Stories about how we obtained our GT'S

[eshrink]

KO Supply:

I am in the throes of leasing a car for my 15+ year old daughter.

A 2006 Honda Civic, end of the year, is selling for full MSRP. Demand far exceeds supply. I can only imagine what type of GM car I could lease for that amount.

I can only imagine because I cannot risk putting her in a car with low reliability and modest economy.

Interesting kids nowadays. I asked her what are her criteria for a car. She replied: a. great fuel economy, b. high reliability. Other than those two, she did not care about color, options, or manufacturer. However, she felt that Honda was the best option based upon her own investigation.

A changed world from when we were that age.

- doc

 

[s420merc]

The whole low wage high parts cost argument is BS. Toyota builds the Camry in the US with US workers and alot of US made parts. If i needed a car in the class of a Camry it would be my only choice. Its priced competativly with the big 3 Cars. But its years ahead in build quality and reliability and ergonomics and dealer service is much better.
Untill the big 3 start to build cars comparable to Toyota for the same price and clean up their dealer network they will keeep on loosing market share.
Its that simple and all their excuses are BS if Toyota can build a car in the US that everyone buys why cant they.

 

[eshrink]

I wonder (because) I do not know where the main U.S. manufacturing plants are for Honda and Toyota. Geographical location can determine your workers and their values.

There is no question that the Japanese see, structure and implement a different work ethic even when using American workers.

You see that not only in Japanese cars but in their electronics as well. To them, it is an honor to work, to work hard, to work consistently, to work with pride and to create an object of which they are proud.

They are rewarded for that ethic and adhering to it.

I am assuming that those who built the GTs worked very hard, quite consistently and were very proud of the work that they did.

But I "forget"...were these GT workers rewarded for their efforts...as in promoted to newer and greater jobs at the end of this project? I mean if they are to be treated consistently with their Japanese manufacturer counterparts are they rewarded for those efforts...just asking.

They were not just discarded when this project was done...were they?

- doc

 

[EasyEric]

See this link about auto dependability after 3 years (more meaningful than initial quality). http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/MostDependableCar.aspx

As you can see, American cars are quite dependable, competing with the Japanese makes and beating most German (and European) makes. In fact Mercury (a Ford Motor company product), Buick and Cadillac BEAT Toyota, Acura and Honda!

Eric

 

[eshrink]

But Eric....is it not all about "perceptions" of reliability.

American cars have long been perceived as less reliable. Their depreciation is extreme. They are always plentiful, always on sale, always incentives...how many times a year do we hear zero percent financing.

Adding to this has been their uninspired design.

How about a Pontiac Aztec with a HEMI?

What appealed to me about the Viper was that it just did not seem like something Dodge would make.

Apparently, Dodge now feels the same way.

In either case, the Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota, but which would people buy first? And who is responsible for all of this? Is it us the consumer?

Have you seen the Dr. Z commercials? Does it inspire you to buy a Dodge?

Heck, I just spent a lot on an American car, but it just did not inspire me to buy another.

Your 911 may inspire you to buy a Cayenne and a Cayman...your S550 may inspire your to buy a CLS55, but will your Viper make you want to buy a Caliber?

I do not think the problem is with us, the consumer.

- doc

 

[EasyEric]

I agree with you about perception doc, it's just that most people's perceptions are wrong, certainly when it comes to the reliability (dependability) of American made cars. Hopefully the link I provided shed light on the issue.

Most people "percieve" the moon is round; it's not: it's actually oblate. A lot of people "perceive" American cars are less reliable than foreign cars; they're not. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your side of transaction), depreciation is influenced more by "perception" (or desireability or cache etc.) than facts about dependability.

Inspiration is one of those intangibles that is SO subjective. I personally believe most vehicles being produced (foreign and domestic) are bland, generic and fungible so it surprises me when people show such ardent fealty to certain car brands.

I for one tend to be dispassionate about most vehicles and buy based purely on utility (e.g., gas mileage, reliability, comfort, value), EXCEPT in those rare cases when something inimitable and definitive comes along: my '97 Viper coupe and my GT. But then again, I learned a long time ago most people, unlike me, are unduly emotionally driven.

