Whipple +/- header question...

[DoctorV8]

Hello all,

I plan to step up to a Whipple soon. Right now the car is totally stock, and after getting used to it for a bit, I think I'm going to bypass the pulley mods and go right for the gusto. ;-)

Been using the search function a LOT over the past few weeks, but haven't been able to figure out a few things:

1) How many Whippled cars are on the forum?
2) How many of them are running headers?
3) Can you make 700+ rwhp on 93 octane with the factory manifolds?
4) Anyone gone from stock manifolds to headers on a modded car? How much power did you gain?
5) Any step by step pics of blower removal/installation out there?

Thanks in advance....

Sanjay

 

[dbk]

I'm pretty sure most of them are running the stock manifolds, and all of them are over 700rwhp. I would think with headers, you will probably gain 30-40rwhp on a car with a whipple and all the other usual goodies.

 

[Derry]

I can help with number 3, I have the Whipple stock manifolds making 713 RWHP with a conservative tune :biggrin of 91 octane. I was concerned with all this ethanol BS.

Derry

 

[BlackICE]

Email Whipple I am sure they can email you an installation manual. Not much too it really. It is like replacing a 62 lb! carburator and swapping belts. To make things easier you can remove the clamshell, using 3 people is safest. It is only about 50 lbs, but 3 make it least likey to damage anything. The only thing I found a pain is swapping the belt. You have to get the oil pump belts off, then the accessory belt and then finally you can exchange the supercharger belt. Having an extra hand when removing or installing the belts makes thing easier. I got 730 hp with the 19 psi pulley on 91 octane, stock exhaust manifolds, FRPP cat delete pipes and a Heffner cat back. With better gas I think 750+ is possible.

Good choice, but in TX you can get a TT for even more fun! In CA the Whipple is my only choice because it now has an CARB EO number.

 

[GFORCE]

I can tell you.

I went the pulley and tune at first fun for awhile.Then went whipple with
stock manifolds.You dont get that much hp for the money with headers.
I did the other GT the same way,Real fun two drive now.And Ida exhust
Fast.Got four vipers with lots mods,no contest.

 

[B O N Y]

Hello,
Hard to tell what the headers add, I am right now at 760rwhp. Every dyno is different.
We will have a dyno day in SoCal, so it will be interesting. The issue is safe reliable rwhp.
I am running 21lb pulley, 91 octaine tune, and stainless works headers and the other nornal tricks of the trade.
Cheers,
daniel

 

[BlackICE]

I am running 21lb pulley, 91 octaine tune, and stainless works headers and the other nornal tricks of the trade.
Cheers,
daniel

Humm, maybe I need to put my 21 psi pulley on?
:wink:biggrin:wink

 

[barondw]

From day one of the GT, folks that worked on it questioned if headers would do anything positive. After seeing 2 cars with the headers at Bob Ida's and seeing that they produced no more power I think they may have been right. This is comparing cars with Ida's equal upgrades and the dyno sheets showed no significant power or torque. Even Coletti's car had stock headers though it had gutted cats.

These same guys all said to look into the exhaust and cats as a source of more power because of reduction of heat soak. ANything to get rid of the heat will produce real road horsepower.

I have tried the gutted cats and have gone back to the stock cats as I felt it didn't really add anything except....making the car louder. Yeah I can see you guys salivating over louder already. Its also a throatier sound.

Just my 2 cents.

Dave:cheers

 

[paul b]

I think most of us finally agreed the biggest value of the headers and exhaust were heat and weight reduction. The added visual and sound effects are just a bonus. As for added horse power with the whipple, couldn't hurt.

 

[davisp]

I have the Whipple SC running 19psi of boost. I too went the pulley and tune route first and I can tell you now that there is no comparison. I plan to put her on the dyno soon and I expect to find that she is putting down over 700+ hp at the wheels. I am running the Ford Performance Racing muffler with stock cats. I love the combination and highly recommend it. If you are in the North East call Bob Ida and he can hook you up. If you are elsewhere, call the GT Guy's and have them plan a trip to your area to hook you up. PD

 

[Shadowman]

First of all the Whipple IMO is a no brainer

Now as for the OEM manifolds versus long tube headers such as the Stainless works system

The headers system offers a crisper engine bay appearance (subjectively speaking), adds a sound that is unique to headers, a reduction in radiant heat, and then there are the weight savings.

