Track day-Goodyear Eagles vs. Hoosiers

[B O N Y]

Thanks Ice,... great reply. Please Chip, imagine yourself giving the deposition and saying "I really didn't know" and someone hands you a screen shot of this forum and continues the line of questioning... 36,000fpm dive into Mother Earth...

 

[dbk]

Regardless of what a screen shot says, the tires are DOT legal. If you don't know that you shouldn't run slicks in the rain, should you really have a Ford GT? Is this new information?

Why don't we discuss the merits of the tires rather than hypothetical legal situations? :wink

 

[roketman]

Hoosiers Are Like Ford Gt's ....they Require Respect And Common Sense .

 

[Blue Moose]

"Would like to maybe even go a little wider in the rear (boy, here come the jokes" :biggrin).

Joke #1:lol:lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl1tKgIzNKg

 

[mousecatcher]

Hoosier is VERY explicit, these tires are NOT SAFE for highway (meaning public road, so including neighborhood streets) use.

If this is the case, why on earth would Hoosier go through the time and trouble to have these tires DOT certified for road use?

You yourself and BlackICE both already answered this -- in order to use a soft compound tire in classes/series which require a DOT tire.

I just wanted to comment on the tone of your question, which makes it sound like you are questioning my statement as to whether or not Hoosier declares the tire safe or not. There is no question about that -- go to their website. Go to tirerack and look at the Hoosier R6 info. I haven't been to other sites but I'd bet they would also carry the disclaimer.

Whether they are safe or not, I don't know either way. But Hoosier is adamant that they are not. It does make one wonder, what are the requirements for a DOT label. Because if they're not safe, how could they get the certification? Well maybe I've just found the answer:

https://www.hoosiertire.com/warrrace.htm

NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE: All Hoosier Racing Tires including DOT labeled Hoosier Racing Tires are designed for racing purposes only on specified racing surfaces and are not to be operated on public roadways. DOT labeled Hoosier Racing Tires meet Department Of Transportation requirements for marking and performance only and are NOT INTENDED FOR HIGHWAY USE. It is unsafe to operate any Hoosier Racing Tire including DOT tires on public roads. The prohibited use of Hoosier Racing Tires on public roadways may result in loss of traction, unexpected loss of vehicle control, or sudden loss of tire pressure, resulting in a vehicle crash and possible injury or death.

 

[mousecatcher]

BTW, this argument comes up on every forum.

 

[JBG]

Now look at what these tires started!

My Hoosiers will never see the public roads. The main reasons being the tendency to throw debri (pebbles, rocks, etc) and the possibility of loss of traction with surface water. That's why I have decided on 2 seperate wheel sets, one for street and one for track. I STILL like the Hoosiers :biggrin

 

[mousecatcher]

Pirelli or Michlien PS2's

i just got a set of PS2's for my vette. Hope to try them out soon.

 

[Fyr-FtrGT]

Why don't we discuss the merits of the tires rather than hypothetical legal situations? :wink[/QUOTE]

This is the essence of the question. I purchased my GT to experience controlled horsepower and to get the most pleasure out of high G driving. How many less totals would there be if those cars were on a stickier tire? Hoosier tires allow me to drive my GT in a much safer condition. In stock form my car was breaking loose in the rear end too easily. After the pulley and tune it got ridiculous. The Hoosier tires settled the car down so that it could be driven hard without the immediate loss of control that was experienced with the stock tires. You gentlemen that have upgraded to the Whipple supercharger or Twin Turbos must be better at controlling your car than I am. Right now I could not use any more horsepower for street driving. My limited track time tells me that before I add any more horsepower, suspension and tire pressures have to be dealt with first.

 

[Team Jeff]

I had a chance to run my shaved Toyo RA-1's (similar compound to the Hoosier R6) in the rain on a race track a few months ago. To say the least I was surprised at the wet traction of this tire. I tested the Toyo's and a set of Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 back to back, the unofficial seat of the pants result was much better traction from the Toyo's. Standing water is very much a different story- like summer tires on snow. IMO, wear issues aside I would not hesitate to drive the Hoosiers on public roads, as I did with the shaved Toyo's.

Goodyear slicks V.S. Hoosier slicks? We will have to gather some g-force data from the next event! The word on the street is the G-slicks have more traction. What do you say JBG?

 

[Team Jeff]

I should clarify, the tire test was not performed using an FGT.

 

[AlohaGT]

I agree with DBK, more legal hypos likely benefit no one.

So, Chip, how was the SPF GT40?

Kelvin

 

[ChipBeck]

I must be tone deaf.

You yourself and BlackICE both already answered this -- in order to use a soft compound tire in classes/series which require a DOT tire.

I just wanted to comment on the tone of your question, which makes it sound like you are questioning my statement as to whether or not Hoosier declares the tire safe or not. There is no question about that -- go to their website. Go to tirerack and look at the Hoosier R6 info.

