Ricardo Transaxle problem with 3rd to 4th change - intermittent

[jferraro]

I have a Ricardo transaxle that's running very well but I just have one intermittent issue. I must advise that this transmission is in a GT40 not Ford GT. It uses a short throw shifter and the cables are routed without harsh bends. I hope its OK to post a Ricardo trans question here. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I do not know what to do.

The installation is below.

The gearshift can be seen below:

The car was fitted with a secondhand transaxle that was reported to be good from a reliable source in the USA. I live in Australia.

So the issue is when changing from 3rd to 4th I sometimes cannot engage 4th. It feels like a hard block at the selector/shifter. I can wiggle the shifter while trying to engage 4th but it will not go in. There is no synchro whine or anything. I can go down the gears and up and still get blocked. The only way to engage 4th when this happens is to engage 5th and then go back to forth. Going to 6th does not help. After getting 4th engaged the box works for a variable time (can be for many 3rd to 4th shifts) and then baulks at 4th again for no apparent reason.

I have also observed this even with the car at standstill not running. Again exactly the same symptom and engaging 5th is the only way to get 4th. The only other thing I have noticed is an occasional small gear dog ring crunch from 2nd to 3rd as if I beat the synchro as the shift has an intermittent uncharacteristically low to no synchro resistance. I do not know if this is related. As the main issue 3rd to 4th issue is a simple non cross-gate change this is most surprising.

1) I cannot see any selector anomalies or adjustment issues with the ford short shifter or cables. Can this be some sort of cable/shifter adjustment issue? If so any ideas?
2) Is it worth pulling the selector housing assembly off the side of the transmission and looking for something on the selector assembly? With an intermittent issue this could be hard. I don’t even know if it is possible to peek in that part of the box without major disassembly.
3) Could it be an internal gear stack issue where a stack is moving in a way it’s not designed to and fouling the change?
4) Could it be oiling? I am using the OE coolant but have fitted an external cooler.

I have no people with Ricardo experience in Australia so I really have limited options to investigate this. Pulling out the whole engine and trans and having a novice open the box looking for clues could lead to disaster!

Any help would be appreciated. If you know any people that may have seen this before I would appreciate it.

For those interested the car is shown below:

Thanks in advance.

 

[ultrasportracing]

Hi Im in Perth have a little experience with the Ricardo. The first thing to do when the 3/4th shift blocks is to disconnect the shifter and see if you can engage the gear by using shift arm from the G/box, if you still cant select 4th then something is amiss inside, could be a myriad of things, Although as it engages sometimes seems to me that it would be a minor problem .Cheers Looks like a very nice job you have done.

 

[nota4re]

Wow, what a beautiful build! GREAT looking car and fantastic attention to detail. I have a few observations/suggestion in the spirit of trying to help you. Honestly, when I read your entire description I am unfortunately thinking the odds are that it is more likely an internal issue but it is definitely worth trying to eliminate anything external as being the culprit.

Most disturbing is that you seem to be able to replicate the same problem with the engine not running and the car at a standstill. With this in mind - you can easily eliminate the shifter cables by temporarily disconnecting them and try shifting the car directly at the transaxle. I fear you will have the same issue - but worth a try.

I don't think the next observations are a cause of the problem - just offered in perspective. From the (gorgeous!) picture, it is difficult to tell the routing of the upper cable of the shift linkage. For your reference, in the Ford GT, the cables are routed beneath the intake manifold between the head. It does look like maybe you have the same opportunity and if you're not 100% happy with the current routing, you may be able to try this more direct path to the shifter. Also observing that you have what appears to be a thermostat on your transaxle cooler. Conceptually this is a good idea but in practice we didn't find a lot of difference in warm-up times with a thermostat. (The transaxle likes to run plenty warm!) As I said, I fear the problem is internal (because static testing exhibits the same symptoms) but another now very remote possibility is the thermostat somehow disrupting lubricant flow. Again, easy enough for you to try as you can bypass the entire cooler/thermostat by simply bridging the in and out ports at the transaxle fittings. (This is how all Ford GTs were delivered.)

With the shifter cables all in place, have a helper shift the car between 3rd and 4th using the shifter while you observe the linkage at the transaxle. You need to make sure that the lever on the transaxle is at its maximum throw BEFORE the shifter is at its maximum. With your attention to detail, I'd be pretty certain you already looked at this.

