The new Ford GT: is it worth it?

[B. West]

DBK, you are being very polite and I can appreciate that. This car is not for the average consumer, even the above average consumer. As much as we all love are current model GT's, this is a totally different car in every aspect. This car is targeting a select few. I wish we all would have an opportunity to own one of these vehicles but the reality is it's just not going to happen. And..... given the technology, demand, exclusivity most importantly, and future appreciation, the majority of us will never come close to owning this. Furthermore, dealers are still sore about missing out on the '05/06 (missing out meaning they sold their select few units of allocation during the downturn of 06/07/08 or sooner). Dealers have been enjoying a SAAR of close to 16 million and experiencing nice profits. The lucky dealers that do get one will be very unlikely to sell it simply due to knowing they got priced out on the '05/06. I drove my GT today for the first time since before the holidays and I have to tell you.....this is still one bad%ss car regardless of what comes out in the future. JMHO

There will certainly be a number of garage queens, but that's not a surprise. Look at the number of 05/06 GTs available with 2-8k miles and that car is now 10 years old! Ferrari pumped out 360/430/458s non-stop and they too can be had with under 10,000 miles all day. There will definitely be a number of people that stick the new car in a collection, and there will definitely be a number of guys that beat them mercilessly.

Ultimately it comes down to raison d'être. Raj said the new car grew out of a discussion about how to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the 1-2-3 finish at Le Mans and a desire to put Ford back on the leading edge of technology. That in mind, how do you approach the production of the car? What are your goals? How concerned are you with availability on the open market? Do you sacrifice performance or technology in the pursuit of raw sales? The 05/06 was a pure road car built as a company gift to itself for it's birthday. Expectations were different.

We shall see what happens.

 

[soroush]

does that mean if they make 1200 that one out of every four member here will end up with one?

 

[B. West]

If we are lucky. This is a game changer in every sense of the word. It will appeal to the most discerning of buyers.......collectors, wealthy, VIP's, celebritiies, tuners, die-hards, international, imports, you name it. Everybody that knows anything (and even some that don't) about cars and can afford one will be trying to get their hands on THIS car. Not taking price into consideration, the sheer make up of this vehicle from an American manufacturer intrigues the automotive world. I hope enough members here get one just to share the experience.

 

[nautoncall]

There will certainly be a number of garage queens, but that's not a surprise. Look at the number of 05/06 GTs available with 2-8k miles and that car is now 10 years old! Ferrari pumped out 360/430/458s non-stop and they too can be had with under 10,000 miles all day. There will definitely be a number of people that stick the new car in a collection, and there will definitely be a number of guys that beat them mercilessly.

Ultimately it comes down to raison d'être. Raj said the new car grew out of a discussion about how to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the 1-2-3 finish at Le Mans and a desire to put Ford back on the leading edge of technology. That in mind, how do you approach the production of the car? What are your goals? How concerned are you with availability on the open market? Do you sacrifice performance or technology in the pursuit of raw sales? The 05/06 was a pure road car built as a company gift to itself for it's birthday. Expectations were different.

We shall see what happens.

Dave... Thanks for the great explanation. I got it now!! Basically this car is meant to show the world that Ford can build a car better than anyone...looks, performance, and technology!! My hats off.

Everyone is talking about this car... Fchat, lambo talk, nsxprime, etc!! Bravo Ford!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[twobjshelbys]

Specifically to answer the question of the title:

The (fair market) value of "something" is no more and no less than the price that a knowledgeable, willing an unpressured buyer would be willing to pay a knowledgeable, willing and upressured seller in a market.

For some reason this question (with the answer above) is always one of the questions in one of the real estate broker continuing education classes I have to take every three years (in CO).

So that means, if a dealer (who "buys" his product from the manufacturer) adds a markup, and someone is willing to pay it, that establishes "far market value". That will not last long as supply and demand balances. Witness the current thing going on with the Hellcat Challengers.

Has anyone ever thought about the actual environment of an auto dealer? They are the original "factory outlet stores".

 

[FBA]

I don't really get why Ford would make so few of them. If the things sells - make all you can and sell all you can. That's a lot of money to spend building a only a few cars, just for prestige. How would it hurt them or the brand to make thousands that they know they can sell each year?

 

[nemetskii]

Maybe more aura surrounding the idea of it being some what unattainable. Clearly this car is designed not to sell GTs, but to sell the brand, sell the concept of light weighting (the 2015 F150 redesign is based around a 700lb lighter aluminum frame), and ecoboost technology.

 

[twobjshelbys]

I don't really get why Ford would make so few of them. If the things sells - make all you can and sell all you can. That's a lot of money to spend building a only a few cars, just for prestige. How would it hurt them or the brand to make thousands that they know they can sell each year?

What if....

The first cars will be issued as model year 2017. What if they know that in model year 2021 there is some obstacle once again (as there was at the end of 2006-2007) that wouldn't allow the design to continue without major changes? I will assert our street cars are a necessary evil for homologation, and if the requirements in the known horizon would make the street version require changes, it wouldn't make sense to try to build up a large production line of vehicles that may not be sellable. These aren't secretary's Mustangs, they are quite pricey so no one would want unsold inventory. That doesn't mean a design change in 2022 wouldn't be there. Just that the production of this "series" would be structured to insure all are sold.