By the way, in my opinion, a Toyota Scion xA or a Honda element are as ugly and uninspirational as an Aztek and I wouldn't have either one, even with a Hemi, 427FE or Ferrari V-12! (I apologize in advance if I've offended any members which may own Aztek's, xA's or Elements). :biggrin

Eric

 

[eshrink]

Eric:

I would love if people had to self-correct because they perceived things incorrectly (well, maybe not...I would then have a whole lot of free time), but people's perceptions rule life...especially erroneous perceptions (e.g. "if we would just try to communicate openly with terrorists, they would not hate us so"....).

I think American car manufacturers have created a problem from which they cannot easily be extricated.

Regarding the Honda Element...well, I do not like it, but I gather many people do, and because it is a Honda, I would consider buying one...or if were a Nissan...or Toyota...Kia.... Now if it were a Chevrolet, I would likely dismiss it.

There is a great story about Picaso from many years ago. Someone asked him how to get to a certain villa. He tried to explain and then realized that he could draw it on a napkin much more easily. The visitor ask if he would sign it.

He said "no, right now, it is a map, but if I sign it, it is a work of art."

- doc

 

[ROCMAN]

I think the bland styling of todays american cars, mixed with all the cheap, money saving synthetic wood trims, and many afterthoughts in the overall design is what is bringing the sales down.
There are some awesome looking Dodge products lately, but the interior severly lacks. I was looking at a Magnum and a Charger (both SRT8's).
They wanted $K over for the Charger, and I just started laughing! They got it down to Sticker, and I am a fair guy and thought that it was a good car for sticker.
I was looking for something with some trunk space, and thought that I would not be worried about these in a parking lot with the cart bashing housewives, but I just could not take the interior.
I drove up to the BMW dealer and found a new M5 on the floor and bought it. I ended up spending 2X as much, but the level of quality was lightyears ahead.
I do realize that these cars are not direct competitors, but I do think that if the interior was not so plastic, I would have bought it without even going to the other dealer.
I would love to buy only American brand cars, but until they raise the level of fit and finish, and well as improve styling, I will continue to buy German or Japanese.

 

[ROCMAN]

I think the bland styling of todays american cars, mixed with all the cheap, money saving synthetic wood trims, and many afterthoughts in the overall design is what is bringing the sales down.
There are some awesome looking Dodge products lately, but the interior severly lacks. I was looking at a Magnum and a Charger (both SRT8's).
They wanted $5K over for the Charger, and I just started laughing! They got it down to Sticker, and I am a fair guy and thought that it was a good car for sticker.
I was looking for something with some trunk space, and thought that I would not be worried about these in a parking lot with the cart bashing housewives, but I just could not take the interior.
I drove up to the BMW dealer and found a new M5 on the floor and bought it. I ended up spending 2X as much, but the level of quality was lightyears ahead.
I do realize that these cars are not direct competitors, but I do think that if the interior was not so plastic, I would have bought it without even going to the other dealer.
I would love to buy only American brand cars, but until they raise the level of fit and finish, and well as improve styling, I will continue to buy German or Japanese.

 

[eshrink]

Rocman:

Perhaps the BMW and the Charger are direct competitors. It is a run-what-you-brung world. If their best cost hugely more, but it oursells our best, then shame on us.

This asking above MSRP has certainly contributed to the problem. I can see $1500 over invoice for a fully optioned Z06, but no one would offer me that. I can see $1k over invoice for the forthcoming Challenger...it will not happen. I can see $1k over invoice for a Shelby 500, yet clearly, I will pay MSRP for a German car.

Anyway, perhaps the topic is depleted. We all want the American cars to be different, and certainly cheap interior is an important (tip of the iceberg) factor.

- doc

 

[Motor City Madman]

I like the GT. It is priced high enough to keep out the riff-raff (well, almost) and it is priced low enough that I do not have to be concerned about spending the money. I love its provenance.

- doc

My sentiments exactly. I mean just think of what it would do to resale values if the "unwashed" could easily afford this car. I so tire of the riff-raff, and they always seem to have a peculiar odor don't you think?

 

[FB GT40]

Reply

Doc, the Civic is a great car. My daughter got one at 16. Lookout however, it's the most 'profiled' car on the planet. Just check out all the cops who have some one pulled over. In this area most of them are Honda Civics with young kids driving them. Just an observation. The "post ticket" insurance will kill you. Kirsten, my daughter, wound up with a MB 220D!!!

