Think my Whipple broke:( I rolled on the gas and it made an aweful grinding noise


dpdive

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 23, 2009
93
Buffalo, NY
My 4.0 Whipple started making noise on the plantation tour at this years rally. When I got back I loaded it in the trailer and didn't even start it again. I had Rich & Denis take it off and send it to Whipple. The bearings were starting to go bad but not enough that the rotors touched which is the kiss of death. Whipple is rebuilding it. I asked the question about why bearings are going bad but probably will never actually find out.
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
I know nothing about this company, but some info on causes of failures of blowers.

http://www.thehighspeedlab.com/catalogkbdiagnostic.html
 

Sinovac

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 18, 2006
5,862
Largo, Florida
Thanks for the link.
 

FBA

GT Owner
Dec 5, 2010
1,672
31.022340° N / 44.846191° W
Had I known about these issues prior to installing my 4.0, I would never have done it and would have just gone down an alternate route. Seems to me that Whipple has some serious QC and engineering issues. This should never happen - and the trickle down effect can be very costly. That's just wrong at every level.
 

analogdesigner

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Nov 15, 2005
950
San Clemente, CA USA
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement...

I know nothing about this company, but some info on causes of failures of blowers.

http://www.thehighspeedlab.com/catalogkbdiagnostic.html

There is something to be said about products that are engineered and produced by a company that has many accumulated years (100’s to 10,000’s man hours) of experience. Failure analysis is another field of work that is every bit of demanding.
I quickly read the article by thehighspeedlab and the first thing that caught my eye was their comment about “Leaking Rotor Seal”. One part of their fix is to “polish the rotor seal bushing”. Optimum rotary seal life is obtained with a specific surface finish on the shaft (or bushing). Premature seal failures usually occur with a shaft surface that is too rough OR too smooth. Too smooth of a shaft finish will destroy the seal by preventing a sufficient oil film from forming between the seal lip and shaft surface. Too rough of a surface finish will allow for plenty of oil; however the extra roughness will prematurely wear the lip of the seal. These failures may appear the same; however they occur due to two different mechanisms. Also, the method in which the shaft surface finish was created is equally important. Generally speaking, the machined finish should be “square” to the surface. The machined surface profile should NOT slowly go inward or outward (this is called “lead”). Even a few tenths of a degree pitch (or angle) can cause premature seal failure. Shaft surface finish for these applications are generally between 10 to 20 Ra (roughness average, sometimes “RMS” is still used). These numbers represent microinches or millionths of an inch.

I don’t even want to discuss installing ball bearings… Jay
 

Dolph

GT Owner
Dec 25, 2012
123
Ruston, LA
I know more have failed than the 2 mentioned here all were Gen 2 to my knowledge, but that probably isn't statistically significant since Gen 2 installation far outnumber Gen 1 and Gen 3 4.0L blowers.

My car has the Gen 1 Whipple. Are you saying the Gen 1s aren't having nearly the problems as the Gen 2s, percentage wise?
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
My car has the Gen 1 Whipple. Are you saying the Gen 1s aren't having nearly the problems as the Gen 2s, percentage wise?

Not enough data to make that claim, but to my knowledge no gen 1 have failed yet.
 

shelbyelite

PERMANENTLY BANNED
May 10, 2007
1
I have not had any customers notify me of any of their whipples failing yet, so I wouldn't say this is a wide spread problem. No need to over react when there are only 2 or 3 cases that we have heard of so far. Yes, it is scary to think that something could fail and go into your engine and cause problems, but this is the risk you take modifying a car from its original form. I have heard of failures in all sorts of mods. Chip Beck blew a turbo not to long ago. Same thing could happen there and broken parts could get sucked into the engine. I have seen screws come out of stock throttle body's and get sucked in through the intake. No need to over react, just keep your car and the mods on your car serviced regularly and also make sure you are using an "experienced" installer to do the mods on your GT.
 

Black GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jan 2, 2006
771
Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead guys but my 3.4L gen 2 whipple broke yesterday just like Kenric AKA Black GT's did in this here thread. it sounds to me like the rotors are colliding and are hitting the case as well. so i am gonna have to either get a new 3.4L or upgrade to a 4.0L. my question to Kenric would be did this damage your intercooler or your motor as well? when the turbo grenaded a vane on my Turbocharged Kawasaki drag bike i had to the replace the rings on my pistons and my valves. if that is the case with my GT then it will be going to Accufab to get rebuilt with some upgrades like Chip Becks motor....




