250+ mph TESLA Roadster


Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,362
Washington State
They said they already have 30 deposits for the Founder's Edition ($250k total cost) Roadster. Deposit requirement: $45k and Remaining purchase portion: $200k due within 10 days. The regular Roadster is $45k down and the remaining portion due upon delivery. Did I mention this vehicle is scheduled to arrive in October 2020.

Why anyone would give any business or individual what essentially amounts to an interest free loan of indeterminate duration to purchase something which the aforementioned individual or business may or may not actually produce is a complete mystery to me.

Buuuuuut, I have on occasion been told I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer...so...
 

Silverbullitt

GT Owner
Mar 3, 2006
1,757
Lago Vista, TX
My experience with Solar is pretty much the total opposite of your experience, Chip - perhaps primarily due to the higher electricity expense here in SoCal? In the last days of 2012 ( I remember working on the roof on Christmas Day!) we finished the installation of solar panels here at our house. I wanted to get my Fed Tax rebate in 2013 hence the urgency to get the system completed and on-line by year's end. Unlike virtually everyone else, Ryan and I did the installation ourselves. My total out of pocket was $14K and we used micro inverters so I can monitor the individual performance of each panel through their entire lifespan. The Feds refunded me $4200 (30%) and I got another $1500 or so from the state. Prior to the solar installation, my electricity cost over the 3 previous years (2010-2012) was ~$5,400/year. We're generating about 14MWh per year and since installation my electricity costs have been ZERO. Payback for me was about 18 months and even if I didn't have the rebates, I would have been whole in 30 months. Quite frankly, this has been a real eye-opener for me... solar has arrived! IMO, there's a lot of companies making a lot of money in solar these days and in many cases, masking the real value that is there. Granted, most people would have to pay for installation costs, but those prices should be getting lower and lower with the advent of better, easier, more modular solutions. (Many of the "financing" options seem a little crazy to me.)

But with the shop, the compressor, the lights, welders, shop AC, etc., we consume pretty much all of the 14MWh we generate annually. However, I still have room to add more panels if needed and if I were to add another 10-12 panels (another 5-6MWh), I could EASILY generate enough power for an electric vehicle. So, my conclusion is that for high sunshine states, powering an electric vehicle is a no-brainer. However, still not sure if I want to drive one!

I own a Model S75. It’s the slowest one made. I beat a modded C5 vette this weekend. The car and house is powered by 52 panels. Payback is 6 years in TX with lower electric rates. No guessing or theories here. Our monthly fuel(gas) cost is more than halved. The bells and whistles in the car include adaptive cruise and autopilot. In rush hour traffic I’m pretty much a passenger. If I go on a road trip the free supercharger network charges the car at about 300 mph. So road trips are free. Don’t drive one, you will buy it. I continue to have 3 Fords in the garage, 2 hybrids and the GT. Love them all.
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,783
Scottsdale, Arizona
.......the free supercharger network charges the car at about 300 mph.

How do you plug in the cord while you're going that fast?
 

Silverbullitt

GT Owner
Mar 3, 2006
1,757
Lago Vista, TX
How do you plug in the cord while you're going that fast?

It’s tricky, but I have done it.
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,783
Scottsdale, Arizona
I own a Model S75. It’s the slowest one made. I beat a modded C5 Vette this weekend. The car and house is powered by 52 panels. Payback is 6 years in TX with lower electric rates. No guessing or theories here. Our monthly fuel (gas) cost is more than halved. The bells and whistles in the car include adaptive cruise and autopilot. In rush hour traffic I’m pretty much a passenger. If I go on a road trip the free supercharger network charges the car at about 300 mph. So road trips are free. Don’t drive one, you will buy it. I continue to have 3 Fords in the garage, 2 hybrids and the GT. Love them all.

Electricity rates are relatively low here in AZ. The 125 panels at my Phoenix store generate an average of $440 per month in electricity (15% of the stores monthly usage). So 52 panels at my home would put out about $200 per month. In the summer here my electric bill is about $1000 per month so 52 panels would only cover about 20% of my home electric bill without adding an electric car to the mix. Even though I took advantage of all of the subsidies available I still think it sucks that other people are FORCED to contribute to my system, your system, your Tesla purchase, and those FREE supercharger stations that are anything but free. Somebody else is paying for them. That's my bitch. I'm cool with solar, Tesla, windmills, whatever. If people want that stuff then buy it, but making society pick up 2/3 of the cost of my solar installation and 30+K of the cost of a new luxury Tesla is nuts. It is what it is and if I think it's bad policy my opinion doesn't matter. Cheers.

Chip
 
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dbk

Admin
Staff member
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jul 30, 2005
15,248
Metro Detroit
https://www.ft.com/content/f5593480-d29a-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9

Tesla truck will need energy of 4,000 homes to recharge, says study

Research raises questions about viability of quick charging time for new vehicle

One of Europe’s leading energy consultancies has estimated that Tesla’s electric haulage truck will require the same energy as up to 4,000 homes to recharge, calculations that raise questions over the project’s viability.*

The US electric carmaker unveiled a battery-powered truck earlier this month, promising haulage drivers they could add 400 miles of charge in as little as 30 minutes using a new “megacharger” to be made by the company.*

John Feddersen, chief executive of Aurora Energy Research, a consultancy set up in 2013 by a group of Oxford university professors, said the power required for the megacharger to fill a battery in that amount of time would be 1,600 kilowatts.

