Whipple Making Noise, please help me to ID it

[HeritageBruce]

Hi Bruce

No w certainly Dustin is the person to offer the definative answer however I assume and yet must ask;

1. Is there sufficient oil in the gear case; you can look at the site glass while it is sitting still with a mirror or through the back glass of your gal and it should be in the middle of the sight glass.

2. To place the Whipple tensioner in proper position one must completely relax the OEM tensioner and then slide thje Whipple snout belt wrap idler over as far is possible; snug it and then release the OEM tensioner.

Now having asked and said this it sound more mechanical however through the video the audio maybe skewed.

Hang in there

Shadowman

Thanks Bill!!! Followed your advise and checked the oil level in the sight glass, and low and behold, it is BONY DRY :willy Sh*% And there's no signs of oil leakage around the SC. So I guess adding oil back in and check the belt tensions should kill the crickets for good. Hope the lack of oil didn't damage the rotating parts though.

 

[BlackICE]

It's not bone dry. I see some oil through the sight glass. The instructions warn about overfilling it can cause damage and that the level should be between the bottom and middle of the sight glass. Never pass the middle. To be on the safe side I have mine a little below the middle.

Be sure that the car, or more importantly the supercharger is level before you check the oil level. I put a level on the supercharger and adjusted my rolling jacks on my lift to get it level.

 

[HeritageBruce]

So could the level be low enough to cause chirping sound from the pulley when hot?

 

[BlackICE]

If the supercharger is level and the oil level appears to be about 1/4 of the way up the sight glass. I would think this fits the definition of between the bottom and middle and should't cause any problems. Dustin Whipple can give a better answer though, since he has 1000s of time more experience than I do.

 

[Shadowman]

So could the level be low enough to cause chirping sound from the pulley when hot?

Hi Bruce

First of all thank you for the kind words however.....

If the oil level was as I see it in the picture rather than this being a picture of the oil level after you added oil then I would say that this is not the cause of the noise.

The oil in the front case is a very basic splash oil system designed to keep the gears lubricated.

Typically as BlackIce stated; I too fill them to just below the middle of the sight glass and nver look back.

Please confirm when the picture was taken.

All the best

Shadowman

 

[HeritageBruce]

I just took the picture tonight and the car is level. So back to cricket hunting again ack

 

[Empty Pockets]

:shrug:shrug

Hi Bruce

First of all thank you for the kind words however.....

If the oil level was as I see it in the picture rather than this being a picture of the oil level after you added oil then I would say that this is not the cause of the noise.

The oil in the front case is a very basic splash oil system designed to keep the gears lubricated.

Typically as BlackIce stated; I too fill them to just below the middle of the sight glass and nver look back.

Please confirm when the picture was taken.

All the best

Shadowman

What's your take on the fact pushing in on the clutch pedal STOPPED the noise, Bill?

 

[Kingman]

Is there an oil level sight glass on the OEM SC?

 

[nota4re]

Is there an oil level sight glass on the OEM SC?

No. For the OEM unit, you an check the oil by parking the car on level ground and then removing the fill plug (faces forward) with an Allen wrench. Before removing, place a shop rag below the plug. Oil should just start to seep out. If so, put the plug back in and tighten. If no oil comes out, fill until it does. Use only Motorcraft XL-4 synthetic Supercharger fluid. It comes in 4 oz bottles.

 

[soroush]

ok yesterday in the search of infamous chirp we tried some stuff with interesting results, here it goes. as you guys may know my whipple was making the noise from the moment it was installed, it makes the noise at idle, (its real bad at start up) and then gets better, but at 2000 and above it comes back and is very noticable. we loosened the idler pulley on the whipple and moved it away from the sc pulley(toward the passenger side of the car) to reduce the belt wrap around the sc pulley and this definately made the chirping go away. As we tried to push the idler back towards the sc pulley the chirping returned. I will update this as more info becomes available, thank you.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Someone help me out here. I can't visualize the serp belt setup in my mind. Is the belt tension being REDUCED by moving the idler in that direction? Yes or no. :shrug

'Tanks'!

 

[nota4re]

Someone help me out here. I can't visualize the serp belt setup in my mind. Is the belt tension being REDUCED by moving the idler in that direction? Yes or no.

OK, on the Whipple there is an idler pulley that presses up against the back side of the belt. The idler pulley is on the passenger side of the main blower pulley and a little below it. As you slide it over toward the driver's side, it is increasing the belt wrap around the main pulley. Theoretically, it is NOT increasing tension. The OEM tensioner arm has a couple inches of travel and let's assume the tension is relatively linear through its range. Up at the subject idler pulley, when you start moving it over toward the driver's side you are simultaneously increasing belt wrap and causing the OEM tensioner arm to cock back to the beginning of its range.

Based on soroush's brief experiment, I would suspect the bearings in the idler pulley. In this scenario, it is the only pulley that "sees" increased tension as it is slit over and pushes against the back side of the belt. Further, I would expect that this is good news as it is likely neither expensive or hard to replace (compared to the alternatives).

 

[blownaway]

Bearing Noise

Listening to that noise and knowing that most of the cars dont have that many miles on them I would guess it is belt adjustment. Most tensioner and idler bearings are all sealed units and dont usually fail with limited mileage. Since there is no adjustment at O.E. tensioner (it is usually a tensioned spring in case) and if belt is right length and clean it would be my guess idler pulley not adjusted correctly. 5 and 6 ribbed belts are critical when it comes to tension. Whipple should have some specs on how much belt deflection when engine is off is acceptable.

