Project TTSGT Dyno shakedown began tonight !!

[Jason Watt]

Meanwhile, perhaps some of the folks that are suggesting that Dustin donate a huffer might consider joining this forum as a supporting member??

Donating for charity was not my suggestion. If I believe that Whipple Int. could bennefit on the marketing side if they got involved with FastParts Network in building the ultimate Ford GT.
With the right strategy this car could get tons of exposure in related magazines all over the world, and I'm sure that would exceed the cost price of a blower for the Whipple company by far.

I don't really see what that has got to do with me being a paying member or not.

Go for it boys...

Thanks
Jason

 

[Shadowman]

** UPDATE **

I have a Whipple with AccuFab thottle body that will be heading their way shortly

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[Jason Watt]

I like the concept; in fact I have chatted with both Torrie and TonY G about their project.

In my world the combination makes sense and certainly can (as has been seen) produce some crazy numbers however at the end of the day I want to be able to pull into the local fuel station and top her off and go play. I have drums of race fuel in my facility however the idea of having to use it for day to day driving leaves me cold.

Now I have similar feelings when it comes to any tuning for a street gal that requires secondary injection systems such as methanol. I like to build and then tune based on the norm and then use secondary systems as a bit of a buffer for those truly extreme moments in time and not as a primary operating system.

Now having shared this I feel certain that what Torrie and TonY G are tweaking will become a viable alternate option for those looking for prodigious stump pulling torque and then still have enough air to push her into the stratosphere on pump gas however I also expect that some will consider that there is never too much and want to push her past these limits as such I suggest that you heed this warning; the novelty of replenishing your gal's tank with race fuel and or methanol will become old sooner or later.

There is no doubt that these gal's are able to create and withstand so much more power than they were presented with however remember the cost of admission into this arena is far more than the initial price of the conversion.

I like extreme setups and the gals presented with them; in fact I have several customers that only use their toys as the ultimate "E" ticket ride but then they are made very aware of the issues as mentioned above.

A big "Thumbs Up" Torrie and TonY G for working outside of the proverbial box again; I think that the mechanical attributes of having both a supercharger and a pair of hair dryers is simply too cool for words.


Shadowman
** UPDATE **

I have a Whipple with AccuFab thottle body that will be heading their way shortly

Takes care

Shadowman

Glad you came around :biggrin
The best of luck - can't wait to see those numbers...

 

[Shadowman]

Glad you came around :biggrin
The best of luck - can't wait to see those numbers...

LOL.....I shared that I like the concept alot and love extreme and yet I also have shared with both Torrie and TonY G that I want a system that is mechanically stunnning and still able to run oon the pump fuel......

Certainly during the testing process the "HUGE" numbers will be seen but in the end I will leave that system for another and to be used with their drums of "Race Fuel"

All the best

Shadowman

 

[Jason Watt]

LOL.....I shared that I like the concept alot and love extreme and yet I also have shared with both Torrie and TonY G that I want a system that is mechanically stunnning and still able to run oon the pump fuel......

Certainly during the testing process the "HUGE" numbers will be seen but in the end I will leave that system for another and to be used with their drums of "Race Fuel"

All the best

Shadowman

I'm with you on that one - But perhaps have a tune for both pump and race fuel in the SCT flasher.. :wink

 

[tmcphail]

I'm with you on that one - But perhaps have a tune for both pump and race fuel in the SCT flasher.. :wink

That is extremely easy to do !!!!!

 

[tmcphail]

** UPDATE **

I have a Whipple with AccuFab thottle body that will be heading their way shortly

Takes care

Shadowman

Uh oh :biggrin:biggrin:biggrin

 

[XRQTOR]

Wow, just wow.

What is the eaton pullied for and what sort of boost are you guys making the 9**rwhp at, is it taken before or after the cooler.

 

[tmcphail]

Wow, just wow.

What is the eaton pullied for and what sort of boost are you guys making the 9**rwhp at, is it taken before or after the cooler.

Stock blower pulley on the 2.3

 

[XRQTOR]

Stock blower pulley on the 2.3

What sort of boost does the 2.3 pulley make. Also what size turbo's are you guys running, i may have missed it but i cant remember seeing it.

