Track day-Goodyear Eagles vs. Hoosiers
- Thread starter ChipBeck
- Start date
AZGT
GT Owner
Bony - what size are yor running? Think you went to 20s.
I was just looking at the Bridgestones at Tire Rack. 345/35/ZR19. 1.18 inches wider, and only about .41 inches shorter. Still the 110Y, but only A for traction and wear number is worse. Like that size. Something like a 350/35/ZR19 would also be nice.
Would like a similar diameter, but I think a little more width would be good.
JBG
GT Owner
Well, I guess there can be only one way to settle this.......say, trackday in May :biggrin
JBG
GT Owner
JBG
GT Owner
Team Jeff
GT Owner
- Sep 8, 2007
- 561
Just in case you want the mount anyway....
http://www.filmtools.com/gripsuccupca.html
Nice folks there BTW.
http://www.filmtools.com/gripsuccupca.html
Nice folks there BTW.
tires for the FGT
Well, my name has been mentioned several times on this post so here are my opinions. I've used sticky DOT rubber for years on my cars. Heavy rain & road hazards are bad news for the sticky DOTs. I've used them in light rain with no problem but dry conditons are their forte.
Black Ice - I am very familiar with the CA Motor Vehicle Code. The 4/32 rule is for trucks over 10,000 GVW with 3 or more axles, truck tractors, trailers, etc on the steering axle (MVC # 34500). Passenger cars are 1/32". This is wild as the Federal standard doesn't state the wear minimum specifically. They require a wear bar indicator moled at 1/16" (2/32). This means the CA standard is less than the Federal! My CHP buddies say it's not worth changing the MVC. Hoosier follows the Fed standard "...tires are legally worn out when they have worn down to 2/32" of remaining tread depth."
DOT certification means they are STREET LEGAL. Tread is not a requirement for the Feds or any state. A minimum of 2 parallel gooves are required by the Feds to observe the height of the wear bar indicators molded at 2/32". Hoosiers are molded at 4.5/32". I get 2500 miles per set including open tracks. Yes, they get less sticky at the end but at the end of their life they are far stickier than the OEM Goodyears. Stickiness is a factor of the number of heat cycles & not road miles. It is really hard (almost impossible) to get them to heat cycle on the road.
I am not advocating the use of R6 Hoosiers on the road. However, I use them on the road & track with no problem. I drove to Rally II (total of 1400 miles) on them with no problem. Many manufacturers of sticky DOT tires do not have Hoosiers' liablity statement of not recommended for road use.
What's this "chunking" of tires? I haven't done that on any tire. Improper inflation, etc?
Chip - You are absolutely 100% for-sure correct when you spoke of the difference between the OEM tires & the R6 Hoosiers. Night & day. It is a transformed car. Much of the testing of the GT was done on the Hoosiers. Hoosier made the R315/40R19 R6 specifically for the Ford GT. If there is one single mod you can do to your car for the track it would be sticky rubber (hey, they're not so bad for railing that favorite off-ramp or punching it on the straight) . It was worth 8 seconds/lap at Laguna in my ol Fox T-Bird.
Bony - there are few rear tire/wheel combos that will come close to the OD of the OEM tire/wheel of 29". The Hoosier is perfect. Most combos (even with 20" wheels) are too small. The chassis & suspension was set up for 29" rear. If you only cruise it's not a problem but pushing it I would be careful. Ford wanted a tall profile rear tire (retro look?) so we are limited. My 18" CC Wheel rear with the 28.0 x 12.5 - 18 G-19 Goodyear slick is at 28" OD. Michelins & Pirellis put you around 25-27".
This is isn't the first time this has come up. I hope I have helped.
Ed
Well, my name has been mentioned several times on this post so here are my opinions. I've used sticky DOT rubber for years on my cars. Heavy rain & road hazards are bad news for the sticky DOTs. I've used them in light rain with no problem but dry conditons are their forte.
Black Ice - I am very familiar with the CA Motor Vehicle Code. The 4/32 rule is for trucks over 10,000 GVW with 3 or more axles, truck tractors, trailers, etc on the steering axle (MVC # 34500). Passenger cars are 1/32". This is wild as the Federal standard doesn't state the wear minimum specifically. They require a wear bar indicator moled at 1/16" (2/32). This means the CA standard is less than the Federal! My CHP buddies say it's not worth changing the MVC. Hoosier follows the Fed standard "...tires are legally worn out when they have worn down to 2/32" of remaining tread depth."
