of the underpanels are without abrasions or damage. The rear air diffusers are damaged on the L side also and I have asked for this piece to be removed so I can check its connections with the rear chasis. What I learned is that the nosepiece is made of plastic like most bumpers, not carbon fibre as I had previously thought. They have ordered an OEM nosepiece. All the parts are available from their shipment center in Memphis, TN. So at this time the damages amount to about $6K. I am inclined to have someone else (my own estimator or classic/collectable car expert) look at the car. I'm also going to have my attorney send off some missles to corporate Ford and AutoNation so someone can come down from above on these guys for the way I have been treated . I think if they had been honest from the beginning and didn't insinuate that I caused some of the damage myself, then I wouldn't be so inclined to seek legal advice. I went through the car from above and below with the body shop supervisor in a very thorough and stepwise manner. Will sleep on my options for a few days. AC

 

[Kirby Vieira]

A Comedy...

I just e-mailed a very serious offer to Charlie Hillard Ford to purchase the subject GT after all repairs are completed and they certify the condition to be "as new". I am looking for another GT to have converted to a GTX1 and, although I prefer a new car, this one would be good potential candidate at $100,000, which was my offer. If someone else thinks it's worth more, have at it.

 

[canibl]

one thing regarding the nose piece or any other body panel....the dealership receives them from factory unpainted. It is then the dealership that will paint to the best of their ability such panel and hopefully it will perfectly match the rest of the car. Knowing what this dealership has done (or hasn't done for that matter) thus far, I would be extremely cautious.

 

[ByeEnzo]

I agree with concerns about the paint match and voiced this to the chief of the auto body. Next week I will get an independent appraisal of damage factoring in diminished value. I got a good referral for this from John Draneas.

 

[B O N Y]

I just e-mailed a very serious offer to Charlie Hillard Ford to purchase the subject GT after all repairs are completed and they certify the condition to be "as new". I am looking for another GT to have converted to a GTX1 and, although I prefer a new car, this one would be good potential candidate at $100,000, which was my offer. If someone else thinks it's worth more, have at it.

...a great example why the dealer's name and city should have not been published... as if this fiasco is not complicated enough :frown :thumbsdow :willy

...by now the dealer has to be aware of FORDGTFORUM so keep this in mind.

...Draenas ref's should be invaluable in helping you through this muck-up

 

[B O N Y]

Here's the big picture as it stands on Fri night. I finally got a good look at my car up on a lift at the body shop. Looks like the left side of the nose and front aero dam got most of the damage due to the R side wheels hanging off the road surface onto the shoulder etc. No damage to the frame and or suspension up front. The front pan had damage due to the battery having blown up (see my initial post). There is some corrosion on the aluminium under pieces in the midportion of the car due to runoff of the acid. They didn't address this when they checked the battery etc. Shows how thorough this service dept was. The remainder of the underpanels are without abrasions or damage. The rear air diffusers are damaged on the L side also and I have asked for this piece to be removed so I can check its connections with the rear chasis. What I learned is that the nosepiece is made of plastic like most bumpers, not carbon fibre as I had previously thought. They have ordered an OEM nosepiece. All the parts are available from their shipment center in Memphis, TN. So at this time the damages amount to about $6K. I am inclined to have someone else (my own estimator or classic/collectable car expert) look at the car. I'm also going to have my attorney send off some missles to corporate Ford and AutoNation so someone can come down from above on these guys for the way I have been treated . I think if they had been honest from the beginning and didn't insinuate that I caused some of the damage myself, then I wouldn't be so inclined to seek legal advice. I went through the car from above and below with the body shop supervisor in a very thorough and stepwise manner. Will sleep on my options for a few days. AC

...don' want to badger, but can you answer if this damage will appear on CARFAX... A MAJOR ISSUE

 

[ByeEnzo]

According to the body shop supervisor, the paint and body work would stay on the body shop records for 3 yrs and then get deleted. As for the battery acid damage, that's warranty work that would be attached to Fords service records of the car. No Car-fax listing according to him.

 

[B O N Y]

According to the body shop supervisor, the paint and body work would stay on the body shop records for 3 yrs and then get deleted. As for the battery acid damage, that's warranty work that would be attached to Fords service records of the car. No Car-fax listing according to him.

...if it was me, I decided to cut my losses and take the damaged car back, one thing I would do, is make certain that any concealed damaged that surfaces later is covered, and that there would be no carfax report.
Lastly, I would demand that the dealer pays MY expert to inspect the completed job.

...the body shop manager is NOT a legal representative of the company. I am sure he will verbally give you the winning lotto numbers only to deny it when you loose. Get it in writing by an authorized representative of the dealer, which means a corporate officer.

Question for the experts, I know for example MBZ Germany uses a paint system that for some reasons can't be reproduced stateside. Thus after a period of years the fading of repainted panels will be obvious. Is this true on the GT? If so, Bye should demand that the panels that need to be replaced are painted by the factory.


