Shadowman's AP/Stillen Brake Evaluation
- Thread starter Shadowman
- Start date
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
Close that that which I shared
The greatest benefit IMO with the numbers that I shared is they were collected at the same time and on the same scale as such you/all have a gross basis to compare systems.
I did not intened on it being the end all of data
All the best
Shadowman
Hello Shadowman, really, seriously, I did not reply with the FRPP catalog stats to dispute your fact findings. I am really sorry. I did not post to offend. Thank you very much for your posts. Your pictures are amazing, I cannot wait to send my GT to you. My to do list ... "wish list" grows everyday.
HeritageBruce
GT Owner
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
No worries my friend; more than anything I was simply making clear that I did not share precise weights but rather quick and easy gross weights.
You however presented empirical data which was wonderful now if the same for the options is presented to then the entire will be told.
You did good and FYI my skin is thick as such I never touch any offense to that which you shared; if anything I appreciated it.
Takes care
Shadowman
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
FYI the rear on Ed's gal are AP two piece 15" rotors as a component of the system as recieved from Stillen.
Takes care
Shadowman
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
*** Final Update from Shadowman ***
I completed the bleeding of her brakes with Super Blue Racing fluid and then set her back on her shoes and .... uuugh sadly she would not roll properly.
I lifted her back up and evaluated the situation and low and behold when I installed her shoes and lowered the gal the rotor moved and resulted in the e-brake caliper’s outer pad bound itself against the rotor as such I had to remove the rear brake system and then chamfer two bosses on each of the OEM rear uprights. Now this happened because the new AP rotors do not use independent rotor securing hardware as is the case with the OEM rotors as such they were not fully in position until I installed her shoes and torque them in position. In retrospect I should have secured the rotor with open ended lug nut prior to installing her shoes however it remained my belief that this system had already been through a successful R&D process and that the kit was truly ready for primetime. Kyle and I discussed this and he shared that this system has in fact been sold to others in Europe and he never received feedback presenting concerns; it remains his feeling that the other folks that received the system simply accepted the fact that it required a bit of twisting and tweaking here and there; NBD.
In any case it is somewhat Ironic the need to chamfer the areas on the uprights is clearly stated as one of the steps within installation white pages however it was my understanding after chatting with Kyle which incidentally was before I began the processes that this had been remedied through the use of a redesigned e-brake relocation bracket; in fact I made mention of this in an earlier post.
Here are the steps that I ultimately took and is my suggested course of action.
Once I disassembled the rear AP brake system to create the needed access to chamfer the uprights without causing secondary damage I also reset the e-brake caliper; meaning I screwed the pistons back into the caliper’s bore. On the e-brake this is a process that requires that you turn the piston clockwise; do “NOT” attempt to simply compress the piston as is the case on the typical brake caliper or you will damage the caliper. Once I did this I was able to loosely fit the e-brake caliper into position and verify that the clearance created during the chamfering process was sufficient not only for the e-brake caliper based on the present condition of the pads but also sufficient for a new set of pads. Then I methodically reassembled the rear AP brake system; verified that everything operated to my satisfaction. Once this was completed I then had to reset the –e-brake. The process to do this requires that you loosen the cable at the e-brake handle; remove the trim and roll back the rubber boot and then loosen the e-brake cable nut until no threads are exposed. Then while turning the rear wheels move the e-brake handle through it full range of motion 10-12 times during which the e-brake caliper pistons will be migrated back into position. When this process has been completed you can make the final adjustment of the e-brake system by turning the nut on the e-brake cable back down after which you need to put the rubber boot back into position, reinstall the e-brake trim and you are then good to go.
So as a project recap;
As I have discussed with Kyle IMO the system was shipped lacking in comprehensive instructions, lacking the required hardware, and there was improperly machined hardware. None of these issues were scope and magnitude and frankly because this was presented as an evaluation program I would also say that these issues were not totally unexpected and now as the direct result of the process as just completed I am confident that those about to integrate the system will have a better go at it and even more so those folks that elect to integrate the system independent of the evaluation program will receive a complete system able to be retro-fit when compared to the processes that were endured.
In closing; it is not my desire to share personal feelings about the system and whether I feel that it is necessary because personal tweaks are and always will be just that; personal tweaks and truly subjective in nature but rather I have done my best to present the mechanical processes involved with the integrating of the system however I will say that once the processes were completed and the system IMO fully integrated and on line it looks very nice and mechanically all systems operate perfectly; now it is time for Ed to run her through her paces and share how he feels about this brake system when compared to the OEM Brembo system removed.
Takes care
Shadowman
I completed the bleeding of her brakes with Super Blue Racing fluid and then set her back on her shoes and .... uuugh sadly she would not roll properly.
I lifted her back up and evaluated the situation and low and behold when I installed her shoes and lowered the gal the rotor moved and resulted in the e-brake caliper’s outer pad bound itself against the rotor as such I had to remove the rear brake system and then chamfer two bosses on each of the OEM rear uprights. Now this happened because the new AP rotors do not use independent rotor securing hardware as is the case with the OEM rotors as such they were not fully in position until I installed her shoes and torque them in position. In retrospect I should have secured the rotor with open ended lug nut prior to installing her shoes however it remained my belief that this system had already been through a successful R&D process and that the kit was truly ready for primetime. Kyle and I discussed this and he shared that this system has in fact been sold to others in Europe and he never received feedback presenting concerns; it remains his feeling that the other folks that received the system simply accepted the fact that it required a bit of twisting and tweaking here and there; NBD.
