Oil Analysis for GT


DanQ

GT Owner
Aug 18, 2005
336
Lake Zurich, IL
Has anyone taken an oil sample for analysis on their GT? I got a sample of virgin Ford GT Oil and a used sample from my car with 1000 miles. I can post results if you are interested. I might put it up on my web page if there is enough interest. We could get a few samples to chart wear metals vs. mileage...

I started doing this on my F250 diesel and it was interesting to learn that it wasn't "broken in" until it was at almost 20,000 miles. Lots of data on that engine.
 

fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,741
Belleville, IL
Dan please post. Thanks FJP
 

analogdesigner

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Nov 15, 2005
949
San Clemente, CA USA
Please post!

Yes! This is a good idea and I plan on doing it to all of my cars.

Jay
 

Tungsten

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 22, 2006
275
Atlanta
Oil Analysis

Dan,
Can you post who you used and where you got the bottle? I have always done this on large diesel engines in our boats, but never on a car.
Don
 

DanQ

GT Owner
Aug 18, 2005
336
Lake Zurich, IL
Here is my data from Oil Guard (http://www.oilguard.com/Other/OilAnalysisProgram.php). I buy 12 kits at a time to bring the cost per sample down to about $9.

Another popular service is Blackstone, but they are more expensive.

Virgin Motorcraft GT oil
Analysis By - OG
Aluminum 2
Chromium 0
Iron 0
Copper 3
Lead 1
Tin 3
Molybdenum 15
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 0
Silicon 2
Sodium 5
Calcium 0
Magnesium 0
Phosphorus 0
Zinc 0
Barium 0

Oil Viscosity
VISC100 19
SAE 50
TBN 8.3

Fuel % 0.0
Glycol % 0.1
Water % 0.0
Solids % 0.0
Soot % 0.6
Oxidation % 0.0
NOX % 0.0
Nitration 0.0

----------------------------------------------------

Motorcraft Oil
1000 miles on oil
1000 miles on engine

Analysis By - OG
Aluminum 4
Chromium 0
Iron 10
Copper 45
Lead 1
Tin 3
Molybdenum 25
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 14
Boron 0
Silicon 127
Sodium 21
Calcium 0
Magnesium 0
Phosphorus 0
Zinc 0
Barium 0

Oil Viscosity
VISC100 19
SAE 50
TBN 8.1

Fuel % 0.0
Glycol % 0.1
Water % 0.0
Solids % 0.0
Soot % 0.0
Oxidation % 1.5
NOX % 0.0
Nitration 0.0

I'll put some charts up on my website shortly. http://home.comcast.net/~dquicker1/index.html
 

fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,741
Belleville, IL
Dan are you SURE you didn't mix this up with a breast implant?
 

DanQ

GT Owner
Aug 18, 2005
336
Lake Zurich, IL
well it was warm... :biggrin
 

STORMCAT

GT
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
May 25, 2006
7,586
Ft. Lauderdale
How can you tell from the oil when an engine is broken in? I've read many debates about engines taking longer to break in using syth. oil. Some debate that not only to they take longer on Sythn oil vs non styhn. oil but it's not as good of a break in because the parts take to long to get polished up and seal to max efficiency.
 

DanQ

GT Owner
Aug 18, 2005
336
Lake Zurich, IL
As the engine breaks in you will see decreasing PPM of iron, copper and silicon. After it breaks in the numbers tend to stablize. Take a look at the Ford 6.0 data collected by fmtrvt of the dieselstop forum to look at the obvious curves.
http://members.aol.com/fmtrvt/OilStudy/

Another good source of oil testing info is 'Bob is the oil guy forum':
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/ubbthreads.php
 

analogdesigner

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Nov 15, 2005
949
San Clemente, CA USA
Stock air filter?

DanQ said:
Here is my data from Oil Guard (http://www.oilguard.com/Other/OilAnalysisProgram.php). I buy 12 kits at a time to bring the cost per sample down to about $9.

DanQ,

Are you using a stock air filter or a K & N?