DOT certification means they are STREET LEGAL. Tread is not a requirement for the Feds or any state. A minimum of 2 parallel gooves are required by the Feds to observe the height of the wear bar indicators molded at 2/32". Hoosiers are molded at 4.5/32". I get 2500 miles per set including open tracks. Yes, they get less sticky at the end but at the end of their life they are far stickier than the OEM Goodyears. Stickiness is a factor of the number of heat cycles & not road miles. It is really hard (almost impossible) to get them to heat cycle on the road.
I am not advocating the use of R6 Hoosiers on the road. However, I use them on the road & track with no problem. I drove to Rally II (total of 1400 miles) on them with no problem. Many manufacturers of sticky DOT tires do not have Hoosiers' liablity statement of not recommended for road use.
What's this "chunking" of tires? I haven't done that on any tire. Improper inflation, etc?
Chip - You are absolutely 100% for-sure correct when you spoke of the difference between the OEM tires & the R6 Hoosiers. Night & day. It is a transformed car. Much of the testing of the GT was done on the Hoosiers. Hoosier made the R315/40R19 R6 specifically for the Ford GT. If there is one single mod you can do to your car for the track it would be sticky rubber (hey, they're not so bad for railing that favorite off-ramp or punching it on the straight) . It was worth 8 seconds/lap at Laguna in my ol Fox T-Bird.
Bony - there are few rear tire/wheel combos that will come close to the OD of the OEM tire/wheel of 29". The Hoosier is perfect. Most combos (even with 20" wheels) are too small. The chassis & suspension was set up for 29" rear. If you only cruise it's not a problem but pushing it I would be careful. Ford wanted a tall profile rear tire (retro look?) so we are limited. My 18" CC Wheel rear with the 28.0 x 12.5 - 18 G-19 Goodyear slick is at 28" OD. Michelins & Pirellis put you around 25-27".
This is isn't the first time this has come up. I hope I have helped.
Ed
Last edited:
cobrar1339
GT Owner
Nice recap Ed. :thumbsup....I think you summed it up pretty darn good.
The chucking issue I think was supposed to be related to the Goodyears or even other street tires. We see this at track days a lot on many cars with OEM rubber. It happens less the more worn the tires are. So if the street tires are not too old ( years/months) and but still worn down these are about track ready.
It is caused by the depth thread rolling over and pulling so hard on the tire, chunks of the tire separate from the tire. I can be a anywhere from 1/4" - 1/2" rock sized chunks missing from the tire. Mostly on the outside or inside edges close to the sidewall. There is a lot of G force going on down there.
The chucking issue I think was supposed to be related to the Goodyears or even other street tires. We see this at track days a lot on many cars with OEM rubber. It happens less the more worn the tires are. So if the street tires are not too old ( years/months) and but still worn down these are about track ready.
It is caused by the depth thread rolling over and pulling so hard on the tire, chunks of the tire separate from the tire. I can be a anywhere from 1/4" - 1/2" rock sized chunks missing from the tire. Mostly on the outside or inside edges close to the sidewall. There is a lot of G force going on down there.
HeritageBruce
GT Owner
I know many autocrossers (me included) who drive to the events on DOT slicks and as long as it is not raining heavy out and no chance of hitting puddles of waters, the DOT slicks perform fine. I've run them in events in moderate rain and they still stick fine. So I'd say in the dryer states like California, Nevada, and Arizona in the summer time, I wouldn't hestitate to use the R6's on the street. But, now here's a big but, below is a picture of my GT3's front wheel opening and this is what happens when you drive around with DOT slicks on the street. These tires would pick up all kinds of debris and then throw them at the back of the wheel opening. So before you put those slicks on, be sure to put a good think clear bra on the affected areas.
mousecatcher
GT Owner
mark starr
New member
- Mar 25, 2008
- 3
Help!!!