In any case it is somewhat Ironic the need to chamfer the areas on the uprights is clearly stated as one of the steps within installation white pages however it was my understanding after chatting with Kyle which incidentally was before I began the processes that this had been remedied through the use of a redesigned e-brake relocation bracket; in fact I made mention of this in an earlier post.
Here are the steps that I ultimately took and is my suggested course of action.
Once I disassembled the rear AP brake system to create the needed access to chamfer the uprights without causing secondary damage I also reset the e-brake caliper; meaning I screwed the pistons back into the caliper’s bore. On the e-brake this is a process that requires that you turn the piston clockwise; do “NOT” attempt to simply compress the piston as is the case on the typical brake caliper or you will damage the caliper. Once I did this I was able to loosely fit the e-brake caliper into position and verify that the clearance created during the chamfering process was sufficient not only for the e-brake caliper based on the present condition of the pads but also sufficient for a new set of pads. Then I methodically reassembled the rear AP brake system; verified that everything operated to my satisfaction. Once this was completed I then had to reset the –e-brake. The process to do this requires that you loosen the cable at the e-brake handle; remove the trim and roll back the rubber boot and then loosen the e-brake cable nut until no threads are exposed. Then while turning the rear wheels move the e-brake handle through it full range of motion 10-12 times during which the e-brake caliper pistons will be migrated back into position. When this process has been completed you can make the final adjustment of the e-brake system by turning the nut on the e-brake cable back down after which you need to put the rubber boot back into position, reinstall the e-brake trim and you are then good to go.
So as a project recap;
As I have discussed with Kyle IMO the system was shipped lacking in comprehensive instructions, lacking the required hardware, and there was improperly machined hardware. None of these issues were scope and magnitude and frankly because this was presented as an evaluation program I would also say that these issues were not totally unexpected and now as the direct result of the process as just completed I am confident that those about to integrate the system will have a better go at it and even more so those folks that elect to integrate the system independent of the evaluation program will receive a complete system able to be retro-fit when compared to the processes that were endured.
In closing; it is not my desire to share personal feelings about the system and whether I feel that it is necessary because personal tweaks are and always will be just that; personal tweaks and truly subjective in nature but rather I have done my best to present the mechanical processes involved with the integrating of the system however I will say that once the processes were completed and the system IMO fully integrated and on line it looks very nice and mechanically all systems operate perfectly; now it is time for Ed to run her through her paces and share how he feels about this brake system when compared to the OEM Brembo system removed.
Takes care
Shadowman
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STORMCAT
GT
Bill,
Thanks again for your informative write up. You have made it much easier for those who will perform this procedure. Since I have not started yet I'm wondering if there is a comparable ARP fastener I could get so I don't need to cut the front Caliper bolts? Did you happen to measure your final cut length? It looks like you took off about 3/8" ? Thanks again. B
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
You are welcome and you will do just fine
As for an alternate bolt; Kyle shared that they researched it and none were available which resulted in the cutting of OEM bolts. I cut and faced them rather than grinding them so as not to introduce excessive heat to the bolts thus risking the changing of the hardness of the bolts.
As for the net length; sadly I did not measure them however 5/16" - 3/8" was the amount that I removed.
In closing; Kyle was “Johnny on the Spot”, supportive, understanding, and willing to assist throughout the project. There is no doubt that his and the Team at Stillen’s goal is to present only the best. We do significant business together and they have always demonstrated a “We Care” attitude which has always been supported by their actions.
Takes care
Shadowman
Thank you for the write up Bill!
I confirmed first thing this morning that the rear brackets that we have on the shelves have all been modified and new hardware for the front brackets are on order. As soon as they come in the necessary modifications will be made and they will be included in the kits from here on out.
I look forward to your and Ed's review of the performance improvements with this brake upgrade!
I confirmed first thing this morning that the rear brackets that we have on the shelves have all been modified and new hardware for the front brackets are on order. As soon as they come in the necessary modifications will be made and they will be included in the kits from here on out.
I look forward to your and Ed's review of the performance improvements with this brake upgrade!
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
It remains our pleasure; thank you for including Ed in the evaluation program and for all of your personal support.
Shadowman
Ed's Gal with new brakes
Thanks for offering a great deal on the brake kit for me & others Kyle! I love my AP/Stillen clutch & Ricardo/Stillen gear set.
I look forward to enjoying the brakes on the road & track. I'll be driving this weekend on the road & I am looking for a good June track event that will work with my schedule. I am signed up for an open track at Sears Point on July 4.
Ed
PS I'll be by on Friday to pick her up Shadowman! I'm glad I only live 50 miles away from you!
Thanks for offering a great deal on the brake kit for me & others Kyle! I love my AP/Stillen clutch & Ricardo/Stillen gear set.
I look forward to enjoying the brakes on the road & track. I'll be driving this weekend on the road & I am looking for a good June track event that will work with my schedule. I am signed up for an open track at Sears Point on July 4.
Ed
PS I'll be by on Friday to pick her up Shadowman! I'm glad I only live 50 miles away from you!
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
With your new AP brake system and the new cool "switchblade" key from Andrew cut and programmed all she needs now is a light dusting off and then she is ready to go play
See you soon
Takes care
Shadowman
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436