I've just bought a new block and race ported heads, there still in AL p's shop so i'll have him finish it all off with all the good bits. I've ordered a new manifold aswell but i'm going to fit a larger custom cooler, the one there using is over 5" thick. I had originally planned on running the big whipple as i wanted 1ooorwhp but now im thinking a KB 2.8H with TT's and make that on pump fuel with a much much better looking head unit.

 

[tmcphail]

2.3L was in reference to the compressor size not the pulley diameter Both are stock. We are using 2 GT35R turbo's

 

[Dan Schoneck]

What sort of boost does the 2.3 pulley make. Also what size turbo's are you guys running, i may have missed it but i cant remember seeing it.

I've just bought a new block and race ported heads, there still in AL p's shop so i'll have him finish it all off with all the good bits. I've ordered a new manifold aswell but i'm going to fit a larger custom cooler, the one there using is over 5" thick. I had originally planned on running the big whipple as i wanted 1ooorwhp but now im thinking a KB 2.8H with TT's and make that on pump fuel with a much much better looking head unit.

The kenne bell and the turbos will break parts. U are going to probally see 60lbs of boost. Either you won't be able to turn the k.b up or you won't be able to turn the turbo's up. I Know the guys at hellionand have talked to them about this and the have had simular problems when they tried to turn the factory blower up on the 03-04 cobra the boost went through the moon. Don't forget here you are compounding power adders. So say your turbos make 19 lbs and the factory blower makes 9 which is 28. Now you can times that by about 1.2 and that is how much boost the motor is seeing. That is 33lbs boys. Regardless of what u do anything over 45-50lbs of boost
and u are going to lift the heads. If you try this on pump gas It will make the problem worse because of detonation. 1000 rwhp is the limit on these cars with these small Cubic inches and that is pushing it.

 

[tmcphail]

1000 rwhp is the limit on these cars with these small Cubic inches and that is pushing it.

That is not at all the case.

 

[Dan Schoneck]

That is not at all the case.

How long will they live and how long can u hold them wide open for?
I bet they can make more than a thou on the dyno but 331 cubic inch and 30+lbs of boost is pushing it to be driving it like u mean it on the street. Dyno queen yes, Well beaten street car or standing mile car would impress me to see it not burn up or detonate.
Maybe i am wrong but i have alot of data on small cu blower/turbo stuff that tells me otherwise.

I know of a couple of people that have made 1700, 1450 and 1300 rwhp on
E85 fuel which is 105 octane. But i will Tell u the car that made 1700 was tuned by Steve Petty of Proline Race engine and we talk in great legnth about being able to try and race that down a track and he said it probally wouldn't work and neither the 1450 or 1300.

 

[nota4re]

Dan, I think perhaps you are well-intentioned but you should really do some more reading here about these engines. While I and probably others will agree that 30-50 lbs of boost will EASILY blow up a stock-internal engine, the discussion here is about a reliable 1,000HP car. We have many examples of attaining the 1,000 HP at 19-22lbs of boost wth these engines. With correct timing and a/f ratios as well as good fuel, a 1,000 HP is realistic and achieveable with "modest" boost levels.

More importantly, there's a savy, mature audience here and the focus has been more on "area under the curve". What Torrie has achieved in this regard is really quite remarkable and has captured he interest on many. The SC is utilized to get low-rpm boost (and bump up the lower side of the curve) while the turbo spool up to manage the upper half.

Keep it comin' Torrie!

 

[rubbersidedown]

the "stacked" induction is a great concept, but it was tried 40-50 years ago and was in production engines and it was dumped because IT DIDN'T work (detroit diesel, twin/ single turbo with Jimmy blowers). It's not as efficient as a bi-turbo (sequential) or a straight up twin set-up. It will create higher BOOST levels in the intake, which doesn't necessarily mean HP. Boost just means a whole bunch of cylinder pressure and heat, both which KILL engines. Take the impellers outta the blower and see what happens. IATs would almost HAVE to be in the toilet at 40 PSI intake pressure (actual IATs and boost in manifold, depending on where the sensor is mounted, it may/ may not be a logged PID) You can get anything to make big power on the dyno, but put it on a road course in 5th and you'll have an express ticket to kaboomland, especially on pump gas. And the "stacked" induction WILL see a higher pressure ratio after the supercharger than it does previous to it (it is generally a 1.2-1.5 pressure ratio increase). 1000 to the tire is ALOT on any pump gas, you are approaching 4HP per cu in flywheel- name a production engine that will HOLD UP to that... These are great engines but they were built by laborers in Detroit, not the Lord in heaven. I commend anyone who tries anything different- that is how advances are made!!!