PS: Here is the defanition of globalization...

Question: What is the truest definition of Globalization?

Answer: Princess Diana's death.

Question: How come?

Answer: An English princess

with an Egyptian boyfriend

crashes in a French tunnel,

driving a German car

with a Dutch engine,

driven by a Belgian who was drunk

on Scottish whisky, (check the bottle before you change the spelling)

followed closely by Italian Paparazzi,

on Japanese motorcycles;

treated by an American doctor,

using Brazilian medicines.

This is sent to you by a Canadian,

using Bill Gate's technology,

and you're probably reading this on your computer,

that uses Taiwanese chips,

and a Korean monitor,

assembled by Bangladeshi workers
in a Singapore plant,

transported by Indian truck drivers,

hijacked by Indonesians,

unloaded by Sicilian longshoremen, (no offense Joey!!)

and trucked to you by Mexican illegals.....

That, my friends, is Globalization :confused

 

[kosupply]

I wasn't even looking when I got mine. I was considering getting a 360CS, and I mentioned it on a forum, and someone brought up the GT. I said I was also interested in a GT as well, but in CA, the prices were high as hell.
A car broker read that post, contacted me, found me a car at the right price, and the rest is history!

I am still going to get a 360CS when I build my new garage.
I dont know about you guys, but I thought American cars were built in America. The day I bought my M5, I was looking at a Charger SRT8, and started reading the window sticker. Man, the motor and tranny is built in Mexico, and the rest of the car was built in Canada! :confused

Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are more American than many of our American Cars! I have no problem buying a Japanese car, as long as it is nice. My old Lexus LS430 was SOLID AS A ROCK and more luxurious than any of my German cars. Man, I miss that Analine Dye Napa Leather! :biggrin

360CS....is that a 360 Challenge Ferrari ?

 

[ROCMAN]

Yup. 360 Challenge Stradale.

 

[kosupply]

I had a 2000 360. Loved the sound and loved the car. Not as easy to drive fast as the GT. I love all the low end torque in the GT. The 360 is all high RPM horsepower. The reception on the road was sometimes mixed. I literally had people shoot me the finger at red lights. It got to where I would lag back if I came to a red light. I have had nothing but positive with the GT. I love Ford and my criticism in this thread is really intended to show my frustration. I want Ford to succeed. Maybe they need to work on that perception in a big way. COME ON PR!!!

 

[THamonGT]

What Friends really mean in this small world!

Having a real Ford GT-40 on our showroom floor in June of 1967 has always kept the want of a Ford GT-40 on my mind for 39 years. Our dealership Gene Hamon Ford in Texas City, Texas was one of the first Shelby dealerships in the State of Texas (signed sales agreement 1963) to handle shelby cobras and GT-350R model which we raced in the 60's (another story). In 2003 I was the first mule (yellow/black) with 4.6 engine at a Ford Show and fell in love with the Ford GT never knowing if I would ever be able to purchase one. Being a small dealer from Texas I started writing everyone I could think of in order to obtain an allocation on one. Well small dealers were told that only way was by lottery, would we ever get an allocation. Not being a lucky person most of the time, our dealership never could get an allocation. Additional letters were written during the 2006 production to Ford and were told (your just too small a dealer). A very close friend in Abilene, Texas knew I wanted a GT personally to keep called me and offered me his 2006 allocation at net cost. (what a friend!) I ordered the GT exactly as I wanted and sent him a check and guess what, It came in the second week of May and is the prettiest automobile I have ever owned. I still can't sleep for thinking about it. I will never sell it. I will follow up and post pictures of my new GT and the GT-40 of 39 years ago if there is interest on the showroom floor of my dealership.

 

[Not 4N]

Have one - Don't have on - Have one

In Aug of last year I learned Ford of Canada would be bringing 200 cars into the country. I immediately phoned the dealer I have been working with for 20 years (have a fleet account through my business) and passed on what I had learned. He had no idea of this news but promised me if they were to get one I would be #1 on the list.

I kept checking in every month until late Nov. when he received a letter from Ford stating his dealership would get one but they wouldn’t take a deposit until they had it confirmed.
Another month passes and I call again and hear I have been bumped to #2 – which normally wouldn’t be a problem unless, of course, the dealer was only getting one, which it was. I expressed my disappointment and asked why I got bumped and the response was the owner of the dealership had promised it to someone as well and since my contact is the lease mgr. he wasn’t able to swing the deal my way. I even contacted Ford directly to let them know I was serious about the car but they were not willing to pass on the allocation list so I could find another. :bs Easy come easy go.

