Who here is using a conventional lead-acid Battery in the GT???

[nota4re]

Considering where the battery is mounted, there is a very good chance that any frontal impact is likely to rupture the battery case. Given the publics fear of hazmat materials, I could imagine how a "minor" fender bender could easily result in a lengthy road closure, while waiting for the hazmat team to arrive. Could this be the reason that Ford chose to go with a AGM battery? Maybe some gov reg.

It is no more vulnerable than any other car, IMO. Many OEM mounting locations have them in the forward part of the engine bay - with only the radiators providing any shielding (yeah, right). At least with the GT battery, it is already practically on the ground (kudos to Ford), and not much beneath it to spill on.

 

[Shadowman]

Bill, I don't know how you are categorizing lead acid batteries, but for me and others it is the familiy of battery types with that technology including, "conventional" GEL cells. The Optima is a unique "Spiral" (marketing BS) absorbed glass mat (AGM) battery. I would venture to say that fewer than 5% of all modern production cars are using an AGM designed battery and as such, if you are implying that use of a non-AGM battery is akin to driving a Model T, then I find your analogy far-fetched.

As for you point that the gauges themselves are faulty - I agree..... This can be easily validated by replacing a bad gauge with a new gauge and then everything is working again (at least for awhile) so at the end of the day, it is the gauge that fails and I further agree that a more robust gauge design may well be the best root solution.

Until and unless that happens, the question is if there are things that we can do to mitigate a gauge failure... essentially insulating the gauge from whatever it is that is causing them to physically fail.

One fact is that we know that the gauges act peculiar when subjected to low voltages. Many owners have experienced a gauge failure but a far greater number of owners have experienced the temporary loss of one or more gauges because of what we commonly believe is a low voltage condition. So, the leap (and it is a leap) is to make the assumption that the temporary, low-voltage related anomolies might be related to the hard failures. Saying that they may be related infers a relation to low-voltage condition - perhaps a "vulnerability" of a poor gauge design. Now is where we differ. I say that the battery in the GT is unique in the production car world... and that anomolies in the battery - low voltage anomolies, might be statistically better in a conventional battery which is used by 90%+ of the automotive world. Somehow, you have twisted what I have said by saying that doing so may substantially increase the chance for a battery blow-up (give me a break) or by replacing the cherished Optima might take us back to the model T days.



I have no idea what you are saying here - I am simply stating a fact that the unique construction of the Optimas may have a higher propensity to be "happy" at a sub-12v level as compared to a more conventional and much more popular (go Model T's !!) automotive battery. You get owners to clean the ground points and I'll encourage owners to consider Optima alternatives and maybe together we will have a small impact on improving this unfortunate situation.

Thank you nota4re

In a long winded manner I meant not to twist anything that you said because as I recall you simply asked how many folks use a conventional lead acid battery or something to this affect. Furthermore my replies had nothing to do with as you stated the “cherished” Optima battery as I have no stake in the company and as for whether the mat/spiral wound technology is as you stated “marketing BS” ; I do not know however what I do know is that my experience with gel cell batteries has been very good.

If you preferred not to have comments shared then you should have considered creating a “poll” rather than opening a thread.

My “only” intent was twofold; not to encourage folks to quickly swap their battery to a conventional lead acid battery aka be drawn to the proverbial light as if this was to be the answer and in doing so share a few valid reasons why; these views as expressed were mine and based on my personal experience and as for whether one follows my lead or not was never the goal but rather to share another view point for folks to “consider”.

As for my comparison to the Model T; I stand firm as battery technology has progressed drastically over the years and the least expensive battery to purchase is the old staple lead acid battery that is not user friendly, can cause significant damage and harm to the vehicle and the person within range if not properly handled this was shared even though “most” have never and will never experience this and yet if you read the recommended handling procedures for these batteries gloves, safety glasses, and proper clothing are there and yet as with far too much safety equipment it is not used because most folks never fail prey to this sort of accident as such become complacent.

Now as for those that have experienced the intermittent gauge failure; specifically folks those that have started their gal and then notice that one or more gauges are not responding and then upon the restarting of her they come to life this is not a battery or voltage issue but rather a “hand shake” issue between the control module and the gauges that failed when the system was brought on line in much the same way as when a computer is loading and it fails to load a device river etc.

I encourage you not to take offense and certainly not take that which I shared personally because it was not directed towards you but rather shared with all that entered into this thread; it should be consider simply another view point shared with this one being based on my personal experiences.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[fjpikul]

Ha, ha, you two guys tear me up. I know lawyers that talk like you two.

 

[BlackICE]

Ha, ha, you two guys tear me up. I know lawyers that talk like you two.

