2020 Corvette thoughts?

[ENZO BTR]

After seeing it in person and sitting in it I’m still conflicted. The exterior styling falls apart after the side glass, and the interior...

Regardless of anyone’s opinion, keep this in mind — the Bowling Green plant recently had massive upgrades for production capability, and seeing the new price point explains why. They will sell A LOT of these, which is great for GM but not-so-great for the buyers. As with every previous Corvette the long-term value will...not exist, because there will be a million on the secondary market within a couple years.

Plenty of people will say “I don’t buy cars for investments, blah-blah-blah.” Great, glad you’ve got money to burn. Me? While I don’t expect to retire on car purchases (that would be dumb), I also can’t throw money away. New cars, by nature, are atrocious investments, but some are much worse than others. Porsche 911s, for instance, hold their value quite well.

When I start spending over $50k I have to know a vehicle will retain some percentage of its original value (I guess I’ve been spoiled by Ford GTs...).

You can already buy a 2016 Corvette for $35,000. Go into C6 era and you can get a ZR1 for $20K. Talk about bang for your buck! Corvettes make exceptional used car performance buys. Probably the best out there.

Getting one new is too much of a money loser for me, even by new car standards.

And the people who pay over sticker for new Corvettes to be a first-on-the-blockers?

 

[franimal007]

I say, it is about time they came out with the mid engine, great bargain price, but really not very attractive, especially if compared to the 05 06 GTs. Last great corvette in my opinion was the c-2, have a 66, but certainly not a GM man especially after they took the bail out

I could not agree more, I will not buy any GM products due to the corruption of that bailout.

 

[GTinTN]

I am guessing GM believes there is pent-up demand for vettes with a mid-engine design. When the first year of C7s came out, I believe I read that sales were well over 40K cars. Now with the mid-engine version, the article mentions they will be producing right hand drive versions. Will be interesting to see what the actual sales numbers are...

 

[ChipBeck]

Gentlemen,

Back in the 1980's at a GM dealer conference we were asked to give our factory reps feedback on current products. The Japanese makers were starting to eat our lunch with more advanced and far more efficient overhead cam 4-valve engines. I asked "How long is GM going to stick with these heavy obsolete push-rod, two-valve engines?" No answer. "Are you going to allow foreign makers permanent superiority in engine design?" No answer. I'm not being dramatic here, they literally didn't answer.

Fast forward almost 40 years and GM is introducing their all new mid-engine Corvette. And what do they power their hottest sports car with?........A push-rod, 2 valve V-8. I genuinely think GM would rather go bankrupt again rather than change from that ancient design. But hey, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds is nothing to sneeze at. Like the rear engine design of the Porsche 911 Chevy has made that old V-8 work pretty damn well.

The previous comment "styling by committee" nails it. Too many cooks all trying too hard have spoiled the broth here. Tack on several more space ship black moldings to add drama and it gets worse, not better. But then, perhaps I'm too harsh. The car is a killer buy, Corvettes always have been. And it should be great fun to drive.

I'll point out one big advantage it has over the new Ford GT. At a track day you can drive that new Corvette at the limit and if you do blow it and end up buried in a tire wall it will only ruin your day, not your whole year. All the best.

Chip

 

[Special K]

Gentlemen,

Back in the 1980's at a GM dealer conference we were asked to give our factory reps feedback on current products. The Japanese makers were starting to eat our lunch with more advanced and far more efficient overhead cam 4-valve engines. I asked "How long is GM going to stick with these heavy obsolete push-rod, two-valve engines?" No answer. "Are you going to allow foreign makers permanent superiority in engine design?" No answer. I'm not being dramatic here, they literally didn't answer.

Fast forward almost 40 years and GM is introducing their all new mid-engine Corvette. And what do they power their hottest sports car with?........A push-rod, 2 valve V-8. I genuinely think GM would rather go bankrupt again rather than change from that ancient design.

My thoughts exactly, but I think I know why. I do believe the new C8 corvette represents the best engineering capabilities of GM. With that being said, understanding the difficult engineering challenges of building a mid engine car from scratch (as with the new GT), I believe if they didn’t go with what they know (6.2l push rod, 2V), the car would be another few years from production (if it were ever to be built). Ford, and even Dodge for that matter, has been out pacing GM as of late in regards to technology and the margin continues to grow wider.

 

[KennethClay]

they will sell A LOT of these, which is great for GM but not-so-great for the buyers. As with every previous Corvette the long-term value will...not exist, because there will be a million on the secondary market within a couple years.

Plenty of people will say “I don’t buy cars for investments, blah-blah-blah.” Great, glad you’ve got money to burn. Me? While I don’t expect to retire on car purchases (that would be dumb), I also can’t throw money away. New cars, by nature, are atrocious investments, but some are much worse than others. Porsche 911s, for instance, hold their value quite well.

You can already buy a 2016 Corvette for $35,000. Go into C6 era and you can get a ZR1 for $20K. Talk about bang for your buck! Corvettes make exceptional used car performance buys. Probably the best out there.

Getting one new is too much of a money loser for me, even by new car standards.