Thanks,

Jay
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34
 

DanQ

GT Owner
Aug 18, 2005
336
Lake Zurich, IL
stock (factory) air and oil filters at this point.
 

analogdesigner

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Nov 15, 2005
949
San Clemente, CA USA
My first engine and transmission oil analysis

DanQ,

I just had my first engine and transmission oil analysis done. I will post the results ASAP. The silicon levels seem high, however this may be coming from the pistons. It also could be that the air filters are optimized for airflow and not filtering efficiency. Any thoughts?

Your spreadsheet on your website is nice as I planned on doing the same thing.

Jay
 
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richardhead

GT Owner
Sep 19, 2006
169
How can you tell from the oil when an engine is broken in? I've read many debates about engines taking longer to break in using syth. oil. Some debate that not only to they take longer on Sythn oil vs non styhn. oil but it's not as good of a break in because the parts take to long to get polished up and seal to max efficiency.

When Chevrolet/Lotus designed the first series of 32 valve LT5/ZR-1 engine piston/liner assemblies (1990-1992), the rings were designed to seat with normal oil in the engine. Even at that, the rings in those LT5/ZR-1 engines did not fully seat until about 15,000 miles. The factory oil fill at the time was Mobile 1 synthetic for the regular Corvettes and regular oil for the the ZR-1 cars. GM advised owners not to use synthetic oil in those ZR-1 model years until that mileage was reached. Ostensibly, earlier use of the synthetic oil might actually have prevented proper seating of the rings for a long long time. In 1993-1995, GM used the standard factory fill of Mobile 1 oil in both the standard and ZR-1 Corvettes. The LT5/ZR-1 piston ring material and design were changed in 1993 (along with a slight redesign of the piston itself) to allow seating of the rings using the synthetic oil right from the onset. The ZR-1 engine used Mahle factory assembled piston and liner assemblies. The units were computer/machine assembled to tolerances of .0001 of an inch in only two available sizes, which were matched in each engine assembly (Size A and B). The liners were forged aluminum Nikasil-coated with life expectancy exceeding 300,000 miles. The Nikasil coating used in the liners was a similar design used by Porsche and a number of exotics at the time. Those Corvette assemblies retail for over $500.00 each, and re-Nikasiling the liners typically runs in excess of $150.00 per cylinder liner. The Nikasil lining was very durable, and the rings were designed to wear in to the lining, not vice versa or in tandem. So, the bottom line is unless the ring material is designed to seat properly (and seal) with synthetic oil and the proper cylinder lining material, it could take a long time for the motor to "break in". Also, GM used forged aluminum liners because the LT5/ZR-1 engine was a wet sleeve motor, and disimilar metal issues could have arisen if cast iron was utilized as a liner material. I'm not sure what our GT engine cylinder liners are, and if the engine is classified as wet or dry sleeve. Perhaps someone familiar could provide more information.
 
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analogdesigner

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Nov 15, 2005
949
San Clemente, CA USA
When Chevrolet/Lotus designed the first series of 32 valve LT5/ZR-1 engine piston/liner assemblies (1990-1992), the rings were designed to seat with normal oil in the engine. Even at that, the rings in those LT5/ZR-1 engines did not fully seat until about 15,000 miles. The factory oil fill at the time was Mobile 1 synthetic for the regular Corvettes and regular oil for the the ZR-1 cars. GM advised owners not to use synthetic oil in those ZR-1 model years until that mileage was reached. Ostensibly, earlier use of the synthetic oil might actually have prevented proper seating of the rings for a long long time. In 1993-1995, GM used the standard factory fill of Mobile 1 oil in both the standard and ZR-1 Corvettes. The LT5/ZR-1 piston ring material and design were changed in 1993 (along with a slight redesign of the piston itself) to allow seating of the rings using the synthetic oil right from the onset. The ZR-1 engine used Mahle factory assembled piston and liner assemblies. The units were computer/machine assembled to tolerances of .0001 of an inch in only two available sizes, which were matched in each engine assembly (Size A and B). The liners were forged aluminum Nikasil-coated with life expectancy exceeding 300,000 miles. The Nikasil coating used in the liners was a similar design used by Porsche and a number of exotics at the time. Those Corvette assemblies retail for over $500.00 each, and re-Nikasiling the liners typically runs in excess of $150.00 per cylinder liner. The Nikasil lining was very durable, and the rings were designed to wear in to the lining, not vice versa or in tandem. So, the bottom line is unless the ring material is designed to seat properly (and seal) with synthetic oil and the proper cylinder lining material, it could take a long time for the motor to "break in". Also, GM used forged aluminum liners because the LT5/ZR-1 engine was a wet sleeve motor, and disimilar metal issues could have arisen if cast iron was utilized as a liner material. I'm not sure what our GT engine cylinder liners are, and if the engine is classified as wet or dry sleeve. Perhaps someone familiar could provide more information.
Richard,

