Z06 does it really have a chance?

[bitzman]

What's the chance of a mid-engined rival from GM?

There is little chance the Z06 will beat a Ford GT on a race course owing to cornering superiority of a mid-engined car over a front engined one.

GM cancelled the Cadillac Cien, a mid-engined car powered by their own V-12. They had built two of them.

Does anyone know why they cancelled it? I suspect because it had a carbon fiber frame and that costs a lot of money to make (two or three times the cost of aluminum) and you can only make say three a day (Ford can more Ford GTs a day) .

Is there a mid-engined faction at Cheverolet still existing? Even if there is, by the time they got a mid-engined car ready to produce the Ford GTs of today will by then already be well out of production.

Chrysler had the ME Four Twelve, ready to go, very fast car, sorted out but again they chose carbon fiber for the chassis which would have put it in a different price range. They cancelled work on it awhile back.

So the only thing coming up to challenge the Ford GT besides the already existing Ferrari F430 and lamborghini Gallardo is the Audi LeMans Quattro due out next year, and maybe a mid-engine BMW.

 

[Vic]

bitzman, I agree that a lower polar moment of inertia should result in better lap times, all other things being equal. But all other things are not equal, the biggest difference being weight. The GT is about 300 pounds heavier than the ZO6, which almost negates it's mid-engine advantage in the twisties. You ever have someone heavy ride with you at a familiar track? You can feel it, dontcha? Same difference, only in the GT, the person riding shotgun is a big, 300 pound gorilla. That's a lot of extra mass to accelerate, rotate, and brake. Thats why the lighter ZO6 runs such a close lap time to the FGT, despite it's front engine design, and fewer horsepower. If the ZO6 had another 50 hp or so, it might fare even better. Lotus founder Colin Chapman said something like; "First, you build a great sports car. Then, you add lightness". Those words are almost prophetic, a cosmic revelation of sorts, in sports car development.

I'd still take the GT, of course, I'm just sayin'.

Did you see my answer on your other thread, where you posed the question as to who built the concept car(s)? I think it was Safir, since they own one of them, and recently tried to auction it off at a Krause auction. This is not one of the red, white, and blue cars that rolled up the ramp at Ford's Centenial celebration. It has a fiberglass body, has rolling wheels, sans engine or drive train.

 

[Jason Watt]

Jan Magnussen, the test driver and #64 C6R driver disagrees. :biggrin


On the notorious C6 Z flying through the air photo:

"The photo is taken at Flugplatz. I´m going 240-250 km/h at full throttle in 4th gear and the car is actually jumping twice: After the first jump it lands so hard that it takes off again, as you can see in the second picture. As it lands the second time I have to take a sharp right immediately after.
The car is a standard car with street setup - had it been my racer it would hardly have left the tarmac. At NBR the street car reaches 295 km/h on the long straight in 5th gear (6th gear is an overgear for saving gasoline). At NBR there are no run-off areas like other tracks,. You simply have to stay on the track. When you are halfway around the 20 km, you think it´s a good thing there are only half as many places left you risk running off the track" Jan says.

"The street Corvette has virtually no grip compared to my race car which has a large rear spoiler. But it does have almost as many BHPs as my Le Mans racer and is almost as fast. The rev limiter sets in at 7000 rpms, and it does have more than 500 BHPs. It´s fast."

Also, Dave Hill has repeatedly told gatherings that simply suspension adjustments made be made by the driver to the stock suspension. He said the Ring car was a totally stock car, so if anything was changed, that would have been it.

i

 

[Jason Watt]

Just came across this topic, so I picked up the phone to do some research, and thought I would share a little info:

The above is quite right. The time was set using a standard Z with the only modificationbeing the use of "shaved" tires. The time was then set in the early morning to get the advantage of the cool air.

Jan Magnussen did 10 laps of "The Ring" in a standard C06 the day before, to get used to the the car's handling (they had to wait for a new Z to arrive because the GM testdrivers had blown up the regular Z

Actually Jan was was asking the GM crew if the car had beefed up suspension, but the answer he got was that they wanted to set a bench mark for them selves rather than go for the record, so the car was absolutely standard.. the record was just a bonus the laughs, as he puts the phone down reminding me to be on time for his brothers wedding on Saturday. :biggrin

 

[FGT4me]

During a recent test on a tight track in western Michigan, the Z06 easily embarrassed the new Dodge Viper coupe and ran within 0.3 seconds (on a 92-second lap) of the hairy chested Ford GT. :biggrin

Was that when I was at Gingerman with my viper at Viper Days June 4th and 5th?
Is the guy who owns the white GT on this forum?

If that was the time you speak of, the guy driving the black viper coupe has little track experience and it wasn't his personal car.
Not making excuses for the viper, after all, I now have a GT with a ZO6 on order (still race the viper).