Well, just under 9,700 Corvettes were sold in 2018--not many in a US market that absorbed 17.2 million cars last year. BMW sold approximately 75,000 new 3 and 4 series cars in 2018 which (at the high end) are priced similarly to the new Corvette. The market can absorb a lot of cars, though it's fair to say that the more Corvettes they produce the more they're likely to depreciate.

Regarding depreciation, you are right that new cars depreciate quickly. The 2016 corvette you referenced stickered for around $60k, so the $35k price you mentioned represents about a 40% drop over approx. 4 years, which is pretty standard fare. Some cars depreciate even more quickly, so for a sports car these have held up ok.

You're not correct about Porches--they drop like a rock over the first 3 or 4 years (except for the numbered cars like the 911R), and then tend to stabilize and eventually appreciate a at least a little off of the trough. I bought a 997 turbo a while ago. It had under 10,000 miles on it, and I paid about 35-40% less than what the first buyer paid. He or she paid big dollars per mile driven! The Porsche SUVs are absurdly cheap in the used market. You can find a Gen 1 Cayenne for as little as $5,000.

 

[Xcentric]

I'm only gonna say one thing. But it needs to be said and nobody has said it.

3,600 pounds.

C&D: "Chevy is being coy on weight by only divulging a dry-weight figure of 3366 pounds. That implies a curb weight of roughly 3600 pounds, which is about 150 pounds heavier than the C7 (which itself gained 100 pounds over the C6). That makes it far heavier than the mid-engined cadre, more than 400 pounds above the lightest, such as the Cayman and the McLarens. Only the Audi R8 and the Acura NSX, which is laden with electric motors and a battery pack, weigh more."

The force fed versions will be heavier.

It's cheap because they could not afford lightweight materials. It's introduction was delayed because, among other things, they bent frames in a futile attempt to shave weight.

Plenty of trunk space though for the gold chains, boxes of cigars, and chest hair curling irons.

1,100 (!!!) lbs more than a 4C.

I'm gonna say one more thing. I have to admire the pushrod engine. It is efficient, lightweight, easily packaged, revs, has low end grunt where you need it, and still meets all global emissions standards. Sounds great too.

 

[Sinovac]

You said you were only gonna say one thing.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Well, just under 9,700 Corvettes were sold in 2018--not many in a US market that absorbed 17.2 million cars last year.

Assuming the figure above is accurate (and I have 'zero' reason to doubt it), I'm surprised even that many were sold given the mid-engine car's eminent debut. My guess is sales of the '66/'67 'Vettes were probably 'off' as well in anticipation of the radically new-for-the-time '68s.

It will be interesting to see what affect the release of the new car has on the sales figures of the remaining C-7s. Might sales 'boom' as a result of either: (1) heavy discounts to move them out the door, or, (2) 'purests' rejecting the new car - or both? OR might they fall flat because of the new car?

I have no clue...

 

[nautoncall]

After a few years depreciation... what a bargain!! My guess is a few of us will have one after a few years on the secondary market!!

 

[Gary]

Gentlemen,

Back in the 1980's at a GM dealer conference we were asked to give our factory reps feedback on current products. The Japanese makers were starting to eat our lunch with more advanced and far more efficient overhead cam 4-valve engines. I asked "How long is GM going to stick with these heavy obsolete push-rod, two-valve engines?" No answer. "Are you going to allow foreign makers permanent superiority in engine design?" No answer. I'm not being dramatic here, they literally didn't answer.

Fast forward almost 40 years and GM is introducing their all new mid-engine Corvette. And what do they power their hottest sports car with?........A push-rod, 2 valve V-8. I genuinely think GM would rather go bankrupt again rather than change from that ancient design. But hey, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds is nothing to sneeze at. Like the rear engine design of the Porsche 911 Chevy has made that old V-8 work pretty damn well.

The previous comment "styling by committee" nails it. Too many cooks all trying too hard have spoiled the broth here. Tack on several more space ship black moldings to add drama and it gets worse, not better. But then, perhaps I'm too harsh. The car is a killer buy, Corvettes always have been. And it should be great fun to drive.

I'll point out one big advantage it has over the new Ford GT. At a track day you can drive that new Corvette at the limit and if you do blow it and end up buried in a tire wall it will only ruin your day, not your whole year. All the best.

Chip

When I track my 2005 GT that is all i have in my mind. Don't bend it.

 

[ENZO BTR]

Well, just under 9,700 Corvettes were sold in 2018--not many in a US market that absorbed 17.2 million cars last year. BMW sold approximately 75,000 new 3 and 4 series cars in 2018 which (at the high end) are priced similarly to the new Corvette. The market can absorb a lot of cars, though it's fair to say that the more Corvettes they produce the more they're likely to depreciate.

Regarding depreciation, you are right that new cars depreciate quickly. The 2016 corvette you referenced stickered for around $60k, so the $35k price you mentioned represents about a 40% drop over approx. 4 years, which is pretty standard fare. Some cars depreciate even more quickly, so for a sports car these have held up ok.

