Sportscar Market April/June
- Thread starter dbk
- Start date
fjpikul
GT Owner
BlackICE
GT Owner
In a free market only 2 things set the price, supply and demand. Given the larger than usual supply of >4000 for a collectable car, the demand must be extraordinary! A true testament of the FGT's desirability. We are all fortunate to own one and many more than one.
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FENZO
GT Owner
Tomcat
GT Owner
Funny, three years ago when I was looking at GTs I talked to a exotic dealer friend of mine and he said buy all the Panteras you know of (as I already have one and he knew that I knew where they were). I too bought the GT and LOVE both cars...but made the right decision!
Kingman
GT Owner
A certain, highly visible individual from the automotive industry that had a TV show is buying and refurbishing Panteras as quickly as he can find them.
debtdrives
GT Owner
Tomcat
GT Owner
Demand rules here.
Gentlemen,
The collectibility of 1960's Shelby Mustangs is unquestioned. During 1966 Ford/Shelby built over 4000 GT350's IN ONE MODEL YEAR. A large # of Ford GT's have been scrapped because salvage/parts values are so high. A lot of GT's have been shipped out of the US to foreign buyers over the last decade. I don't think there are more than 2500 clean title GT's in the US today and that isn't a big number compared to the number of auto enthusiasts who would love to own one and can afford one. In my opinion the 2005-6 GT's are the most beautiful cars ever made and I'm far from alone with this opinion. Some things transcend changing fashion and varying trends. The North American P-51D Mustang is another example. Since 1943 it has represented the pinnacle of aviation beauty to a ton of people including kids born 50 years after it was out of production. The Ford GT is like that.
I have never wavered in my opinion that anybody who thinks the GT isn't a seriously desirable collector car is nuts. Yeah they aren't as rare as unicorns but demand will never go away because they are excellent cars that are timelessly beautiful. That's my take on it.
Chip
Gentlemen,
The collectibility of 1960's Shelby Mustangs is unquestioned. During 1966 Ford/Shelby built over 4000 GT350's IN ONE MODEL YEAR. A large # of Ford GT's have been scrapped because salvage/parts values are so high. A lot of GT's have been shipped out of the US to foreign buyers over the last decade. I don't think there are more than 2500 clean title GT's in the US today and that isn't a big number compared to the number of auto enthusiasts who would love to own one and can afford one. In my opinion the 2005-6 GT's are the most beautiful cars ever made and I'm far from alone with this opinion. Some things transcend changing fashion and varying trends. The North American P-51D Mustang is another example. Since 1943 it has represented the pinnacle of aviation beauty to a ton of people including kids born 50 years after it was out of production. The Ford GT is like that.
I have never wavered in my opinion that anybody who thinks the GT isn't a seriously desirable collector car is nuts. Yeah they aren't as rare as unicorns but demand will never go away because they are excellent cars that are timelessly beautiful. That's my take on it.
Chip
Kingman
GT Owner
GTdrummer
GT Owner
Keith Martin is a friend and has a great mag, but imo he misses it from time to time, like he did here in spades. Not sure how he would explain things like Z8s (with its share of issues) which I believe were almost double GT production.
What irritated me more was a long letter to the editor agreeing and postulating that the small number of GT dealer resellers could be affecting the market. Not only is that untrue , but it allows for a very nasty inference.
Anyway, Keith is aware of this thread and while he didn't change his mind was glad folks are paying attention. History has, and will continue to prove him wrong on this one.
What irritated me more was a long letter to the editor agreeing and postulating that the small number of GT dealer resellers could be affecting the market. Not only is that untrue , but it allows for a very nasty inference.
Anyway, Keith is aware of this thread and while he didn't change his mind was glad folks are paying attention. History has, and will continue to prove him wrong on this one.
soroush
Ford Gt Owner
- Aug 8, 2007
- 5,256
I was going to say something about the secondary market, and the resellers, or the people that influence the market, but I think the Gt is actually one of the examples that is least affected by this market, however I think there are many cars that require a price adjustment and I think their current status is most likely hyped due to the resellers aggressive approach in "collectibility"
this whole movement with all the shows on tv regarding selling, buying, chasing, wheeling, dealing, restoring, flipping doesn't help the matter either, I wonder if this has not caused a pseudo market for some of these cars that perhaps would not be there otherwise.
daytrayd
GT Owner
As someone heavily involved in the markets, the GT will pullback when the car market corrects. People who think its immune reminds me of people buying apple saying its immune to market sentiment. However, that correction wont happen until we have a real softening in the world economy. It could be in the next few months, could be years. Just watch the s&p 500 if your curious how resilient the car market is. I will say, and someone whos been around longer than I can attest, is I've rarely seen new cars doubling like the rs 4.0 and I'm sure the 911R will do. The RS is something they put out every generation, just seems crazy to me. Throw in the 918 doubling and the LaF tripling quadrupling and you know the market is much closer to the end than the beginning. However, I dont see the GT going back to $150's anytime soon, unless we are in a major recession for years. Any correction should be relatively tame compared to the last recession imo, but you never know how the QE will unwind. August was an indication the market has lots of soft money looking for the exit at any sign of weakness. Good luck out there.