 

[fordification]

here's a vid of the test.

http://release.theplatform.com/content.select?pid=915rS_DqUC5g1rRkqwiklOdQAW0ZDriO&UserName=Unknown

 

[Tenashus]

Hey everyone, I feel like I have to chime in here, I have a 04 Z06 commemorative edition, sticker on this car was 58k, I purchased it for 44k out the door, I put about 10k in the suspension, and engine, which includes 4 autocrossing tires, and 2 ET streets for the drag strip, and 6 Z06 wheels so I wouldnt have to dismount and mount every other day, I can tell you that I have a ten second car in the 1/4 @ 129 MPH, and after I change the tires I can take this thing to Sebring and keep up, if not beat the best of them...My point being, I could have spent another 120,000.00 and got a GT, and money isnt an issue, but the first time I got beat by a car that cost less then half of it, I'ld be embarrassed, its all about dollars per horsepower, this, or any Z06 really, is probably the best bang for the buck, you and take it from the drag strip, to Sebring, and be extremely competitive at any venue, and not be embarrassed to drive it as some of you have implied.....I thought about getting a GT, but really I cant see spending the huge dollars just to get more attention, and the GT is a beautiful car, its definately a show stopper, but not for 180,000.00...I plan to get a new Z06 once all the price hysteria calms down, and they start going for sticker, and I definately will not be embarrased to parade it around like some of you have implied, and I might even go out and buy a new ski boat and a new truck to pull the boat, with all the money I saved by opting for a just as fast, just as pretty, not as rare, but beautiful Z06...

 

[centerpunch]

...its all about dollars per horsepower, this, or any Z06 really, is probably the best bang for the buck...

Hey, everyone!

You want to talk horsepower per dollar? That Z06 ain't shit!

Dollar for dollar, no Z06 will EVER beat this amazing 12 second machine!

http://www.turbovan.net/van.html

Sell that Chevy and get the max horsepower per dollar! Then you can buy TWO ski boats!

 

[saber]

Hey everyone, I feel like I have to chime in here, I have a 04 Z06 commemorative edition, sticker on this car was 58k, I purchased it for 44k out the door, I put about 10k in the suspension, and engine, which includes 4 autocrossing tires, and 2 ET streets for the drag strip, and 6 Z06 wheels so I wouldnt have to dismount and mount every other day, I can tell you that I have a ten second car in the 1/4 @ 129 MPH, and after I change the tires I can take this thing to Sebring and keep up, if not beat the best of them...My point being, I could have spent another 120,000.00 and got a GT, and money isnt an issue, but the first time I got beat by a car that cost less then half of it, I'ld be embarrassed, its all about dollars per horsepower, this, or any Z06 really, is probably the best bang for the buck, you and take it from the drag strip, to Sebring, and be extremely competitive at any venue, and not be embarrassed to drive it as some of you have implied.....I thought about getting a GT, but really I cant see spending the huge dollars just to get more attention, and the GT is a beautiful car, its definately a show stopper, but not for 180,000.00...I plan to get a new Z06 once all the price hysteria calms down, and they start going for sticker, and I definately will not be embarrased to parade it around like some of you have implied, and I might even go out and buy a new ski boat and a new truck to pull the boat, with all the money I saved by opting for a just as fast, just as pretty, not as rare, but beautiful Z06...

I would never be embarrased to drive a corvette. It is a great car! But it is NOT "all about dollars per horsepower" for us owners!

 

[Tenashus]

I do realize that, but the way you guys are talking, its like your saying its "just a corvette", well the whole "corvette" package is pretty incredible if you ask me, in my opinion, if the two cars were at a car show, I guarantee your car would draw allot more attention because so few people can afford them, but at the track, I guarantee more people would be pulling for the underdog "corvette", and I'ld be willing to bet there would be a very good chance that you would get beat with the right driver...I guess what I'm saying is dollars per Horse Power wasnt the correct way to put it, I just think the Corvette is just allot better overall value for the dollar, and it "is" a car you can be proud of, because it has all the horsepower along with all the creature comforts,, I almost agree with you with the excessive plastic stuff, but, GM had to lose the weight somehow........

 

[Kirby Vieira]

Z06 does...

Tenashus, congratulations on the 10 second Z06. I'm happy for you, but sorry it's not bringing you much inner peace. Many GT owners on this Forum also own, or are on the list, for a new Z06. No one has to pay 180,000 for a GT - they can be easily had for msrp or less which is a maximum of 166,945 for an '06 and at least 10,000 less for an '05 manufactured before 7/1/05. Likewise, no one has to pay more than msrp for a Z06. The Z06 is a great car and probably the best performance value of all the new go-fast cars, but it ain't no Ford GT, which, by the way, is much more than an attention getter. Ask the people who have both. You are in very select company, if money is really not an issue, because there are not many fast-car-guys who would not covet a GT. Unless you get the opportunity to drive one or even ride in one, you will probably never understand why.

 

[LEMANSZ]

spot on KIRBY...I like alot of GT owners considered the Z06 and passed for many reasons...build quality, interior, etc., etc...love my GT...the extra buks was worth it..to paraphrse..."this ain;t your daddy's Ford"

 

[barondw]

I believe the build quality of the Z is as good if not better than the GT.

