Still Running Hot


cobrar1339

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 2, 2006
956
Diamond Bar, Ca
A comment in #4(Mad in NC) stated that the K&N air filter pattern is perpendicular in air flow in the box and air flow is not good? Even the K&N filter designed for the Ford GT? Could someone elaborate on this as I feel many of us are using the K&N filter at this time. Should we go back to the Factory filter and sh..can the K&N filter. Tomy Hamon

IMO it is very doubtful that filtration has anything to do with track temps. I was thinking that comment was a side bar, as a potential performance flaw was noticed.

I have not yet inspected the K&N for the GT. Maybe MAD could elaborate on his findings. I think he is saying the pleats run the oposite direction of the OEM filter ?. There are two things going on down there, suction from the motor and the ram air presurizing the box.

I'm sure we could get K&N to elaborate on the reasoning or even make a change if that were a problem. The owner has a GT and many Vipers, he is a real car guy like us. They dyno everything they do. But, what MAD is suggesting would not show on a dyno IMO. He may have uncovered something K&N would love to hear.

If we think it is a concern I could get K&N to give us more info. It's not like them to miss a detail like this, but not impossible either. The pleat orientaion is a very easy change if it is needed IMO.


When K&N comes up, there are various opinions about the product that come up as well. I have personally gotten involved in this controversy and offer below what I found on inspection.

As for the filter itself, it's gotten much better over the last few years.......
In some circles they have gotten a bad rap as it is thought an oiled media will deposit a film on the mass air wire, thus allowing to collect fine dirt easier. When this happens the feedback from the heated wire can be confused by the ECM and adjust for something that is not there. The result could be a bad idle Lumpy as it would more often dump excess fuel in this situation. The fix was simple, clean the wire with a spray of electronic cleaner.

True or Not?. I have been through the K&N lab and I would say false at this point. They have had a state of the art facility for the last few years. They do the CART/ IRL/ Indy car filters, each is tested and serial numbered. All cars in those series were running their products. But that does not mean much for a daily driver.

Enter R&D and the Dirt GUY. He has a full lab where they test dirt at different micron levels to insure each filter provides the proper amount of protection to the engine and Mass air wire. Each filter design has many, many hours on the test device to pass. They literally suck dirt of different micron levels through the filter 24 hours a day for many days. The Dirt guy ( I just call him that) has many jars of certified, numbered dirt/dust from all over the world. They did this testing as their had been rumors from an OEM's that they would not warranty a K&N filter. The Moss Magnusen act requires them to do so. K&N has provided the testing and the Mfg. Retracted the statement/warning.

When cleaning your K&N, the trick is to not over oil the filter and wait for the oil to flow evenly across the mesh. Over oiled filters run too quickly can cause the Mass Air wire issue some had reported. I was critical of the news on a forum and went to the plant to find out the real deal. After I left I was not longer skeptical. I had seen the mfg. process in 1989 and I have to say the two are night and day different. Same idea, but the control is much different. What once was, is not always what now is. I am running the product in my Z06 and have no worries now, or any issues.

The test facility and R&D dept are some of the most impressive in the aftermarket now. For local GT owners, I am sure the owner would host us for a tour if any one had any interest.
 

fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,771
Belleville, IL
Cobra, I'm sure the ice cubes at the bottom of the glass got in MAD's line of vision and caused a visual aberration. Mechanical engineers are known to be impressed with their own hot air.
 

cobrar1339

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 2, 2006
956
Diamond Bar, Ca
Cobra, I'm sure the ice cubes at the bottom of the glass got in MAD's line of vision and caused a visual aberration. Mechanical engineers are known to be impressed with their own hot air.

:cheers, But

I do not doubt MAD has seen something that does not look right. He may very well be on to something. I could see some wavy lines after a couple cold ones, but a 90 deg change?

I think K&N did this set out of passion for the cars IMO. They simply will not ever sell enough to make any real money on these. Which means the stock levels are likely low. If there was something missed I feel pretty confident they are in a good position to correct it.

The rest of the info, is just info after a long debate on another forum over the whole K&N thing a couple years ago. Sorry I got carried away.
 

Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
I have had K&N's for years in my Lambos, Ferrari's, and now 2 years in my FGT. No issues, ever. I can remember when I changed my Diablo 6.0 over to K&N's, I could literally hear the extra air being sucked into the engine from the driver's seat, it was that noticeable. Throttle response has always been improved as well. Granted I hear and feel things in cars most people will never notice, but I can assure you they are doing something and no one can convince me that more air into an engine is bad for it. I never drove the FGT without them, so I don't have a comparison. As stated by COBRAR1339, the only real worry is improperly cleaned and re-oiled filters. To me it's just silly to even attempt to clean and re-oil the filters in the first place, simply buy a new one. K&N has the equipment to oil these filters perfectly every time, and they are not that expensive. Most of the tests that I have seen claiming that K&N's are a waste were useless because the cars were just sitting on a dyno and were not moving forward or not in a wind tunnel to simulate proper airflow into them.
 

ByeEnzo

GT
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Dec 10, 2005
2,318
Fort Worth, TX
Nice that they put hay bales next to the armco in the turns at ECR.
 

red gt 1442

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 23, 2005
754
NY Metro Area
overheating issues...

In reference to what Mad stated about the (Gino Prob).......My car was running hot ever since I left the dealershin in Aug 05......it took almost 2 years and Bob Ida to find the problem........I believe in order to check the radiator the hood might have to be removed.......I know that Bob was able (somehow) shine a flashlight from one side to the other in another FGT and was able to see the light......not so on mine.....and he then went further ..if you find the thread....it will show pictures of the closed fins on the radiator..all caused by a faulty radiator cap. The symptoms were exactly has described in this thread......always running hot, above 220/230, in 1st and 2nd gear.....until eventually around 245 the motor started to shut down.....

I am happy to say that those problems are now behind me.....at 96 degrees outside temp, if my car is rolling, with a/c on...it wont go over 170.

Best of luck in finding the problem....


Gino
 

MAD IN NC

Proud Owner/ BOD blah bla
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 14, 2006
4,220
North Carolina
Cobra, I'm sure the ice cubes at the bottom of the glass got in MAD's line of vision and caused a visual aberration. Mechanical engineers are known to be impressed with their own hot air.

OK Doc.... you don't have to have a PhD for this one here. My observations clear headed as they are this AM are based on simple visual differences being:


1.) The airbox is shown below with the "boot" being connected to the side vents when clamshell is closed...
airbox.jpg


2.) A stock filter shown below have the pleats running the lengthwise of the filter itself
stock.jpg


3.) While the K&N filter (33-2317) for the FGT pleating is perpendicular to the length and flow of the box
kN.jpg



As far as performance I can't claim any facts about heat impact or performance yet- when I'll dyno the Whipple in a couple of weeks I'll take a run with both and let ya'll now the results.

Remember Franky - I'll be drinking 1 hr earlier than you this weekend and BTW - hope it's dry finally so you can drive. Heading over to the local C&C.... :cheers
 
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Fubar

Totally ****** Up
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 2, 2006
3,979
Dallas, TX
Fubar,
I have only tracked at Motorsport Ranch, but that day I was pushing 230-240 degrees by the end of a session.

How is Eagles Canyon? Seen pics of the layout, but not been there yet. I know the long straights will make it fun. What speed did you see on them? At MSR I only reach 110-115 on the straight before rattlesnake. Would like a comparison. I have heard that Eagles Canyon will be tough on brakes, with all that additional speed. Are you a member there?

Thanks!
phil

The track is designed for "power" cars like the GT, Corvettes and Vipers. The straights are a blast, I was seeing speeds near 150 on the straights. The brakes do get a workout but I think it has to do with elevation issues than with the big straights. If I really knew the track I could have done much better but there are several turns that you can see until you crest a hill so I was overly cautious coming into them.

I am not a member. I was just invited out there by classic BMW and allowed to run while they adjusted settings on their race car. I don't think it is worth joining out there until they improve the surface A LOT. There are several big bumps in the big straight and some of the braking areas look like ocean waves. My anti locks always kicked on. Once they get the surface right... I'd be a player.

A comment in #4(Mad in NC) stated that the K&N air filter pattern is perpendicular in air flow in the box and air flow is not good? Even the K&N filter designed for the Ford GT? Could someone elaborate on this as I feel many of us are using the K&N filter at this time. Should we go back to the Factory filter and sh..can the K&N filter. Tomy Hamon

I thought the big problem with the K&N filters was the oil flying off and hitting the MAF. That would send the computer into a tizzy. Also, when tested they show a small power loss compared to stock.