That is the equivalent of providing power for 3,000-4,000 “average” houses, he told a London conference last week, and is 10 times as powerful as Tesla’s current network of “superchargers” for its electric cars.*

Tesla declined to comment on the calculations.
......

Mr Feddersen used the example of the Tesla truck to highlight the need for greater debate around how grid infrastructure will need to be adapted to meet demand for electric vehicles.*

“There are smart and dumb ways to incorporate this level of capacity requirement into the system, but either way, fully electrified road transport will need a large amount of new infrastructure,” he told the Financial Times.*

Other experts in battery technology have claimed that charging a truck in half an hour would require technology exceeding anything available.

“The fastest chargers today can support up to around 450kW charging, so it’s not clear yet how Tesla will achieve their desired charging speeds,” said Colin McKerracher, head of advanced transport at Bloomberg New Energy Finance, a consultancy. “One option may be to segment the battery somehow and actually charge different segments simultaneously. This adds additional costs and we haven't seen anything like that done at anywhere near this power output.”

National Grid, which oversees Britain’s electricity system, has suggested that in the most extreme scenario, electric vehicles could create as much as 18 gigawatts of additional demand for power at peak times in the UK by 2050.*

This is the equivalent capacity of nearly six nuclear power stations on the scale of the Hinkley Point project under construction in the south-west of England.*

Industry experts believe strains on the system could be reduced by using “smart chargers” that only re-boot vehicle batteries when the grid is able to cope, rather than at peak times, such as after work.
....
 

dbk

Admin
Staff member
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jul 30, 2005
15,248
Metro Detroit
That last sentence is the important part.

Social engineering headed your way. Should be extremely obvious.
 

FENZO

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 7, 2008
1,518
Lafayette, CO
Isn't the BS clickbait title an attempt at social engineering?

4,000 homes worth to provide 1,600kW? Would you like me to explain how stupid that is?

No argument the infrastructure doesn't currently exist for fleets upon fleets of electric 18 wheelers, but I'm pretty sure there was a time when your primary concern driving a car was where the next fill-up was gonna come from.

Agreed subsidies are BS. You can't throw a rock around here without hitting a tesla... but it's all here to stay. He is just working the system.
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Hey I'm better off than average my home has 92 kilowatts. I guess it would still take a super long time to charge a big rig.
 

twobjshelbys

GT Owner
Jul 26, 2010
6,213
Las Vegas, NV
Apparently the British have realized "the grid" would need some serious redesign and expansion, but those trying to push us to EVs in the US think our system must be immune :) More realistically they have their heads buried in the sand. High density areas will have to deal with it first.
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,783
Scottsdale, Arizona
4,000 homes worth to provide 1,600kW? Would you like me to explain how stupid that is?

Yes I would because I’d like to know. What would the proper figure be? I sell auto propane, E-85, biodiesel, and I looked into putting an electric car supercharger in at my stores. A big part of my power bill is a “peak demand” charge. I was told that A. people won’t pay as charging is free elsewhere, B. the charger uses a ton of electricity and depending on how much it’s used could cost me $500 to $1000 a month because it would spike the stores peak demand in addition to the power usage.

If it wasn’t super expensive I thought it might bring in some extra store & carwash business. After looking at the total expense I said screw it. Right now a lot of super chargers are free (like most internet content in the beginning) but it’s not going to stay that way. Soon the chargers will be metered and they’ll take credit cards. A road use tax will be applied at some point as well. Cheers.

Chip
 

FENZO

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 7, 2008
1,518
Lafayette, CO
Yes I would because I’d like to know. What would the proper figure be?

First notice they qualify the homes as “…’average’ houses”. I don’t think they are referring to average homes, as in an average priced neighborhood, rather an average use across all homes. This is misleading because I would consider using a “megacharger” as peak use. Is it charging 24/7/365?

Why do I think that? They mention the power required to fill a battery to add 400 miles in 30 mins to be 1,600kW. Presumably that’s from Tesla’s claim that their trucks use <2kWh/mi, so 400 miles would require 800kWh. To transfer that in 30 mins would require a continuous 1,600kW, as they mention. From a quick internet search (link below), the average yearly household consumption in the UK is 4,648 kWh/yr, which translates to a continuous power use of 0.53kW. 1,600/0.53=3,019 homes – which is how they got the 3,000 – 4,000 number, perhaps also factoring in inefficiencies. They are comparing average use energy to peak use energy, which is stupid.