Finally, when you say OE coolant, I'm assuming you mean lubricant and that you are using Motorcraft 75w90 TRANSAXLE fluid.

Best of luck to you and I LOVE your car!

 

[nota4re]

that was reported to be good from a reliable source in the USA

Was going to PM you this question but couldn't. Can you share who this reliable source was?

 

[MarkH]

I can only imagine who the reliable source is... I personally have been buying as much of the good/bad transmissions I can get my hands on but you have to be careful....

 

[nota4re]

I can only imagine who the reliable source is...

Yeah, I think we had the same thought...... It's a shame....

 

[BlackICE]

Is the source in TX near a lagoon?

 

[jferraro]

Thanks guys for the suggestion and the kind comments on the car. I was worried I would be thrown to the wolves with it not being a Ford GT! Yes by coolant I meant fluid! I did import a lot of the OE motorcraft oil specified by Ford.

I will try the disconnection of the cables and attempt to engage 4th when it is blocked. That is a great idea to take the shifter/cables out of the equation. The cable routing for what its worth is very smooth. I have the Ford workshop manuals and can see how the cables were routed over the engine and took care not to make it worse.

Also I like the idea to remove the cooler from the equation as well. I will just join the two hoses to form a loop and see what happens. The Mocal thermostat is not set to open until 80 Deg C (176F). It may be restrictive we will see. I am only seeing about 70 deg C (158F) on the trans temp gauge on the highway so its not getting that hot at all. I do intend to track the car which is why I run a cooler.

The transaxle was purchased from RCR in Detroit about 8 years ago when I ordered the chassis so its been sitting for some time. It had oil in it and was stored in a dry place. I have put fresh oil in. The drain plug was clean.

If I cannot find an external reason for the problem and its internal I may be in a world of hurt just finding someone to work on it. I was hoping someone had seen this issue before.

By the way my car has only been on the road for 4 weeks. I must say it screams, if I can get 4th issue fixed I will be mega happy.

 

[NorthwoodGT]

the car is absolutely gorgeous! nice job. here's my 2 cents. first off, I know the guy that was re-building the Ricardos for Fran at RCR because I had purchased several myself. I'm going to go out on the limb and say it's probably not an issue with the re-build just because I had extremely good luck with all the ones I got from the same guy.
secondly, here is another thing but no sure if this helps. looking at your shifter, it's hard to see and tell what's going on because you guys over there have this obsession with driving from the other side of the car (lol) so not sure about the cable routing. this I can tell you- the cable with the yellow end on it for the 05-06 GTs installs as the actual shifting fore and aft cable. the cable without the yellow wrap end is called the cross gate cable which shifts the transaxle in the gear stack required. does it really make a difference which one is which? not sure. I've never tried switching them around but might be something to look at. possible the only difference in the cables is length. check it out. jmo

p.s. don't ever worry about asking a question 05/06 GT or not. everyone here is usually ready to help anyone that asks for help. that's what this is all about!

 

[jferraro]

Thanks for the comments NorthwoodGT. Funny about the shifter on the wrong side:wink

The cables are custom made for my car. As can be seen below the routing is different but very smooth.

http://www.gt40supercharged.com/gt40_images/GT40-Engine-Bay-1.jpg

The cables are even smooth up to the OE Ford GT rear cable mount.

http://www.gt40supercharged.com/gt40_images/GT40-Wiring-8.jpg

The shifter is OE short, the cables enter well on this too.

http://www.gt40supercharged.com/gt40_images/GT40-dash-electrical-3.jpg

Thanks all for the help so far. Greatly appreciated.

 

[nota4re]

All good suggestions, Scott. Like you, I think the only difference in the cables is length - but best to eliminate ALL possible external adjustments before having to lift that transaxle back out of there! I had thought about a mis-adjusted cross-gate cable - such as not being able to achieve or maintain the right height, but the op mentioned that he can select 5th at will. Further, we know that there's no gate action inherent in the shifter mechanism - it's all internal to the transaxle. Having thought about it for awhile now, I think I'm with the OP that it may very well be with that crass-gate mechanism. I think that statically shifting the car without the cables attached will hopefully be a little more revealing. I'm sorry I don't know more about what is occurring mechanically INSIDE the transaxle to be able to offer any helpful advice.