 

[Dan Schoneck]

Dan, I think perhaps you are well-intentioned but you should really do some more reading here about these engines. While I and probably others will agree that 30-50 lbs of boost will EASILY blow up a stock-internal engine, the discussion here is about a reliable 1,000HP car. We have many examples of attaining the 1,000 HP at 19-22lbs of boost wth these engines. With correct timing and a/f ratios as well as good fuel, a 1,000 HP is realistic and achieveable with "modest" boost levels.

More importantly, there's a savy, mature audience here and the focus has been more on "area under the curve". What Torrie has achieved in this regard is really quite remarkable and has captured he interest on many. The SC is utilized to get low-rpm boost (and bump up the lower side of the curve) while the turbo spool up to manage the upper half.

Keep it comin' Torrie!

First i know more about the internal of the engine than u think. I also know that u can take a o3 cobra and do a built bottom emd and make the same power to the ground with twin turbos(281 cubic inch). Hellion made 1188rwhp tts03 Cobra mustang. But on Race gas. I don't think anyone here has made over 800 to the tire with a blower yet? What i am saying is 1000 is realistic on pump gas 93, but regardless of the internals, you need to understand cylinder pressure in these things is a lot higher than u would see in like a BBChevy, because of the small cubes and bore. So therefore there is a limit with pump gas and i doesn't matter the good the internals are.

Also the stock blower just does not stop working after the turbos take over. What happens when u compound power adders is the boost Multiplies all the way through the power range. At one point the supercharger is also going to become ineffective or inneficiant in the systems. YES it will make gobs of torque and power down low, but it will not make the peak power that u could with only the twin turbos. So when u try and make like 25lbs with the turbos then the blower adds 10 and then it multiplies by 1.2 u are looking at 42lbs. Then at some point the supercharger is going to become inefective. We don't know where that point is because ther have only been a few people to try this. THE first being Hellion Turbo systems and the second with a gt being Torrie.
BTw 42lbs will probally make only 1300 to the tire.:thumbsup If u had twin 70mm it would make 1800 at 40lbs.
Torrie did u guys measure boost before the super charger and then after the supercharger?

 

[abolfaz]

For those using the Detroit Diesel for comparison remember those were two stroke motors!

 

[Jason Watt]

First i know more about the internal of the engine than u think. :thumbsup If u had twin 70mm it would make 1800 at 40lbs.

Dan,
It sounds like you know what you're talking about - but I don't think that any GT owner (even Torrie) wishes to have 1800HP and turbo lag from hell!!:frown
These are street cars with a 60MPH 1st gear manual transmissions and not drag racers with 3000RPM stall speed and trans lock.

My dream would be to have a TTS-setup with 900RWHP on pump gas - and I didn't t believe that was a biggie for for the GT engine...

 

[Dan Schoneck]

Dan,
It sounds like you know what you're talking about - but I don't think that any GT owner (even Torrie) wishes to have 1800HP and turbo lag from hell!!:frown
These are street cars with a 60MPH 1st gear manual transmissions and not drag racers with 3000RPM stall speed and trans lock.

My dream would be to have a TTS-setup with 900RWHP on pump gas - and I didn't t believe that was a biggie for for the GT engine...

Thanks and yes turbo lag would be a problem Hence the reasoning behind the turbo blower setup. These things will easily make 1000 rwhp with turbos or tts. Also one of these motors has already made 2000 hp on a engine dyno 2-76mm turbos, Fox Lake power products www.foxlakeracing.com ported heads 350 cfm intake 40lbs of boost. But it had custom sleeves and a filled block. Not street parts, but the gt,gt500 is very strong stuff.

Also don't be scared about trying to make a thou either. I just think that the ttsgt is going to be at its limits at a 1000rwp with both power adder. With 20-30lbs of boost and hot ambient air these things are going to see some hot inlet temps below the blower. That is where the pump gas is going to come to a end.

Its going to be very difficult to do it with a blower. It is going to take 25lbs with a blower to make a thou to the tire. They blower will probally have 100hp in parasetic loses. I have a twin procharged projected im doing on one of these and we will see what it makes.