You're not correct about Porches--they drop like a rock over the first 3 or 4 years (except for the numbered cars like the 911R), and then tend to stabilize and eventually appreciate a at least a little off of the trough. I bought a 997 turbo a while ago. It had under 10,000 miles on it, and I paid about 35-40% less than what the first buyer paid. He or she paid big dollars per mile driven! The Porsche SUVs are absurdly cheap in the used market. You can find a Gen 1 Cayenne for as little as $5,000.

Because Porsche is a premium brand its cars take the same hit experienced by Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc. -- in the first 12-36 months. Luxury new cars are an even worse investment than volume models. But after that, Porsches hold up quite well. The brand has won Kelley Blue Book's Best Resale Value every year since Kelley redefined Porsche as a full-line brand (meaning they had to offer sedans and SUVs, not just performance/sports cars). That distinction only came a few years ago and Porsche has won ever since. Before that Lexus always won the luxury category (Honda or Toyota always win the volume brand category).

Depending on the specific model it might be close between a 911 and Corvette for the first 1-3 years (though I'm sure the 911 does better overall). After those first 1-3 years? Not even close. It's simply economics -- supply versus demand. And used Corvette supply is never an issue. GM currently sells twice as many Corvettes as 911s in an average month. And those two dwarf the sales of R8s, NSXs, AMG GTs, etc. (not that the NSX's limited supply is helping its resale value in the least...but that's a whole 'nother thread...).

Again, performance bang-for-buck, even if you buy new, will be very good for the C8 Corvette. But it's value will tank over time, making a used C8 the REAL bargain in 2-3 years.

Also, with regard to the "under $60K" claim everyone is freaking out about. Let's lay adds on when the first C8 will change hands for "under $60K". Keep in mind:
1. That's without destination and tax
2. That assumes a dealer orders a base-base-base model (no Z51 package, which the C8 needs for its "less than 3 seconds" time)
3. That assumes a dealer doesn't charge markup

I'm sure a C8 will change hands for less than $60K eventually. I'm thinking 2022, when the cheapest 2020 models, all loaded up to at least $75K new, will be worth less than $60K on the used market...because the Z06 has just hit and now the standard Corvette is seen as the has-been/slow version.

 

[KennethClay]

After a few years depreciation... what a bargain!! My guess is a few of us will have one after a few years on the secondary market!!

I think you’re right. It’s a lot of performance for the $, and will be even more so after a few years of depreciation!

While there has been a lot of talk in this thread (and elsewhere) about how this is old technology and the car is heavy, high tech and lightweight, exotic materials cost a lot of money. By definition, anyone that owns a FGT (new or 05-06) has financial resources that most don’t, and they may not find the new Corvette especially appealing. But the broader market will likely feel otherwise.

As for the future, a knowledgable friend (big corvette guy who ALSO has a NFGT) has heard rumors that the Zora model will have 780hp and be a hybrid. We’ll see!

 

[roketman]

I’ll wait till I can serve it in person to decide whether I like it
Actually I’ll wait for Karl Brauer to do his write up on it

 

[Special K]

Another plus for using the 6.2L engine is aftermarket parts will be quicker, cheaper and easier to produce as so many aftermarket companies are already familiar with the design in retrospect to a completely new engine. There’s a reason the Chevy 350 has been the most popular engine to modify for decades... I think the strategy remains the same here with the 6.2L.

 

[AJB]

I have not read much about the car, but I take that it is a SMC /fiberglass body .. and not Carbon fiber or aluminum ??
andy (ajb)

 

[Sinovac]

It’s SMC.

 

[texas mongrel]

The kit car manufacturers must be salivating over the prospect that in a few years you’ll be able to pull cheap engine/transaxle units. I predict a ton of kits based on the C8. Think what an awesome track rat you could build based on the guts of these cars.

 

[SPI]

Gentlemen,

Back in the 1980's at a GM dealer conference we were asked to give our factory reps feedback on current products. The Japanese makers were starting to eat our lunch with more advanced and far more efficient overhead cam 4-valve engines. I asked "How long is GM going to stick with these heavy obsolete push-rod, two-valve engines?" No answer. "Are you going to allow foreign makers permanent superiority in engine design?" No answer. I'm not being dramatic here, they literally didn't answer.

Fast forward almost 40 years and GM is introducing their all new mid-engine Corvette. And what do they power their hottest sports car with?........A push-rod, 2 valve V-8. I genuinely think GM would rather go bankrupt again rather than change from that ancient design. But hey, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds is nothing to sneeze at. Like the rear engine design of the Porsche 911 Chevy has made that old V-8 work pretty damn well.

The previous comment "styling by committee" nails it. Too many cooks all trying too hard have spoiled the broth here. Tack on several more space ship black moldings to add drama and it gets worse, not better. But then, perhaps I'm too harsh. The car is a killer buy, Corvettes always have been. And it should be great fun to drive.


Chip

I love the Last Paragraph...lol....

"I'll point out one big advantage it has over the new Ford GT. At a track day you can drive that new Corvette at the limit and if you do blow it and end up buried in a tire wall it will only ruin your day, not your whole year. All the best."

This Vette replaces my spec Miata .

 

[dr914]

maybe the 60 thousand price was meant to lure in the soon to be discontinued Camaro buyers?