That's because lawyers get paid by the word! :lol

 

[nota4re]

Bill, let me try to make it simple. Wet Cell (flooded), Gel Cell, and Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) are various versions of the lead acid battery. The Optima is a specialized "spiral wound" version of the AGM battery type. (It is NOT a Gel cell as you seem to imply.) I only suggested that owners consider other (more conventional) variations of the lead acid batteries - as are readily available from a multitude of different sources including every auto parts store and even our beloved Wal Mart. Other, more conventional and more readily accessible batteries can be placed in a GT - without fear of explosion or reverting your GT back to Model T technology. Sheesh!

 

[Shadowman]

Bill, let me try to make it simple. Wet Cell (flooded), Gel Cell, and Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) are various versions of the lead acid battery. The Optima is a specialized "spiral wound" version of the AGM battery type. (It is NOT a Gel cell as you seem to imply.) I only suggested that owners consider other (more conventional) variations of the lead acid batteries - as are readily available from a multitude of different sources including every auto parts store and even our beloved Wal Mart. Other, more conventional and more readily accessible batteries can be placed in a GT - without fear of explosion or reverting your GT back to Model T technology. Sheesh!

nota4re; thank you again and it would appear that I need to make myself clear.

My reference to gel cell is a blanket reference to "all': batteries that have a medium within which the acid is retained, gel cell, mat, etc.; thank you for making this clear as I should have chosen my words more carefully and assure you that I will do my best to do so in the future.

It appears to me that the next generation of battery will be the Lithium Ion as these are now being offered by marquees such as Porsche already.

Now as for that which Walmart offers; I have no idea because I do not shop there for Ford GT parts specifically batteries as I use only OEM replacement batteries drop shipped direct from Optima.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[nota4re]

It appears to me that the next generation of battery will be the Lithium Ion as these are now being offered by marquees such as Porsche already.

Agreed. And holy cow.... maybe this battery WILL make windshield replacements seem inexpensive, LOL. I've heard this battery is more than $2,000!!!!!

 

[PL510*Jeff]

That's because lawyers get paid by the word! :lol

+$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Shadowman]

Agreed. And holy cow.... maybe this battery WILL make windshield replacements seem inexpensive, LOL. I've heard this battery is more than $2,000!!!!!

Indeed they are at this time however as the audience increases this will change drastically; meaning become much lower.

Now as to cost or in this case price;

The terms price, cost, and value are not interchangeable. I do look at price however I look closer at the overall cost and the value because in the end an equitable exchange of value/worth is my goal.

All the best

Shadowman

 

[DWR46]

Since I seem to be the one non-believier on this issue, I will just add a few comments that will most probably have others saying bad things about both me and my family. When i switched the GT to the discount store battery, I continued to monitor the voltage in the car as it sat for a number of days and compared it to my monitoring of the factory Optima battery that was less than one year old. The discount store battery consistently held voltage MUCH longer than the Optima did. I would put a charger/maintainer on the system , bring it up to max valtage, disconnect the charger and then take a reading every 24 hours, and the discount store battery holds voltage in the GT for litterly weeks, while the Optima fell off rapidly.

This relates to the gauge issue in my opinion, as I understand the gauges need 10.5 volts to function. Any voltage dip below this level sets some activity that drops the gauges out of the system, or so the shop manual says, as I recall.

As to split cases. again, all I can offer is my experience with high performance cars over the years. I have personally seen three Optimas fail due to split cases (yes, it makes a mess). I cannot remember the last time I have seen a regular battery split a case, except at the junk yard where eventually they would freeze and split. I also have blown up a battery (don't lay a timing light on top of a battey and start the engine!)

No fingers are pointed at anybody or any product, just telling the interested members of my experiences.

 

[Shadowman]

Since I seem to be the one non-believier on this issue, I will just add a few comments that will most probably have others saying bad things about both me and my family. When i switched the GT to the discount store battery, I continued to monitor the voltage in the car as it sat for a number of days and compared it to my monitoring of the factory Optima battery that was less than one year old. The discount store battery consistently held voltage MUCH longer than the Optima did. I would put a charger/maintainer on the system , bring it up to max valtage, disconnect the charger and then take a reading every 24 hours, and the discount store battery holds voltage in the GT for litterly weeks, while the Optima fell off rapidly.

This relates to the gauge issue in my opinion, as I understand the gauges need 10.5 volts to function. Any voltage dip below this level sets some activity that drops the gauges out of the system, or so the shop manual says, as I recall.