...does anyone on this forum understand exactly where Carfax gets their data from? I would assume the first two sources of data would be mandatory police reports required in some states and insurance claims? what other sources are there?? ...inquirying minds want to know :lol

 

[drive4fun]

To those asking if this will be captured by CARFAX, it might occur that the concern is an ability to hide this episode from some future buyer: a buyer that may, in 12 or 24 months, be running a thread here on how some creep sold him a GT w/o disclosing a prior accident--an accident bad enough to trigger the sale of his new car.

The fine distinctions of a sin of ommission vs. a sin of commission are not likely to effect the definition of personal integrity. I do find the harsh language re the dealer's behavior next to questions on the future disclosure of the event to be in moral conflict.

I really empathize with Enzo's plight here, but I hope he is committed to acting with full disclosure if he ever ends up selling his GT--whether or not CARFAX notes the incident. Such behavior is what makes him different than the dealer.

That's my two cents!

 

[barondw]

According to the body shop supervisor, the paint and body work would stay on the body shop records for 3 yrs and then get deleted. As for the battery acid damage, that's warranty work that would be attached to Fords service records of the car. No Car-fax listing according to him.

Enzo

You can get Ford to set replacement body panels already sprayed. I know it has been been done for a customer (not me). That way the paint would probably be the best match possible.

BTW screw CarFax it only has what is sometimes reported. Great to see if the car has a salvage title but other than that worthless in my opinion.

Dave

 

[B O N Y]

To those asking if this will be captured by CARFAX, it might occur that the concern is an ability to hide this episode from some future buyer: a buyer that may, in 12 or 24 months, be running a thread here on how some creep sold him a GT w/o disclosing a prior accident--an accident bad enough to trigger the sale of his new car.

The fine distinctions of a sin of ommission vs. a sin of commission are not likely to effect the definition of personal integrity. I do find the harsh language re the dealer's behavior next to questions on the future disclosure of the event to be in moral conflict.

I really empathize with Enzo's plight here, but I hope he is committed to acting with full disclosure if he ever ends up selling his GT--whether or not CARFAX notes the incident. Such behavior is what makes him different than the dealer.

That's my two cents!

great points, however nobody is suggesting being untruthful, the issue is deminished value. If the car is noted on Carfax it will have deminished value. End of story.

when I buy a car, I always ask if the car has been painted, I usually can tell (between eyeballing and a paint thickness guage), if someone reports "no" and it has been, the first red flag goes up. Then the next question is why has it been painted.

no doubt if a car is repaired after an incident without a police report or insurance claim it will not appear on Carfax. The buyer will have to ascertain
if the car has been repaired and if so has it been done correctly.

in a perfect world the dealer's GM would have been there to meet BYENZO, tell him he will replace the car, and send him off with his lady to the best day spa followed by dinner for two with fine wine.

not knowing Texas consumer law, it appears that the legal expenses are his.
Enzo will have to determine what damages he has incurred, what it may cost him to get a new GT and if all this, including the time, emotional toll is really worth it.

 

[B O N Y]

Enzo

You can get Ford to set replacement body panels already sprayed. I know it has been been done for a customer (not me). That way the paint would probably be the best match possible.

BTW screw CarFax it only has what is sometimes reported. Great to see if the car has a salvage title but other than that worthless in my opinion.

Dave

Dave, GREAT to know you can get factory painted panels, that has to be the only way to fly. Regarding CarFax, I can't agree. Will confirm that a wrecked piece of junk can have a clean tittle and no Carfax. :cheers

 

[ByeEnzo]

I'd be straight up and tell any prospective buyer that the nose had been replaced by a factory OEM nosepiece. What I'm currently trying to figure out, through an appraiser, is the diminished value due to a replaced nosepiece and air diffusers. At this time I have 4 other collectable vehicles (a '67 big block Vette, 2 '60's Jag XKE's and '62 Mini Cooper S). Each car is different in terms of state of restoration, originality, matching numbers etc. I keep meticulous records of any work done or parts replaced. When I'm old and sell of the collection, that's when all the paperwork, etc. will come in handy.
The Corvette market currently is quite hot for example. Watch the upcoming Barrett-Jackson. Cars going for $150K and higher. Some vehicles have dubious provenance and papers since people are trying to capitalize on the muscle car craze. My Vette is mostly original with a frame-on restoration. Matching numbers motor and tranny. The rear end was a 3.08 when new, but now I have a 3.70 in it. One of the heads is date coded for 1968 as someone must have blown up the valve train rat racing it in the past. If I went to sell the Vette, these are the things I know and would disclose. This is the perspective I have as a small time collector.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

So I think I have a thread that you should read. Please read it ALL in its entirety. A Viper owner ran into a similar situation as you have. His Viper was totalled though, however, the advice and ultimate outcome was unpresedented. It was recently updated that he received an additional 150k over the replacement costs of his car, for punitive damages.

READ the Thread !! You will gain a LOT of insight from it, and have a MUCH better understanding of how to fight this battle and win. Also contact the poster, he is a good guy, and will be more then happy to assist with any questions you may have:

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/sh...=408327&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Jon

 

[drive4fun]

Bye Enzo--
You Might Enjoy The Current Issue Of Sports Car Mkt--as It Has A Good Article On Matching Numbers In A '63 Split Owned By Martin.
Good Info And A Bit Of Humor.