Good info! I know that Nikasil lined cylinder walls are sometimes used in aircraft engines. Air-cooled aircraft engines really get the crap beat out of them, especially during a cold startup.

Jay
 
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fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,741
Belleville, IL
My 1998 XK8 has nikasil cylinders. Apparently there is a major problem as high sulphur fuels eat the lining. Thank God I only burned premium fuel. Major loss of compression, engine becomes totally worthless. Jaguar is no help. They stopped using the techonology.
 

analogdesigner

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Nov 15, 2005
949
San Clemente, CA USA
My 1998 XK8 has nikasil cylinders. Apparently there is a major problem as high sulphur fuels eat the lining. Thank God I only burned premium fuel. Major loss of compression, engine becomes totally worthless. Jaguar is no help. They stopped using the techonology.
Frank,

That is very interesting! There was an aviation report many years ago on rebuilding techiques for aircraft cylinders. They had mentioned that this Nikasil technology (at the time) was a wait and see type of thing. Aircraft fuel has different properties, however, I am not sure about the sulphur content. Aircraft engines must be rebuilt on a periodic time schedule, so this problem may not have time to show up. I just avoid anything made in the UK. I used to own a DeLorean which used parts from the UK and it was awful. I did manage to keep it running for 20 years before I sold it. I said in another post that the best cars made come from Germany and Japan. I know that some folks are going to hate me for saying this...

Jay
 
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DanQ

GT Owner
Aug 18, 2005
336
Lake Zurich, IL
Jay,
High silicon numbers seem to be normal on the first few oil changes. The comments I've seen say this is due to sealers (gasket material) used during assembly. It should go down over time. If we could get some more samples from people with higher miles we could predict when this motor gets broken in. With the miles I put on it could take another 2 years to get to 15,000 miles which is my current guess at when the wear numbers stabilize.

I might see if I can find some oil data on mustang mod motors. I'm sure that would show what we might expect from our motors.

Send me your data and I'll add it to my sheet an post it.
Dan
 

ThatPhilBrettGuy

GT Owner
May 9, 2007
391
London, UK.
....I said in another post that the best cars made come from Germany and Japan. I know that some folks are going to hate me for saying this...

Jay
Ah well, this isn't going to make you happy then... There were a number of manufactors using Nikasil linings around this time. The company that used it the most, and had by far the most problems? BMW. So much so that even now the first question a buyer should ask when looking at a V8 or 528i model is whether it's a Nikasil car. If so, walk away....no run actually.
 

richardhead

GT Owner
Sep 19, 2006
169
My 1998 XK8 has nikasil cylinders. Apparently there is a major problem as high sulphur fuels eat the lining. Thank God I only burned premium fuel. Major loss of compression, engine becomes totally worthless. Jaguar is no help. They stopped using the techonology.

Here is a link to BMW's issue with Nikasil. I wasn't aware of the problem, and also being a Corvette follower have heard of no issues with the ZR-1 LT5 engine...and some of these guys are running up into the "hard" 200,000 mile range now. In fact, I've not heard of even one complaint coming across the ZR1 NET.

http://www.bmwworld.com/engines/nikasil.htm