So.... anybody ready to start talking about alternative gauges for the FGT?

[BlackICE]

I looked at one gauge and found that the microprocessor (Cypress Semiconductor CY8C26233) was not clocking. The supply regulator was normal (5.02v) so it may be a problem within the micro oscillator. I also agree that it is probably related to a voltage spike that the gauge board cannot suppress.

Is the oscillator external to the chip and what type, discrete crystal, TTL can, etc. ?

I am not familar with the CY8C26233, but most micro-controllers have the ability to read out the code if the security bit is not set. What is the case with this part?

 

[laniakea]

Is the oscillator external to the chip and what type, discrete crystal, TTL can, etc. ?

I am not familar with the CY8C26233, but most micro-controllers have the ability to read out the code if the security bit is not set. What is the case with this part?

The programmer for this chip can be bought for about 50.00, the problem is that if the security fuse has been "popped" we cannot read the entire JEDEC file directly from the chip. After reading the specs on the chip its applications are very broad with TTL logic, Oscillators for both on board and off board clocking, and many other built in functions, however, I did not see any notes about voltage regulation or protection thereof. It also has "watchdog" which will shut the chip down if voltage drops below the registers settings or if a boot sequence is violated. Stabilization on the chip is about 1 second before it begins its startup sequence yet if that parameter is violated did the programmer leave the option to retry the sequence or is it stuck in an endless loop? Is the chip SMT or Through Hole technology? If thru hole and there a someone on the forum with a good enough contact at Autometer and we are able to obtain the JEDEC files for each gauge. Many questions still remain but if we all work on this together this may be a problem we can solve on our own with little effort.

 

[HHGT]

I personally think it’s a voltage spike killing the gauges

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[laniakea]

Couldn't agree with you more.

I too agree the voltage spikes are killing the gauges. Perhaps it would be as simple as putting a zener or avalanche diode in parallel with each gauge to clamp the voltage?

 

[viva gt]

so, how many with gauge failures had a GCR (Global Concern Report) through the OASIS information system filled out at a ford dealer.
It does not matter on mileage or that warranty is over.
remember how ford see this "Bottom line is : NO GCR’s= NO Problems, LOTS of GCR’s=Problem"
documentation documentation documentation
this would equal, squeaky wheel gets the grease

 

[viva gt]

in casual conversation with my ford friend a question came up regarding cars that had gauge failures. how many failures with subwoofers and without?

(his words)
" I personally think it’s a voltage spike killing the gauges, EMP from the starter or radio amplifier."

it would be interesting to see answers from those with failures

 

[cobra498]

The programmer for this chip can be bought for about 50.00, the problem is that if the security fuse has been "popped" we cannot read the entire JEDEC file directly from the chip. After reading the specs on the chip its applications are very broad with TTL logic, Oscillators for both on board and off board clocking, and many other built in functions, however, I did not see any notes about voltage regulation or protection thereof. It also has "watchdog" which will shut the chip down if voltage drops below the registers settings or if a boot sequence is violated. Stabilization on the chip is about 1 second before it begins its startup sequence yet if that parameter is violated did the programmer leave the option to retry the sequence or is it stuck in an endless loop? Is the chip SMT or Through Hole technology? If thru hole and there a someone on the forum with a good enough contact at Autometer and we are able to obtain the JEDEC files for each gauge. Many questions still remain but if we all work on this together this may be a problem we can solve on our own with little effort.

It is SMT no evidence of a crystal or resonator looks like it might be R/C but am not sure, it appears as though the program is stopped and not stepping, could be that a spike killed the on board oscillator. It has a number of test points that showed no activity on my scope. It could be compared to a good gauge but to do that you end up destroying the bezel to get at the circuit board. As I stated earlier the Autometer design engineer would know exactly what was not functioning with his test equipment he might not know why but if I spike killed it there are lots of ways to protect the circuit on the gauge board.

 

[cobra498]

so, how many with gauge failures had a GCR (Global Concern Report) through the OASIS information system filled out at a ford dealer.
It does not matter on mileage or that warranty is over.
remember how ford see this "Bottom line is : NO GCR’s= NO Problems, LOTS of GCR’s=Problem"
documentation documentation documentation
this would equal, squeaky wheel gets the grease

I am sure Ford Motor knows how many gauges have been sold through the dealer network, that would give them a very good idea of failure rates especially if they are lumped together. Probably not too many are crash damage, if they count fuel, boost and temp separately it might look very different than if taken as a group. The warranty system would not know of a common gauge circuit board design so the failure rate would appear far lower than it actually is.

 

[Nardo GT]

Per DBK:
"I took the gauges, physically put them in the hands of the Ford GT Program Manager, and they were subsequently sent to Autometer for diagnosis. Wish I had more. From the way it sounds, there must be thousands of them. I've only managed to get ahold of what, 3?"

You could have 2 more for diagnosis if FoMoCo would send me 2 new ones. I have 4 GTs. To dispute the "battery" issue ...the only one I have had failure on is the daily driver. Never, ever on a charger. Battery replaced under warranty with a factory OEM a year ago...before failures. The gas guage is normal to show empty after refilling until you recycle the key. Not worried about that. I think the battery can make the guages do weird things.....possibly fail...but mine is driven regularly and had 2 separate failed guages within 6mos. They are not replaced. I still drive it. Waiting on Ford to do the right thing. Simply just not acceptable on a $150K plus car. As I have said before....I sell 100k miles Focus's and other Ford vehicles .....never had a failed guage on any of them. This is BS.