Cavan
Cavan
matteuson
GT Owner
I read the article and the letter to the editor as a SCM subscriber. I think it was spot on for 99% of it. What Keith and the letter writer missed was, this phenomenon is occurring in other places within the car market. My favorite example is the comparison to the F40. Both flag ship cars to their marque and both produced in high volume. Also important to note that Keith does not offer an opinion on what the value of an FGT would be in the event of favor shifting or market correction.
Lets say a good, relative low mileage Ferrari F40 is $1,250,000. They made 1,315 of them. Using that ratio, if they made 2,630 of them they would be valued around $625,000.00. If they made 5,260 of them they would be valued around $312,500.00. Makes the FGT look like a relative bargin with a median price of $275,000.00 for the same low mileage example.
Is the F40, Countach, 959, F50, Enzo and FGT market overheated? Probably yes. But like others have stated here, it will take a major global market correction to turn this around. Even a 25% market correction (which is a huge correction) would bring FGT prices into the $210-$220 range (for relative low mile cars).
On the other hand, in the coming global market (and subsequent car market) correction, not all generations of cars are treated equal. Cars from the 40s-70s will be hit hardest because the demographic that would rescue it are not buying any more cars. The best of the best will always recover to a new high but a lot of production cars from that era will never recover. I would much rather be sitting on something from the 80s-00s as that demographic (people born in the 60s, 70s and 80s) are hitting their peak earning years and can afford to ride a downturn.
Want that Lusso or 275 GTB, just wait about 10 years when prices are in half. Want a FGT, better buy it sooner than later. Like the stock market, you can't time it so better to by a late model, timeless example like the FGT. You could go wrong in worst ways.
Lets say a good, relative low mileage Ferrari F40 is $1,250,000. They made 1,315 of them. Using that ratio, if they made 2,630 of them they would be valued around $625,000.00. If they made 5,260 of them they would be valued around $312,500.00. Makes the FGT look like a relative bargin with a median price of $275,000.00 for the same low mileage example.
Is the F40, Countach, 959, F50, Enzo and FGT market overheated? Probably yes. But like others have stated here, it will take a major global market correction to turn this around. Even a 25% market correction (which is a huge correction) would bring FGT prices into the $210-$220 range (for relative low mile cars).
On the other hand, in the coming global market (and subsequent car market) correction, not all generations of cars are treated equal. Cars from the 40s-70s will be hit hardest because the demographic that would rescue it are not buying any more cars. The best of the best will always recover to a new high but a lot of production cars from that era will never recover. I would much rather be sitting on something from the 80s-00s as that demographic (people born in the 60s, 70s and 80s) are hitting their peak earning years and can afford to ride a downturn.
Want that Lusso or 275 GTB, just wait about 10 years when prices are in half. Want a FGT, better buy it sooner than later. Like the stock market, you can't time it so better to by a late model, timeless example like the FGT. You could go wrong in worst ways.
Mike Mosing
GT Owner
I agree with this. The only thing that will ultimately drive the price down is the overall economy. It's how I got my first GT below sticker with 136 miles on it. The collectors will start selling at a fast clip when the economy dumps and they cash out. I also agree with the majority here that it doesn't matter. Nobody but my heirs get my GT's and with any kinda luck that will be a long time from now.
Gentlemen,
I don't think anybody, including me, has suggested that the Ford GT or any other collectable is immune to a rising or falling economy. You are missing the point. I am simply disputing the statement above. The P-51D and the Ford GT will rise or fall in price but they will always be desirable collectibles because their beauty and function is timeless. Many older Lamborghini's have not aged well and look weird today. Ditto some Ferrari's. I know many people, myself included, who think the Countach looks clownish today but I don't know anybody who doesn't think the GT-40 and Ford GT are beautiful. Just saying.
Chip
PeteK
GT Owner
A common comment I've heard at car shows about FGTs, "That's my dream car." I don't hear that comment about other cars nearly as often. With that many people who lust after a FGT, the prices won't drop much, even if there is an overall correction in the collectible car market.
Gene Cassone
GT Owner
Are the "experts" forgetting 05-06 GTs are the only real American "supercar" in last 30 plus years! Not only are they drop dead gorgeous but also have the running gear and heritage behind them! Relatively low cost maintenance compared to others and limited production updates now every ten years make them highly collectible- period!!!
A correction is coming especially in the later production F and P markets but I I believe less so in GT market (if so will pick up a heritage!)
A correction is coming especially in the later production F and P markets but I I believe less so in GT market (if so will pick up a heritage!)
Cobrar
GT Owner
To which I would just add; GT - Last of analog supercars. Trend is/has been away from these to the 'digital' world.