At this point I consoled myself with the purchase of a ’70 Boss 429 – seemed to be a good pacifier since I have numerous other Mustangs of that era. :thumbsup

After all of this was forgotten I get a call from my friend in March stating they were being considered for another car, but again no guarantees. Again he wouldn’t take a deposit until it was confirmed but assured me I was #1 on the list this time. After two more months he shows up at my office with a letter he received from Ford that morning confirming the second car. Needless to say my deposit went with him back to the dealership along with the signed order form. I later met with the owner of the dealership and he confirmed the car’s order was in the system and it is officially mine. He had two other people who were very serious and one asked him to ask me if I would sell the car to him for 50k over what I paid (which was MSRP) and I politely declined – maybe I was crazy – not.

I can't wait to see my car in Oct. and with only 200 coming to the country I feel very privileged to be on the owners list.

:cheers

Trent

 

[Spirit]

Have wanted a Ford GT40 since the 60’s but knew they [real ones] were, both then and from that point in time forward, too expensive for me to actually afford [just because you can buy something doesn’t mean you can afford to own it].

Then when Ford announced they were going to actually build the GT, I thought, WOW, maybe I really can get one. When they did start producing the GT, the dealer GOUGING that was going on was out of reason, [after all it is against my religion to pay more than ‘sticker’ for ANY new car], and I do not have a relative working at Ford.

So after waiting a while for reality to set in with dealers, I found one on an EBay listing by an after-seller broker, but did not want to buy one from a broker. While looking at the pictures in the listing, my wife noticed that the license plate holder said ‘Red McCombs Ford’. Red McCombs is one of the largest car dealers in central Texas, as well as having owned a number of major sports franchises [San Antonio Spurs, Denver Nuggets, Minnesota Vikings], and has a Ford dealership located in San Antonio, Texas; about 40 miles from our home. Called them and they said that in fact they did have the car for sale at their dealership.

Well, Red McComb’s daughter runs that dealership, and it just so happens that she lives behind my mother’s house located across a creek out here in this little country town we live near.

The deal was struck that evening at ‘sticker price’, check written, and picked up the car.

Car has been terrific, as has the dealer [by the way, I will be having lunch with Red this coming Thursday in another small Texas town where my business is located].

Moral of the story; it does pay to have dreams, goals, and patience; as well as live in small country towns.

 

[Cyclenirvana]

Here is an article that I think nicely sums up some of the points made on this thread:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=40

The following is from this article.
"Ford just doesn't get the whole long-term thing, do they? Their minivan tanks and they cut bait and run. The Lincoln LS looks a bit old in the tooth and they kill it stone dead in an endless pursuit of The Next Big Thing. The Ford GT wins the hearts and minds of millions of enthusiasts but the company's attention span for it is only two years long. In fact, I'm so disappointed about the GT's short run I'm contemplating a Ford Death Watch. So far, I've resisted the urge because I didn't think The Blue Oval Boys were headed for the buffers. Now, I'm not so sure. By failing to capitalize on the long-term benefits available from making a car like the GT, Ford has revealed itself as short-sighted, timid and clueless. If left unchecked, these traits will prove fatal to a company that once aimed for the pinnacle, and, despite the odds, got there in style."

My sense from many Americans is the inability to look forward...to invest in the future...to stop relying on the past. The Japanese automakers see this better than we do. Furthermore, most people (Americans) I know have a "lottery" mentality, and polls of Americans show that most believe this is the fastest way to wealth (despite the odds!). How can I shed the pounds with the least discomfort to me? No one becomes fit and trim by accident, nor does a company "accidentally" manufacture a quality product fit for the times. It takes pain, sacrifice, and vision...all elements that made the GT. But I have doubts that these traits are part of the big 3 management.

 

[fjpikul]

Don't people look at automobiles as evolution? Seat belts, airbags, anti-lock brakes, safety bumpers, etc. Ford said we're building it for 2 years, bumper laws change, they did what they said, what's to criticise? I'm one of the happy ones that fulfilled a boyhood dream. Maybe the critics are the ones who can't or don't want to!