Just saw your post. I just pulled the intercooler off and cleaned it very thoroughly. The engine is perfect. I actually make more power with new Whipple with exact same set up. Put new belt on, and that's it. She went from 743 to 766.6 rwhp. Just get a new 3.4 and make sure and clean intercooler you should be fine.
 

Fast Freddy

GPS'D 225 MPH
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 5, 2005
2,727
Avondale, Arizona
Just saw your post. I just pulled the intercooler off and cleaned it very thoroughly. The engine is perfect. I actually make more power with new Whipple with exact same set up. Put new belt on, and that's it. She went from 743 to 766.6 rwhp. Just get a new 3.4 and make sure and clean intercooler you should be fine.

gonna try and get my Gen two 3.4L rebuilt. if not hopefully i can core it out for a new 3.4L

the 4.0L would be the last resort for me as it is even heavier than the 3.4L and requires a double key wayed crank.

i got a brand new set of Borla Headers and a slightly used Borla muffler that i am sending to Jet-Hot next week to get their Extreme 1300 Polish coating. gonna ditch my X-pipe and get a new tune from Torrie for 3 different octane levels with 104 being the highest. shootin for 800 rwhp on 104 octane with my accufab throttle body :cool

my 751 rwhp was done on a 100 octane tune with 21 psi of boost.

i would swap my stock cams for race cams if i could see some proof that they would give me at least 20 rwhp.

when racing i shift at 7,000 rpm's with my current setup so HIGH duration cams are a viable option for me as i could shift at an even Higher rpm in order to maximize peak hp....
 
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BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Freddy you might need a GTguys intake too to reach 800.

Good luck with the Whipple, I hope it can be rebuilt, case damage probably would precude it.
 
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2112

Blue/white 06'
Mark II Lifetime
Freddy, How many hours/miles did your unit have on it?

Do I remember it was a lightly preowned unit when you got it?

I am wondering if there might be a pre determined interval that full bearing service may be of benefit.

Just thinking of trying to squeeze out maximum HP of my big pushrod motors. Valve springs are safe for 60-70 hours. 70-110 are risky and 110+ plus is asking for a dropped valve.

Even pushrods have duty cycles. In low HP applications, these parts can last many multiples of the time frames I mentioned.
 

Mullet

FORD GT OWNER
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 21, 2008
2,468
Houston Texas
I had a bearing go out on my stock blower. caught it very quickly so no extra damage.
 

Fast Freddy

GPS'D 225 MPH
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 5, 2005
2,727
Avondale, Arizona
Freddy, How many hours/miles did your unit have on it?

Do I remember it was a lightly preowned unit when you got it?

I am wondering if there might be a pre determined interval that full bearing service may be of benefit.

Just thinking of trying to squeeze out maximum HP of my big pushrod motors. Valve springs are safe for 60-70 hours. 70-110 are risky and 110+ plus is asking for a dropped valve.

Even pushrods have duty cycles. In low HP applications, these parts can last many multiples of the time frames I mentioned.

Aloha GT put 3,000 miles on it and i put 3,000 miles on it. so that is 6,000 miles. all the ones that i have seen fail seem to do so at around the 6,000 mile mark even on cobra's. the Whipple was originally designed for High performance boat motors which don't see that kind of mileage or the HIGH boost or HIGH rpm's that we run on cars as offshore powerboats and muscle boats have BIG blocks. i think this is what the problem is. i have a mere 2.3L Whipple on my 503 CI BIG Block Chevy Muscle boat motor and have never had a problem as it only takes 7 lbs of boost to make a engine dyno verifed 690 HP and 790 TQ at the crank. this is accomplished at a mere 5600 rpm's too....
 
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Fast Freddy

GPS'D 225 MPH
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 5, 2005
2,727
Avondale, Arizona
Freddy you might need a GTguys intake too to reach 800.