Just trying to make a business plan work I don't know what the gummint is planning then, maybe someone else has what the EPA requirements for fleet in 2022 will be.

 

[2112]

Simple solution to that is build to order, no inventory to floor, market, sell or sit on if demand wanes.

 

[twobjshelbys]

Simple solution to that is build to order, no inventory to floor, market, sell or sit on if demand wanes.

I agree with that premise and would truly hope they would do that. But the "dealer infrastructure" is just like lobbyists in Washington. We can always hope for what is logical but will usually be disappointed.

Didn't Mark Fields already say that "all production has already been spoken for" and that we are like pimples on their butt for the first year?

 

[nemetskii]

Like it or not, while the ultimate consumer is extremely important and never to be forgotten, it's the dealership who is the actual customer. The dealers are the ones ordering millions of dollars of vehicles and parts monthly. Would hardly stand to reason that Ford would toss those relationships aside. That being said, I do think there is something to be said for more than 1200 cars. Ultimately, I don't think they'll ever intend to sell enough to really consider this a profit center. As a result, theye got to produce whatever number they feel will showcase and create a buzz around these concepts that they are popularizing. Seems like the buzz created by unattainabikity might be out weighing the popularity through real world accessibility some here might favor.

 

[twobjshelbys]

Like it or not, while the ultimate consumer is extremely important and never to be forgotten, it's the dealership who is the actual customer. The dealers are the ones ordering millions of dollars of vehicles and parts monthly. Would hardly stand to reason that Ford would toss those relationships aside. That being said, I do think there is something to be said for more than 1200 cars. Ultimately, I don't think they'll ever intend to sell enough to really consider this a profit center. As a result, theye got to produce whatever number they feel will showcase and create a buzz around these concepts that they are popularizing. Seems like the buzz created by unattainabikity might be out weighing the popularity through real world accessibility some here might favor.

I'll let the actual dealers pipe in, but in days gone by several dealer friends say that new vehicle sales do not pay the bills. The profits come from used car sales and service departments.

I also believe that if Ford "took orders" for cars, instead of building and delivering vehicles to the dealer network (and accepting those would be build to order purchases through the dealer network) that in the first year of production they would sell all they could build. In practice, the long (or short) pole in the tent is going to be the CF tubs since they are apparently hand built. No tickie no laundry (no tub no car).

 

[Kayvan]

So....why did ford ''05/6 GTs sell for MSRP after first 1,200 were sold AND why were $185K Gulfs hard to move, months after people paid $200+K for GTs in Aug. '04. ,

Answer:# of rich car guys is limited

'14 Ferrari Sales: 7,000
'14 Lambo Sales: 2,500

So, if the the rich exotic-car guy buyer universe is 10-12,000 annually worldwide...I would say 1,200 '16 GTs is plenty.

 

[twobjshelbys]

So....why did ford ''05/6 GTs sell for MSRP after first 1,200 were sold AND why were $185K Gulfs hard to move, months after people paid $200+K for GTs in Aug. '04. ,

Answer:# of rich car guys is limited

'14 Ferrari Sales: 7,000
'14 Lambo Sales: 2,500

So, if the the rich exotic-car guy buyer universe is 10-12,000 annually worldwide...I would say 1,200 '16 GTs is plenty.

Ah, you just described "Total Available Market" (TAM) perfectly.

 

[Bart Carter]

I think the most Ford can get from this car would be the boost to the Ford image. The more that are on the street, the better. I still get people all the time approach me and ask "what is it"? They do not associate Ford with this capability. It certainly changes their opinion of Fords.

So, get the new GTs into the hands of everyone they can, ESPECIALLY people that would regularly drive them. Those type of people should go the head of the waiting list.

The solution from Tony above, BUILD TO ORDER, would be perfect. Everyone that wanted one could have the opportunity. Order through the dealers to keep them happy. No excess car inventory. The public would see them and recognize Ford in a different light than Mustangs.

 

[shesgotlegs]

I purchased ( 2 ) 2006 Ford GT's brand new and STILL OWN 1 of them putting 57,000 miles on the clock and 22,000 on the other.

I also purchased brand new and STILL OWN ALL of the following : ( 1 ) 2014 F150 FX4 supercrew fully loaded including Eco Boost , appearance pkg, Nav, etc. etc and BEST Ford extended 5 year Warranty, ( 2 ) 2014 Transits, ( 2 ) 2012 Transits, ( 1 ) 2012 F150 STX Supercab, ( 1 ) 2010 Flex Limited fully loaded included Eco Boost, AWD, glass roof, fridge, 4 heated bucket seats, self park, yada yada... literally every option including premium paint as well as the Ford 4 year 120,000 km prepaid service deal, ( 1 ) 2006 F150 Lariat 4x4 Supercrew fully loaded, ( 1 ) 2003 F150 Harley Davidson 100 year anniversary Edition.