As to split cases. again, all I can offer is my experience with high performance cars over the years. I have personally seen three Optimas fail due to split cases (yes, it makes a mess). I cannot remember the last time I have seen a regular battery split a case, except at the junk yard where eventually they would freeze and split. I also have blown up a battery (don't lay a timing light on top of a battey and start the engine!)

No fingers are pointed at anybody or any product, just telling the interested members of my experiences.

"GREAT!!" post

Thank you for sharing your personal experience

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[Empty Pockets]

Since I seem to be the one non-believier on this issue, I will just add a few comments that will most probably have others saying bad things about both me and my family.

Welcome to MY world, '46! :rofl :thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[nota4re]

Since I seem to be the one non-believier on this issue

Thanks for posting your experience, DWR46. There's at least two of us subscribing to this as a potential theory regarding the gauge failures. As I said when I started this thread, I too intend to switch to a conventional lead-acid battery as well. I have seen too many voltage anomolies with the Optimas and if my Fluke can see them, then the on-board electronics can see them too.

Despite the negative

thinking otherwise makes no sense.

comments and the scare tactics of

blow up as they do

, I'm with you to go a more conventional route where we will see more stabilized voltages in more conditions - and hopefully avoid getting bitten by a gauge failure. Giddy up!

 

[centerpunch]

AGM batteries are very easily damaged by overcharging- a single application by a dealer using his roll-around jumper/quick charger can permanently damage the Optima.

Certainly many of the OEM Optima batteries were damaged during their long stays at various dealers.......

 

[shelbyelite]

Ok, being as how we have personally gone through 300+ GTs in house here, I will comment on this thread. Are the gauges crap? I think so. Is a voltage issue causing these crappy gauges to fail? Yes, I believe that is a major factor. We have personally had to replace 10 or more gauges in various cars that have come through our inventory. Everytime we have had a gauge issue, the batteries were weak on the effected car. Also, the issue with the gauges not all coming "on line" has always been a low voltage issue at start up..... ALWAYS! Now, I think the suggestions from all on this thread are a step in the right direction. I personally HATE the optima batteries. I have put several brand new optimas in GTs, just to watch them fail in as little as 1 to 2 months. I think a combination of less than GREAT gauges and less then GREAT batteries are the biggest factor to this problem. I just had to replace a gauge in my personal GT. It's a 1000 mile car. Has done a lot of sitting over the past 5 years. This usually leads to several starts with less than "optimum" battery voltage thus in my opinion giving a greater risk of a gauge failure....

 

[BlackICE]

Any battery that cannot hold a charge (>12.5V) for a least 2 weeks is ready for the dumpster (or recycle bin for the greenies). A fresh flooded cell lead acid is better than a worn out or mis-treated AGM battery. IMO if both types of batteries are factory fresh I will take an AGM over a flooded cell.

 

[BlackICE]

Ok, being as how we have personally gone through 300+ GTs in house here, I will comment on this thread. Are the gauges crap? I think so. Is a voltage issue causing these crappy gauges to fail? Yes, I believe that is a major factor. We have personally had to replace 10 or more gauges in various cars that have come through our inventory. Everytime we have had a gauge issue, the batteries were weak on the effected car. Also, the issue with the gauges not all coming "on line" has always been a low voltage issue at start up..... ALWAYS! Now, I think the suggestions from all on this thread are a step in the right direction. I personally HATE the optima batteries. I have put several brand new optimas in GTs, just to watch them fail in as little as 1 to 2 months. I think a combination of less than GREAT gauges and less then GREAT batteries are the biggest factor to this problem. I just had to replace a gauge in my personal GT. It's a 1000 mile car. Has done a lot of sitting over the past 5 years. This usually leads to several starts with less than "optimum" battery voltage thus in my opinion giving a greater risk of a gauge failure....

Agreed! You probably have the most 1st hand experience too. The problem with buying an Optima is, how do you know if it is factory fresh, vs. old stock that has been quick charged by the vendor?

 

[MTV8]

An aftermarket battery maintainer with a voltage indicator light may be a good piece of insurance to prevent a low voltage start that may potentially damage the gauges.

 

[Shadowman]

Agreed! You probably have the most 1st hand experience too. The problem with buying an Optima is, how do you know if it is factory fresh, vs. old stock that has been quick charged by the vendor?

I have them drop shipped direct and do not purchase them off the shelf

Shadowman

 

[Gulf GT]

Hey Shadowman, where do you have the battery dropped shipped from to avoid getting one that is old? Just took my car out for a ride tonight and the red light on the freeflyer boost gauge came on and my battery tender jr is alternating flashing red/green when connected. I think it is time for a new battery after 4 1/2 years of good service.

Are there any dates or codes on the battery to look for?

Thanks.