Good luck with the Whipple, I hope it can be rebuilt, case damage probably would precude it.

yep if there is case damage it means it is toast. so hopefully i can get a 3.4L again or this is gonna get real expensive. i know the GT guys intake makes alot of power but i don't like for the way it looks as it looks ghetto to me. with cams i should be able to get to 800 rwhp. Shell also makes a new 110 octane unleaded race gas, so a tune for that would do it for sure with the rest of the mods i mentioned earlier in this thread.....
 

Black GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jan 2, 2006
771
yep if there is case damage it means it is toast. so hopefully i can get a 3.4L again or this is gonna get real expensive. i know the GT guys intake makes alot of power but i don't like for the way it looks as it looks ghetto to me. with cams i should be able to get to 800 rwhp. Shell also makes a new 110 octane unleaded race gas, so a tune for that would do it for sure with the rest of the mods i mentioned earlier in this thread.....


Keep us updated. I think you will be good to go as mine is. Dyno after you get new 3.4 on, I bet you will be up on power. I think the newer Whipples have tighter clearances.
 

nota4re

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 15, 2006
4,281
i know the GT guys intake makes alot of power

Really?

We have a pretty educated crowd here on this forum - one of the things that differentiates this forum from all others, IMO.

There are at least a couple of mods out there with a lot of subjective HP improvement claims but where there is a complete lack of objective data to back up the claims. Does it mean that these mods are NOT producing the claimed HP benefits? Absolutely not. It only means that; 1) I've just missed any posting of objective or conclusive measurement or; 2) those objectives tests have just not yet been performed.

The mods that are somewhat routinely associated with HP gains are modified intakes and big cams. I've witnessed big cams causing hard-starting issues and I've also witnessed big cams producing a "to die for" lopey, menacing idle. However, I've never seen any objective measurement of HP before/after test results where there is an definitive advantage shown for the cams.

As for the air intake mods, I know that we have dyno'd 7-10 different twin-turbo cars ourselves - each of them at approximately 1,000 RWHP. ALL of these cars have used the stock airbox - with roughly half using K&N filters and half using stock filter elements. We've done a LOT of changes and diagnosed many anomolies and never once have we found a flow issue with the OEM intake. Granted, these were turbo cars. To get the equivalent 1,000 RWHP on a SC car, the motor is going to have to generate about 1200 HP (oversimplifying that 1000HP is going to the rear wheels and 200HP to drive the pulley). The jist is that a SC car may need to ingest more air and could hit air restriction limitations earlier. However, for an 800RWHP SC car, the air intake requirements are not going to be greater than a 1000RWHP turbo car - so once again I don't "get it" when it comes to a modified intake.

Further, testing of an intake on a dyno and comparing it to the OEM intake is virtually impossible. As an example, ALL the dyno tests that we have done as well as all the ones we have seen, are done with the clamshell open. The reality is that on the road with the clamshell closed down and sealed around the OEM airbox intakes - the car is going to enjoy a very nice dosage of ambient air and at a good velocity as the forward motion of the car is pushing the air into the OEM airbox. Compared to this, aftermarket air intakes can conceptually be OK on the dyno (as large fans are typically blowing against a propped-up clamshell) but on the road an aftermarket intake can position the intake filters is an absolute measureable "dead zone" for air. So, in the case of several of the aftermarket air intakes not only has there been no objective performance data to reflect their presumed benefit, there is obvious physical hinderances which are not present with the OEM air path.
 

Fast Freddy

GPS'D 225 MPH
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 5, 2005
2,727
Avondale, Arizona
No worries Kendall. i am gonna be sticking with my stock airbox regardless if the aftermarket ones make more power or not. i have yet to see an aftermarket intake that i think looks cooler than the oem anyway....
 

nota4re

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 15, 2006
4,281
No worries Kendall. i am gonna be sticking with my stock airbox regardless

And it is not a problem for me either way. I was not trying to dissuade you or any other owners from different air intakes or bigger cams. I was merely just trying to point out that over time we just begin to accept some things as have been proven/demonstrated - whereas I think the reality is that we are often lacking any objective data to support our beliefs/claims. End of hi-jack.... back to the regularly scheduled programing.
 

Dolph

GT Owner
Dec 25, 2012
123
Ruston, LA
I was merely just trying to point out that over time we just begin to accept some things as have been proven/demonstrated - whereas I think the reality is that we are often lacking any objective data to support our beliefs/claims.

+1

And this occurs in other industries as well.