Mousecatcher and Bony,

This kind of mirrors my home life. I think everything is going along swimmingly and at the same time Veronica is upset with me and thinks I'm being a jerk. Hey, ignorance is bliss and I'm a very happy guy! I have asked a lot of questions and I've received a lot of excellent information. Those things that made no sense to me I queried in a different manner and received answers that did make sense to me. I did not answer my own question as to why a DOT rating would be placed on a tire not intended for road use, I was guessing and another member confirmed that my sheer speculation was correct. Mousecatcher appears to have considerable experience and knowledge as regards these tires, and as I've stated previously I have one hour of experience with them, have read nothing about them, and have not looked at any tire websites. The only experience I have as regards this thread is twofold, I've been sued and hauled into court way too many times and I have a pretty good idea of the circumstances necessary for an auto insurance company to deny a claim. Bony is correct as regards opening oneself up to personal liability if a third party is injured as a result of using these tires and it could be shown that the owner knew they should not be used on the street. Then again, if you're a high net worth individual you open yourself up to liability in excess of your insurance limits every time you take anybody for a ride in any car that you own. But that's not what I was talking about. I was commenting on whether or not an insurance company could avoid paying the claim and based upon my experience, they would pay every time. Keep in mind gentleman, they will also pay if you are blind drunk, racing through a school zone at 100 mph, and drive off a bridge with worn-out brakes. They probably will not renew your policy and your behavior will expose you to personal liability, but your insurance will pay (within the stated limits of liability).

My tone toward all members of this forum is positive and appreciative at all times, at least that's what I intend. Otherwise Bony will never buy me another Maker's Mark Manhattan. And I certainly don't want anyone to think that I question their veracity when I am the one without any experience as regards the matter being discussed. My "why on earth comment" was not meant to question your answer Mousecatcher, it was expressing my incredulity that a tire maker would be so legally careless in this age of the lawsuit by selling DOT street legal tires if they're unsafe for road use, I don't care what any race series requires or how many disclaimers they have on their website. Again, it's lawsuit suicide. Seems like they could sell enough of them with far less liability by leaving off the DOT rating. The next time I see you Mousecatcher we will insure positive tone with a delicious cool refreshing beverage. :cheers

Now, all this said and armed with my new education, I have a another problem. The cool looking Goodyear billboard tires on my 427 Kirkham Cobra are clearly stamped on the side walls, "Not legal for street use". :frown Like I stated earlier, "ignorance is bliss".

Chip

 

[BlackICE]

Chip if you are driving those Goodyear racing slicks on the public roads, you shouldn't have any reservations about using the Hoosiers.

 

[ChipBeck]

Illegal replica goodyears.

Chip if you are driving those Goodyear racing slicks on the public roads, you shouldn't have any reservations about using the Hoosiers.

Ice,

The billboard Goodyears on my Cobra have tons of tread on them. I was told they are copies of 1960s era racing rain tires. They came on the car as it was delivered from Kirkham and they are a very popular Kirkham option. I don't think the tires on my car were actually made by Goodyear. I believe another tire company made them to look like vintage Goodyears. What they don't have very much of is traction. I love the way they look but I was considering trying to find something else that had more grip. A Cobra is always interesting to drive. Build a car with a 90 inch wheelbase, load in 600 plus horsepower, but give it less than 300 hp worth of traction. :eek After watching videos of all of the 427 SCs spinning out and going off-road at the annual Club Cobra Rally, it makes me hesitant to track mine. :ack

Chip

 

[Team Jeff]

Chip- Have you considered some vintage Avon's? I have done almost zero research on the subject but it was presented to me as a track tire option for the SPF GT-40, which as you now know it needs in a serious way!

 

[mousecatcher]

Mousecatcher and Bony,

This kind of mirrors my home life. I think everything is going along swimmingly and at the same time Veronica is upset with me and thinks I'm being a jerk.

um, let me clarify, i am not upset, i don't think you are a jerk, this is not an argument, it's just a discussion. i'm just throwing out the info i think might be useful ... take it or leave it! hell it might be wrong and like i said, i have no idea whether or not hoosiers are safe on public roads. i only know what hoosier says. i also personally know folks who DO drive them on the street and i've never heard of a problem.

I did not answer my own question as to why a DOT rating would be placed on a tire not intended for road use, I was guessing and another member confirmed that my sheer speculation was correct.

i realize that ... i was just adding another confirmation.

But that's not what I was talking about. I was commenting on whether or not an insurance company could avoid paying the claim and based upon my experience, they would pay every time. Keep in mind gentleman, they will also pay if you are blind drunk, racing through a school zone at 100 mph, and drive off a bridge with worn-out brakes. They probably will not renew your policy and your behavior will expose you to personal liability, but your insurance will pay (within the stated limits of liability).

thanks for that, that is definitely good information.

The next time I see you Mousecatcher we will insure positive tone with a delicious cool refreshing beverage. :cheers

:cheers

sorry if my post made you feel you had to defend yourself. i wasn't trying to be antagonistic at all.

 

[B O N Y]

Mouse.. thanks for your comments.
My remark regarding 'tone' was directed at you.

 

[B O N Y]

Chip,
The tires on your Cobra come from Goodyear. They are NOT DOT approved.
Lots of folks run them, after they warm up and get over the flat spotting they stick very well. The DOT issue remains.
Lets move on.
Thanks.
Daniel

 

[AZGT]

Lets move on.
l

Ok - Bony - you still running the PS2s or did you change?