Now having shared this; these items alone were enough for me to take the plunge and install them and I have never looked back.

However add to this the performance question. Because of the variations between dyno pulls I feel it difficult to be conclusive with this answer however an educated guess based on experience would tell me that on the big end the headers would provide a bit more HP and yet the additional speculated HP gain alone would not be a draw ticket to me but the other known items are and were for me.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[GFORCE]

I agree

Having bob ida do both my whipple gts he said the same thing.But he did wrap
the cats and with the air ducts open and his exhaust my cars run cool.

 

[lthlvpr]

The one thing you need to think about is the amount of boost you will get with headers, no cats, or mufflers. With the reduction in back pressure you may only see 17.5 lbs boost with the 19# pulley, so you may want to use the 21# pulley to get 19#s boost. Otherwise you may make comparable power levels with the 19# pulley with the headers that other people are seeing without the headers because you are making less boost. Make sense?

 

[paul b]

The one thing you need to think about is the amount of boost you will get with headers, no cats, or mufflers. With the reduction in back pressure you may only see 17.5 lbs boost with the 19# pulley, so you may want to use the 21# pulley to get 19#s boost. Otherwise you may make comparable power levels with the 19# pulley with the headers that other people are seeing without the headers because you are making less boost. Make sense?

I think your air flow increase is the same, just the blower doesn't work as hard.

 

[DoctorV8]

Otherwise you may make comparable power levels with the 19# pulley with the headers that other people are seeing without the headers because you are making less boost. Make sense?

No, paul b is correct. You are confusing boost with airflow.

Boost is merely a measure of pressure in the intake manifold, and of course, improving exhaust scavenging will reduce boost.

However, HP is not a function of boost, but of overall airflow. By your logic, if I shoved a potato up my tailpipe, boost may swell up to 30 psi, but I guarantee HP won't increase. :biggrin

My original question was relating to whether headers offer enough of an improvement in exhaust flow over the stock manifolds to warrant the switch. Seems that the gains are relatively minimal on a stock car, but on a full out Whipple car, they might be worth it.

Thanks to everyone for your responses!

Regards,

Sanjay

 

[THamonGT]

Living in Houston, I would suggest you contact John Henessey who is very good at picking up HP in GT's and Vipers and is local. TGH

 

[Empty Pockets]

If you do the math on $$$$$ vs. H.P. gained, the H.P. gained by adding headers/deleting cats, etc., just isn't worth the effort IMHO. 'Bout the only time it WOULD be is if one were just out to drag every last doggone horse out of the engine that's humanly possible for some specific reason.

After all, nobuddy makes a rear tire outta super glue yet! And there isn't a one of us who couldn't fry the rear's with our STOCK engines as it is. :lol

Just my $.02 ...and worth every cent.

 

[DoctorV8]

I tend to agree with you, Empty. Not to mention I'm not a huge fan of removing the cats anyway.

Has anyone attempted to run highflow cats aft of their headers? Or does the length of the longtubes preclude that possibility?

 

[paul b]

I tend to agree with you, Empty. Not to mention I'm not a huge fan of removing the cats anyway.

Has anyone attempted to run highflow cats aft of their headers? Or does the length of the longtubes preclude that possibility?

Check out the Stainless Works system, it includes high flow Cats. I've talked about loving to tinker in the past, Whipple plus Stainless, expensive, Tinker value, priceless.

 

[BlackICE]

If you put headers a Whippled GT with nothing else changed, as stated before, you won't see a big difference. Maybe 20-30 HP. The savings is a direct results of the blower not having to push against the greater exhaust pressure. Just think about saving 20+ horsepower from the blowers's pulley and belt system! This 20+ HP loss goes into increasing boost pressure (without any air mass gains) and air tempertures (which may lead to detonation). Now if you retune the car to take advantage of the headers lower inlet temperatures, by increasing the timing and, or boost, then the power may go up more than the 20-30 HP. How much more, is only something you and your tuner can explore. Also, as stated before, because your blowers discharge temperatures are lower with headers, the ecu's timing backoff is less likely to come into play.

In the end as Shadowman stated, get headers primarily if you like the sound and looks, not for the power gains.