Hey Guys ( and Gals ),
I am new to this forum and appreciate all the info and leg work all of you have performed. If ever any of you need any advice on a Lotus, I am the guy to go to. I own Hunting Ridge Motorsports/Lotus of Greenwich and do tons of track events............Enough of that.............the reason I am here and hoping to get some good advice is...............A VERY good client of mine has a Ford GT and he's an intermediate to advanced driver who does push the car. I have a second set of wheels that we are going to use for tarck events and wanted to know what tire is best for the car for that use.........I see that many of you use the Hoosier R6. We use that tire on the Lotus cars as well as Yokohama slicks and find the Hoosier to be a great all round tire on the Lotus but I have NO experience with the GT. HELP!!!!!...........Also, I understand that the Hoosier is only available in a 255/40/18 for the front? Is that allright to use? The 315/40/19 for the rear is available.........Are those sizes good to go and finally..........What tire pressures should we be running. I'll need cold and target temps hot...............Thanks again guys......
Hey Guys ( and Gals ),
I am new to this forum and appreciate all the info and leg work all of you have performed. If ever any of you need any advice on a Lotus, I am the guy to go to. I own Hunting Ridge Motorsports/Lotus of Greenwich and do tons of track events............Enough of that.............the reason I am here and hoping to get some good advice is...............A VERY good client of mine has a Ford GT and he's an intermediate to advanced driver who does push the car. I have a second set of wheels that we are going to use for tarck events and wanted to know what tire is best for the car for that use.........I see that many of you use the Hoosier R6. We use that tire on the Lotus cars as well as Yokohama slicks and find the Hoosier to be a great all round tire on the Lotus but I have NO experience with the GT. HELP!!!!!...........Also, I understand that the Hoosier is only available in a 255/40/18 for the front? Is that allright to use? The 315/40/19 for the rear is available.........Are those sizes good to go and finally..........What tire pressures should we be running. I'll need cold and target temps hot...............Thanks again guys......
Team Jeff
GT Owner
- Sep 8, 2007
- 561
Mark,
Depending on the wheels your client is using there may only be one choice, that is to use the Hoosier R6. We use a set of 18" CCW's with Goodyear race slicks and couldn't be happier with the result. Having said that I have not driven the R6 so cannot give a comparison...but the G tires are softer & much less expensive. :biggrin (can't remember the compound)
Temps... I think a good hot temp to start with is 40psi. I think there is some personal preference involved here but that should get you close.
Welcome to the forum & don't forget to post photos of that FGT on track!
Depending on the wheels your client is using there may only be one choice, that is to use the Hoosier R6. We use a set of 18" CCW's with Goodyear race slicks and couldn't be happier with the result. Having said that I have not driven the R6 so cannot give a comparison...but the G tires are softer & much less expensive. :biggrin (can't remember the compound)
Temps... I think a good hot temp to start with is 40psi. I think there is some personal preference involved here but that should get you close.
Welcome to the forum & don't forget to post photos of that FGT on track!
mark starr
New member
- Mar 25, 2008
- 3
Thanks Team Jeff. Appreciate the info.........Is that 40PSI HOT front and rear? He has the BBS wheels with stock tires for street use and a set of factory spoke style wheels ( powder coated black which looks cool ) for the slicks. So it's a factory wheel...........Pictures to follow.......You should see his other cars!!!! OMG!!!!!!
HeritageBruce
GT Owner
Welcome Mark! I also push my car a little bit and after looking long and hard for over a year, I think the R6's are the way to go. 255/315 R6's would be PERFECT for the GT. As you probably know, the R6's run wider than others but they still fit perfectly as others on this board have put even 275's in the front and 345 in the back. And the R6's in the front will help dial out some understeer. BTW, thanks to Ed Light at your dealership, he fixed me up w/ a thicker steering wheel in blue and black leather for my Elise and I couldn't be happier with the workmanship.
Beach-GT
GT Owner
I have been puzzeling over the Hoosier sizes as well. I saw pictures of the white GT with P245/40/18 on the front with the P315 rears and that seems like it is too small of diameter for the front with the P315. The P225/40/18 looks like a better match for the 315. I didn't know you could mount up to P345 on our wheels. I was thinking of widening a set by 1 inch but the torsion bar link is too close without using a spacer...and I don't really like that idea. I'd really prefer a 13 inch wide wheel but that's major trouble to fit. If 325s or 245s are used, then it looks like 245/35 fronts would preserve the ratio better for ABS but they lower the car by almost 1 inch and Jacking is a problem as it is. Any discussion?
BlackICE
GT Owner
If 13 inch rims can be fitted to the rear, how would you split the additional 1.5" width? Evenly, or more rim towards to inside? Is anyone running 13s in a 19" wheel?