 

[hollywoodstunts]

:frown

Per DBK:
"I took the gauges, physically put them in the hands of the Ford GT Program Manager, and they were subsequently sent to Autometer for diagnosis. Wish I had more. From the way it sounds, there must be thousands of them. I've only managed to get ahold of what, 3?" :frown

You could have 2 more for diagnosis if FoMoCo would send me 2 new ones. I have 4 GTs. To dispute the "battery" issue ...the only one I have had failure on is the daily driver. Never, ever on a charger. Battery replaced under warranty with a factory OEM a year ago...before failures. The gas guage is normal to show empty after refilling until you recycle the key. Not worried about that. I think the battery can make the guages do weird things.....possibly fail...but mine is driven regularly and had 2 separate failed guages within 6mos. They are not replaced. I still drive it. Waiting on Ford to do the right thing. Simply just not acceptable on a $150K plus car. As I have said before....I sell 100k miles Focus's and other Ford vehicles .....never had a failed guage on any of them. This is BS.

+100 :bs

 

[BlackICE]

Here is the datasheet for the part used in the gauges.

http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/1/03rygiitzwcladyj9w3hw6gs477y.pdf

 

[Waldo]

I think the battery can make the guages do weird things.....possibly fail...

A few months ago, my tachometer started acting up- sluggish response, hanging up as the engine RPM dropped to idle, etc. I thought the tachometer was on her last legs and was all but resigned to an eventual replacement of the gauge. As a first step, I replaced the stock, almost 6-year old OEM battery, and haven't had a problem since.

My GT is driven about 2,000 miles a year and is always on a Battery Tender.

 

[GT35065]

Kayvan posted:

"They gave us 7 huge analog gauges!!

Its like a 747 cockpit in there

They didn't wimp out like F430, gallardo, murci, R8, etc with their bloated uni- binnacle, 1-2 gas, temp guages.

Love the gauges."

I love the look of the guages too, but we'll see how much you like them when you have to start throwing new ones in at $500-1000 a pop. Hope it doesn't happen to you, but plenty of us have had a problem.

 

[cobra498]

Gauge Failure

Here is the datasheet for the part used in the gauges.

http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/1/03rygiitzwcladyj9w3hw6gs477y.pdf

Another possibility is that a voltage spike on an input line might change the non-volatile memory within the microprocessor. I have a microprocessor based alarm system for my trailer that calls me via cell phone if the trailer is entered when the system is armed. I was testing it a few days ago and it stopped working, it seems that prior to powering it up one of the input lines went high and it erased part of the on board memory. The gauge micro might be susceptible to a similar condition during start up. I have noticed that during start up my supply voltage goes low enough to drop out a cigar lighter powered video camera on my GT. It certainly is conceivable that some unknown sequence of events could have the same effect on the gauge microprocessor.

 

[Kayvan]

I won't replace em

"Everything has it's disadvantages "

-wiseman

I have learned to accept above statement in life.

If this is the price; for a gorgeous cockpit, msrp asking price @ +5yrs, and bullet-proof drivetrain.. I'll accept it.
The f430/gallrado folks wish they could jack up their dash and slide in a car not worth -50% less that they paid v. $500/guage

 

[hollywoodstunts]

The reason the car is holding it's value is one if the reasons I bought the car. If they made a 2011, 750HP GT2 don't think for a second any of our cars would be anywhere near MSRP.
But value retention is no justification for a manufacturers defect.
Gauges run $500 to $1500 a pop. As far as I'm concerned, everyone has a ticking time-bomb in their dash.
The question is when, not if.
Just give us a solution. Not free gauges. Not free labor. Simply a solution so We can stop replacing faulty gauges with faulty gauges, or putting good gauges downlne from something causing failures.

 

[BlackICE]

I am hoping that my luck holds out, so far no failures. From reading the 1000s of post on the topic my plan is:

1. Never let the battery become discharged. Alway keep at 12.7v or above, by using a battery tender or equivalent at all times if the car isn't used more than 3 days. Periodically test the battery by disconnecting the charger for 3 days while the car sits idle, if the voltage is not over 12.6v time for a new battery.

2. Before stating the engine turn the key on and let the system initialize before cranking the car, waiting about 3 seconds.

3. Never push or jump start the car unless it is an emergency.

If I do get a gauge failure after following these procedures I will add transient voltage spike protection to the 2 power leads going the the gauge control module before replacing the gauge.

 

[Lorenzo]

Rock solid advice. +1

 

[hollywoodstunts]

Rock solid advice if you are able to ignore the white elephant in the room. What vehicle have you ever had to resort to said measures to preserve gauges? Plugging in a charger is one thing. Going through a pre-flight check list before starting a car seems in and of itself to signify that there's problem.
Again, of the over 100 vehicles I've owned, both race and street, this is the 1st with a gauge failure. I've already replaced the stock battery with the Sears unit based on a hypothesis.
What's next? Silent medatation prior to starting while waiting three seconds for the system to initialize with a lightning rod in one hand and a battery tender in the other?:willy

 

[BlackICE]

I :agree: there is a problem with the gauges, the failure rate is much too high. That said, given the realities of the situation, I go through a pre-fight test before starting as a feel good gesture, rather than pay $1000 for a gauge that might fail again or hope that Ford updates the design for an out of production car, off of warranty and 5 years old.

If you want gauges that don't fail sell your FGT and buy a F150, Taurus, Camry, Prius, Mustang, or any high volume production car. Any of those cars will do better. Just don't get a BMW according to Sam.

High production numbers = reliability
Low production numbers = quirks at best and lower reliability in most cases