Remember I said build quality, not image, appearance, snob appeal, etc.

Dave

 

[SteveA]

Hey everyone, I feel like I have to chime in here, I have a 04 Z06 commemorative edition, sticker on this car was 58k, I purchased it for 44k out the door, I put about 10k in the suspension, and engine, which includes 4 autocrossing tires, and 2 ET streets for the drag strip, and 6 Z06 wheels so I wouldnt have to dismount and mount every other day, I can tell you that I have a ten second car in the 1/4 @ 129 MPH, and after I change the tires I can take this thing to Sebring and keep up, if not beat the best of them...My point being, I could have spent another 120,000.00 and got a GT, and money isnt an issue, but the first time I got beat by a car that cost less then half of it, I'ld be embarrassed, its all about dollars per horsepower, this, or any Z06 really, is probably the best bang for the buck, you and take it from the drag strip, to Sebring, and be extremely competitive at any venue, and not be embarrassed to drive it as some of you have implied.....I thought about getting a GT, but really I cant see spending the huge dollars just to get more attention, and the GT is a beautiful car, its definately a show stopper, but not for 180,000.00...I plan to get a new Z06 once all the price hysteria calms down, and they start going for sticker, and I definately will not be embarrased to parade it around like some of you have implied, and I might even go out and buy a new ski boat and a new truck to pull the boat, with all the money I saved by opting for a just as fast, just as pretty, not as rare, but beautiful Z06...

Years back I bought a 69 camero and it ripped apart, tube framed it, breaks, suspen., gobbs of alum.hp etc. It was a replica Trans Am car that was just plan o'le nasty. All for less than 40 grand. Oh, and I had money for a race boat as well.....so whats your point?
Here is a pick of the car I got rid of last year 529hp and 506tq. It was a
fantastic car but no GT :frown.

 

[satx]

but the first time I got beat by a car that cost less then half of it, I'ld be embarrassed,

really? I could care less if a mustang/camaro/vette blew by me in my GT........'cuz I'm still the one driving the GT!


regardless of how much you spend on any car there is someone out there that spent less and is faster. There is a reason that someone would be so proud to beat a GT.........think about that.

 

[dbtgt]

I do realize that, but the way you guys are talking, its like your saying its "just a corvette", well the whole "corvette" package is pretty incredible if you ask me, in my opinion, if the two cars were at a car show, I guarantee your car would draw allot more attention because so few people can afford them, but at the track, I guarantee more people would be pulling for the underdog "corvette", and I'ld be willing to bet there would be a very good chance that you would get beat with the right driver...I guess what I'm saying is dollars per Horse Power wasnt the correct way to put it, I just think the Corvette is just allot better overall value for the dollar, and it "is" a car you can be proud of, because it has all the horsepower along with all the creature comforts,, I almost agree with you with the excessive plastic stuff, but, GM had to lose the weight somehow........

Driver skill vs. "the best car" is a cliche - how many drivers in the "inferior" car have we seen kick our a--es at the track or autocross? In back to back laps with the same driver, same course, and same weather conditions the GT consistantly has the fastest times. You yourself characterize the Corvette as "the underdog". The Corvette is an icon of automotive history and a great car in its own right, but it's not a GT. And I'll bet that a "tweeked" GT will prevail over a "tweeked" Corvette anyday - assuming drivers and conditions are equal. :banana JMHO.

 

[AZGT]

really? I could care less if a mustang/camaro/vette blew by me in my GT........'cuz I'm still the one driving the GT!

Couldn't agree more. I did not buy the GT because it was one of the fastest cars. Bought it because it was what I wanted, and it happens to be fast. So, if the Z-06 can run faster, fine. If a Viper is quicker, fine. If grandma's hemi GTX is faster, fine. I'll worry about that when I turn the car into a racer (not) and it matters. I enjoy if for what it is, what it is not doesn't matter. There is ALWAYS somebody faster, and like someone said, for less money. So?

 

[SteveA]

Where'd he go?

 

[Tenashus]

I'm still here, I'm certainly not running and hiding, you guys are acting like your driving a Lamborghini, Ferrari, or even a Porsche, you not even in the same ballfield, bottom line, under the supercharger, roll cage, sheet metal and stripes, there is "Ford" stamped all over it, an overpriced exotic wanna be....The Z06 is probably the best all around performance purchase you can make..so when you guys are at your little get together saying "its only a Z06", think about what them Lamborghini guys are saying about your "Ford"...I would think they would respect a Z06 more for the value as opposed the overpriced GT......The car "isnt" all that, yes its an attention getter, but you look at it a couple times and its forgetable, not that the Z06 is not, but its less then half the price....there will be a time when the GT will saturate the market and you overpriced GT will be even more overpriced !!!!

 

[dbk]

:lol

Done? Have fun back at the Vette boards!

Dave (EB Z06 w/422 c.i)