I also purchased brand new and eventually wore out ( 1 ) 2002 F150 Lariat 4x4 Supercrew fully loaded as well as ( 1 ) 1989 F150 XLT Supercrew.

Oh yeah I also own a 2007 Miller Motorsports Mustang GT.

Finally, I'm in the process of replacing my GM truck fleet with Ford trucks.

Bottom line : If I don't get a legitimate opportunity to purchase one of the 2017 GT's, I'll be pissed to say the very least! :skep

 

[roketman]

Maybe Ford should use this ad again!
Be sure to read the lower right corner of the ad!
It says
“Would you let your daughter marry a Ford owner”

 

[Apollo]

I purchased ( 2 ) 2006 Ford GT's brand new and STILL OWN 1 of them putting 57,000 miles on the clock and 22,000 on the other.

I also purchased brand new and STILL OWN ALL of the following : ( 1 ) 2014 F150 FX4 supercrew fully loaded including Eco Boost , appearance pkg, Nav, etc. etc and BEST Ford extended 5 year Warranty, ( 2 ) 2014 Transits, ( 2 ) 2012 Transits, ( 1 ) 2012 F150 STX Supercab, ( 1 ) 2010 Flex Limited fully loaded included Eco Boost, AWD, glass roof, fridge, 4 heated bucket seats, self park, yada yada... literally every option including premium paint as well as the Ford 4 year 120,000 km prepaid service deal, ( 1 ) 2006 F150 Lariat 4x4 Supercrew fully loaded, ( 1 ) 2003 F150 Harley Davidson 100 year anniversary Edition.

I also purchased brand new and eventually wore out ( 1 ) 2002 F150 Lariat 4x4 Supercrew fully loaded as well as ( 1 ) 1989 F150 XLT Supercrew.

Oh yeah I also own a 2007 Miller Motorsports Mustang GT.

Finally, I'm in the process of replacing my GM truck fleet with Ford trucks.

Bottom line : If I don't get a legitimate opportunity to purchase one of the 2017 GT's, I'll be pissed to say the very least! :skep

I think there are several of us here that bleed Ford Blue with similar stories. I too have purchased over 25 retail Ford purchases over about the last dozen years. :usa
I was not able to secure an 05/06 GT from a dealer and had to resort to the secondary market. I found dealers that were asking way over sticker but until the market came back down I was out of luck. I am now socking away every bit of cash I can and hoping it will be enough to put towards one of these masterpieces. I have not been this passionate about a car since I was a kid. I loved the 05/06, but this version GT - I am floored! This is close to perfection, I sure hope I can secure one at some point.
I am certain Ford will come up with as fair as possible way to distribute these, I imagine a lottery to their dealers is most likely. In the meantime, I am anxiously waiting and watching to learn what the process will be.
I can only hope that my chocolate bar will hold one of the golden tickets... :biggrin

[video=youtube;_bw9RE_ruMk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bw9RE_ruMk[/video]

 

[dbk]

A couple thoughts:

-Could you ever envision a scenario in which Ford would charge a lower MSRP for the new car than the current market value of the old car?

If a typical, moderate mileage 2006 Ford GT holds a market value of $250k, leaving aside the fact the new car is a completely different category of performance capability and significantly more complex/costly in it's construction, what rationale would there be for Ford to charge lower than MY06 market price for the new car? Isn't this the strongest invitation for significant ADM possible?

-What would the effect be on my current GT if they did up the volume and charge less for the new car?

A number have people have made the point that the Ferrari/Lamborghini customer is a different customer than the typical GT customer. I think that's a simplification, but assume it is true. If the pool of buyers for this car is a small subset of exotic car buyers in that price range specifically because it's a Ford, if they up volume and lower price on the new car anywhere close to last gen, what's the virtually certain effect this would have on the old car?

Personally, I feel an ultra high-performance, high-price, low-volume successor in the lineage is the best-case scenario. People want a shot at the new car, but nothing is free. If they produced an additional 4k units of a car named Ford GT and priced it below average for the segment, the GT or GTs you have now are going to be worth less, end of story. This is especially true if you subscribe to the theory that the pool of buyers is limited by the blue oval on the fascia. The car they are building at the volume and pricing considered presents a clear delineation between generations and, in my opinion, best preserves the value of the old car.

I would also note that Lamborghini has been selling around 1000 Aventadors a year. These are $400k+ and frequently $500k+ cars. Ferrari seems to be building ~6 V12 cars a day for the global market, and these often go above $400k. You can option a Speciale well over $350k and then it will likely trade for a large premium over that. Plenty of buyers in this category, especially for something with superior performance.

 

[nemetskii]

DBK, in spite of the fact that a low MSRP car could drop the values of existing GTs, wouldn't it be a powerful testament to Fords entire product line that they can produce a car even better than the competition at a significantly lower price point. I would say there is value in that idea, because at that point I'm now looking at the value I receive in my ecoboost explorer or aluminum framed f-150. If it's a low volume, but still low price release, do you accomplish both goals? Preserve current market value and lore of existing GTs (not that I think this is any manufacturers first priority) while also putting the technology and value on display?