 

[Shadowman]

OK, on the Whipple there is an idler pulley that presses up against the back side of the belt. The idler pulley is on the passenger side of the main blower pulley and a little below it. As you slide it over toward the driver's side, it is increasing the belt wrap around the main pulley. Theoretically, it is NOT increasing tension. The OEM tensioner arm has a couple inches of travel and let's assume the tension is relatively linear through its range. Up at the subject idler pulley, when you start moving it over toward the driver's side you are simultaneously increasing belt wrap and causing the OEM tensioner arm to cock back to the beginning of its range.

Based on soroush's brief experiment, I would suspect the bearings in the idler pulley. In this scenario, it is the only pulley that "sees" increased tension as it is slit over and pushes against the back side of the belt. Further, I would expect that this is good news as it is likely neither expensive or hard to replace (compared to the alternatives).

Just to a add bit of trivia

If the snout idler is adjusted as it should be 'before the OEM tensioner" is released then yes it will increase the tension because the as tension created by the OEM tensioner is not linear.

Now add to this; I worked with Soroush on this project and then the isolating of the noise. By relaxing the belt wrap tensioer is likely took some of the pre-load off the bearings within the SC'er case as such the bearing became quiet. This most likely is the exact situation that Dustin aka Whipple shared where the rear rotor bearing which are floating in a teflon wrap are making the noise.

All the best

Shadowman

 

[Empty Pockets]

Just to a add bit of trivia

If the snout idler is adjusted as it should be 'before the OEM tensioner" is released then yes it will increase the tension because the as tension created by the OEM tensioner is not linear.

Now add to this; I worked with Soroush on this project and then the isolating of the noise. By relaxing the belt wrap tensioer is likely took some of the pre-load off the bearings within the SC'er case as such the bearing became quiet. This most likely is the exact situation that Dustin aka Whipple shared where the rear rotor bearing which are floating in a teflon wrap are making the noise.

All the best

Shadowman

'Agree with your stmt 100%. That's exactly what I was getting at when I asked whether his adjustment increased or decreased tension. Shot bearings (or bushings in some cases) are the only things I'm aware of that make the kinda squeal heard on that audio. Remove the load on 'em and the noise stops or is very significantly reduced.

BUT! Why do you think the squeal ALSO WENT AWAY when he pushed on the clutch pedal, Bill? If the pblm is in the SC's bearings (which is what I believed too as I said), THAT is in no way connected to the clutch. One has to think throwout or pilot bearings if pushing the pedal stops or changes it.

I mean this is NUTS! Push on the clutch pedal and the noise goes away. Reduce tension on the drive belt and the noise goes away too! And one has nothing to do with the other. :willy:willy:willy

 

[Shadowman]

'Agree with your stmt 100%. That's exactly what I was getting at when I asked whether his adjustment increased or decreased tension. Shot bearings (or bushings in some cases) are the only things I'm aware of that make the kinda squeal heard on that audio. Remove the load on 'em and the noise stops or is very significantly reduced.

BUT! Why do you think the squeal ALSO WENT AWAY when he pushed on the clutch pedal, Bill? If the pblm is in the SC's bearings (which is what I believed too as I said), THAT is in no way connected to the clutch. One has to think throwout or pilot bearings if pushing the pedal stops or changes it.

I mean this is NUTS! Push on the clutch pedal and the noise goes away. Reduce tension on the drive belt and the noise goes away too! And one has nothing to do with the other. :willy:willy:willy

We have several different people sharing noise issues; Soroush with his new Whipple was the one that I just responded to however as for the fellow with the noise that seemed to go away when he pressed the clutch pedal I have been in contact with too. I think that the noise leaving when the clutch pedal was depressed is still up in the air because this may have actually been little more than a change in the load on the engine for that moment in time and the PCM was compensating thus the idle was migrating a bit up and down. He is going to do a few other test when he gets back in town and will share the results.

Now back to the Whipple;

The proper way to set the belt is to;

Completely relax the supercharger belt through the use of the OEM tensioner and then while it is relaxed slide the Whipple belt wrap tensioner as close to the snout as possible with pressure and snug the bolt. Once the belt wrap idler is secured then release the OEM tensioner.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[Empty Pockets]

We have several different people sharing noise issues; Soroush with his new Whipple was the one that I just responded to however as for the fellow with the noise that seemed to go away when he pressed the clutch pedal I have been in contact with too.

Aaaaaaaah! 'Not the same guy. I lost track/focus somewhere. Now this all makes a bit more sense...

Thanks, Bill.

 

[soroush]

i got the new whipple from dustin last week and will be installing sometime this week hope this will resolve the chirping problem, will keep you guys updated, I am also going to run the smaller 3.25 pulley and will tune the car on saturday, cant wait, to see what kind of numbers it will put down. Im addicted to hp.:biggrin

 

[Shadowman]

Thank you for the update

I for one truly appreciate a thread being taken to term

All the best with the fix and your quest for the "Holly (performance) Grail"

Shadowman

 

[Empty Pockets]

i got the new whipple from dustin last week and will be installing sometime this week hope this will resolve the chirping problem, will keep you guys updated, I am also going to run the smaller 3.25 pulley and will tune the car on saturday, cant wait, to see what kind of numbers it will put down. Im addicted to hp.:biggrin

Is Dustin going to take your old one apart, find the source of the pblm, and "report back" so to speak? I'm sure there are many here who'd like to know 'zactly what th' heck "went south".