 

[Specracer]

WHAT A CAR!!!! Hope the fix is simple.

 

[NorthwoodGT]

jferraro: what engine is that?? kinda looks like a Coyote with stack injection? dry sump as well?

 

[sr71]

That's about the prettiest engine bay I have seen. Nice work, nice choices. Please keep us informed on the transaxle progress.

 

[jferraro]

Really guys I appreciate the support.

Yes its a Coyote Aluminator with stage 3 Comp cams, billet oil pump and a very nice 8-stack system made out of billet. The induction sound is pretty crazy. On overlap you can hear valves slamming shut. I need to do another dyno tune because as the cams come in its like a turbo car! I do like the extractors, worked with Burns Stainless in the USA for all the bends, merge and "mufflers". I fabricated the extractors myself which took about 6 weeks, pretty tight fit! Engine has a Moroso wet pan, I did not have enough room to run dry sump, maybe later now I can see what I have to work with.

I drove the car yesterday and when I lost the ability to engage 4th so I skipped 5th so its home and locked out of fourth. I will look at engaging 4th at the selectors on the weekend as I need a second person to help. My wife and 7 year old are not that keen!

As soon as I get a decent video of it running I will post a youtube link. Its a riot:biggrin

 

[BIGFOOT]

What does it weigh? Nice car.

 

[jferraro]

Well unfortunately disconnecting the cooler did nothing and trying to manually change at the selectors did not help either. Its in the box. Crap

I guess my only option is find someone in Australia to help disassemble the box and look for a reason for this 4th gear issue or send the whole transmission back to the states. Any advice would be appreciated.

Bigfoot, sorry I have not corner weighed it yet so no idea.

 

[nota4re]

I guess my only option is find someone in Australia to help disassemble the box and look for a reason for this 4th gear issue or send the whole transmission back to the states. Any advice would be appreciated.

Sure sorry to hear that an internal problem has been confirmed although it was our suspicion from your initial description of symptoms. Oh well, $%it Happens.

My recommendation would be to consider the purchase of a new-from-Ford transaxle to place in your stellar build. With Ford's new parts purchasing policy (must show a valid Ford GT registration form), this may not even be easy. The issue with disassembly either here or in Australia is the lack of parts. When Ford spec'd the Ricardo and ordered enough units for production and spares, they explicitly declined to order/fund the manufacturing of any spare internal parts. As a result - there aren't any! This is why serious guys lake Mark are trying to get their hands on as many transaxles as possible - in order to have a source for internal parts. In summary, bite the bullet and buy new. There's a market for your existing unit which can help offset the cost of the new one.

 

[MarkH]

If you care to ship the tranny to Texas , I would believe we could have it fixed. The problem is the shipping cost and then the repair build which I expect would be half the cost of a new one or in the vicinity. If anything we can do glad to help.

Mark
M2K Motorsports LLC

 

[jferraro]

Fixed!!!!

While a few people gave me some options but they all involved getting the box out and pulling it down. So before I took this route I decided to have a look myself. Thinking about the issue I thought it would be best to look at the selector assembly as the issue could be there. Inspection of all the detents showed no issues. So off with the selector housing on the side of the transaxle. I could not see any issues with the selector assembly. So a peek into the box :eek
And what did I find, the 3/4 selector bush had fallen out of the selector!!!!! Hoorah!!!! :thumbsup

You can see the bush highlighted in yellow below and the original image after that.

I have also attached a link to a video of the problem:

[video=youtube;xoZ075ZPlDw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZ075ZPlDw[/video]

So this explained the symptoms perfectly as it jammed when the bush fell out as the bush then became a spacer and worked when it partially slid back in. Selecting 5th pushed the bush in a little and then selecting 4th was possible, I am so happy I found this.
To fix it I cleaned the bush and selector bore with brake clean while not getting it in the gearbox. I used Loctite® 620™ on the bush and tapped it securely back into the selector bore. It took a bit of tapping so its not a loose fit and should not come out again.
Thanks to all those I contacted that had ideas about the issue. None guessed this one but your support was appreciated. Now off to finishing other little things on the car.