Using their math and assuming constant use: Let’s say for the sake of argument you had two chargers in alternate use so you could get a truck through every 30 mins, that would be 48 trucks per day, or 17,280 trucks per year. That’s 6,912,000 miles! So yes, 7 million truck miles would consume the same energy as 3,019 homes in the UK. That website also reports the US household consumption as 11,698kWh/yr, so it would only take 1,198 equivalent house units for the 7 million truck miles. That’s 2,755 trips from Orlando to Los Angeles.

Taking a look at my electric bill for Oct, I paid $38.93 for 709.9kWh. My electric bill doesn’t show a “peak demand charge”, so using the average it would cost me $42.97 per 400 mi - 30 min charge. Is that good? I dunno, but that is $0.11 per mi and doesn’t sound bad compared to a truck getting 10mpg which would equate to 40 gals, which at $4 per gal is $160 or $0.40 per mi.

Again, I don’t know how the infrastructure is able to change to support this, but the fantastic claim of that article sure seems to have an agenda. :wink

http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity-consumption
 

PeteK

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Apr 18, 2014
2,488
Kalama, Free part of WA State
Neighbors of mine just bought a Model X for $140K. They don't know how to spell "payback" let alone "amortize." <sigh>
 

BtwoG

GT Owner
Dec 8, 2013
1,047
Atlanta, GA
http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2017/11...d-Roadster-Are-Physically-Impossible-7742167/

Basing performance claims on future, undeveloped technology? Musk would never do such a thing.
 

soroush

Ford Gt Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 8, 2007
5,256
but on the eve of the original delivery dates, Musk will introduce a new 400 mph all-electric driverless motorcycle for 2023. His desk will now be on the other side of the plant. The toll on him will be heavy.


:rofl
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,783
Scottsdale, Arizona
Diesel powered Tesla’s.

Gentlemen,

This morning I drove to my local clear bra shop in Scottsdale to get some more things covered on my ‘06 GT. When I pulled around to the back of their shop this massive diesel generator was running making a tremendous amount of noise. After I got my car into the shop the owner told an employee to “close the damn door!” They bitched about having to keep their back door and windows closed on nice days because that huge diesel generator runs all day, morning till night. Turns out....

When Tesla put a dealership in two doors down their superchargers overloaded the electrical service in the entire complex and shut everything down. There was no way the owner was going to rewire the whole complex to get enough electricity in to cope with the peak demand required so the only solution was for Tesla to run a massive diesel generator morning till night to feed their super chargers. The thing has a big fuel tank that needs to be filled every day. It pollutes the whole complex with noise and diesel exhaust morning till night so that people can drive zero emission cars. Nuts.

My stores use a ton of electricity and I’ve got some high demand equipment. The average person has no idea of how difficult and expensive it is to install and operate super high demand electricity. They think you just plug something in and it works. Until your wife tries to run her 1600 watt hair drier at your mom’s 60 year old home and it blows the breakers. Lawmakers and regulators have no idea how much additional capacity and infrastructure willl be necessary to make widespread electric cars and especially semi’s work. But as an old professor of mine would say, “Reality is unaffected by and indifferent to your beliefs and desires”.

Chip
 
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Special K

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 23, 2016
1,781
Franklinton, LA
So what your saying is those Teslas around the area are Diesel powered? Oh well, at least the Diesel is green... Actually, it’s probably red... That’s a way to beat road tax...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Cobrar

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jun 24, 2006
4,027
Metro Detroit
....When Tesla put a dealership in two doors down their superchargers overloaded the electrical service in the entire complex and shut everything down. There was no way the owner was going to rewire the whole complex to get enough electricity in to cope with the peak demand required so the only solution was for Tesla to run a massive diesel generator morning till night to feed their super chargers. The thing has a big fuel tank that needs to be filled every day. It pollutes the whole complex with noise and diesel exhaust morning till night so that people can drive zero emission cars. Nuts.

Here in Michigan we have the option to avail ourselves of a less expensive rate for residential electricity, if we permit the service to be 'interruptible' in design. It is most often utilized in A/C services that may be temporarily switched 'off' to offer the power companies some temporary relief when total demand is at peak levels.

Wonder how long it will be before I have my service 'interrupted' so that the local grid can support a bunch of electric cars needing to be charged?
 

FENZO

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 7, 2008
1,518
Lafayette, CO
Let's face it - combustion engines are only about 25% efficient. Add in all the fuel it takes to deliver the fuel, and idling, and lawnmowers, etc., it has to be much lower than that overall.

I'd like to see power plants next to refineries burning some of the fuel efficiently and cleanly to pump out electricity as a short term compromise. But.. batteries, like solar cells, are made from poison. Ugh... who knows?! I hope our children are smart enough to figure this shit out cause we are on an unsustainable path.

It would be absurd to have a gas powered hair dryer (was that a commercial?), eventually cars will be seen that way IMO. Fortunately after my death.
 

PeteK

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Apr 18, 2014
2,488
Kalama, Free part of WA State
" I hope our children are smart enough to figure this shit out cause we are on an unsustainable path."

Yeah, we've only been running on fossil fuels for a century or so (nearly two centuries if you count coal/steam power). Personally, I think it's too early to tell. :lol