Oh great, another gauge failure.

[RPM217]

The only real problem I have with the "problem" is that Ford is knowingly selling a part that they know has a high probability of failure, and they don't "remove it" from parts, and have a replacement that isn't prone to failure. I agree that while it would be "nice" to have them "goodwill" replacements, that's not realistic. This is a fantastic car, that is certainly a "halo" vehicle, and there's not an owner that I'm aware of, who would be willing to give up the car because of this problem. However, I do know that we'd like to have a "manufacture approved" replacement, whether from Autometer or Speedhut, to confidently replace a failed unit. I'm probably acting prematurely in replacing the gauges now, knowing that Speedhut is planning a sale in March, but my car is currently at GTG's, and while they have it, I'll have them remove the originals (for storage, with prayers that they won't fail), and install the replacements now.

 

[Gene Cassone]

Agree precisely with above!!

 

[junior]

Absurd logic from Autometer to say the least. Does anyone know why Autometer is not willing to fix the tach and speedo but willing to fix the other gauges ? I mean if they figured out a fix, why not apply it to all gauges ?

 

[BlackICE]

Absurd logic from Autometer to say the least. Does anyone know why Autometer is not willing to fix the tach and speedo but willing to fix the other gauges ? I mean if they figured out a fix, why not apply it to all gauges ?

If I had to guess the other smaller gauges are a stock size less money is needed to update those. The tach and speedo probably need a bigger investment to update.

Dumb move IMO, either do them all or none.

 

[nota4re]

Just to briefly re-cap. Autometer STILL doesn't think the problem is with their gauges - and the cause is elsewhere in the system. (The consequence is, of course, a gauge failure.) Allegedly Autometer has these "identical" gauges in non-automotive applications and has had no problem with them.

The root failure is the stepper motor. The new gauges will use a "conventional" stepper motor whereas the GT gauges utilize an air-core motor. The conventional stepper motors cannot sweep as fast as an air core motor - hence no tach or speedo in the new run. Conventional stepper motors are noisier than air-core motors too.

 

[the Wizard]

Kendall,

If what AutoMeter says is true, that the problem is further upstream, then a possible solution such as the gentleman posted earlier might be possible. So, as I've been saying all along.....why won't they share what they know? Or maybe they don't know? Does Ford know? It could be a simple ad-on module could save the rest of the gauges currently out there??? And then replacing a faulty gauge from the current stock could be an acceptable solution.....

 

[shelbyelite]

I personally think the issue is the gauge. I have had more than one NEW IN THE BOX gauge be DOA. Since it was brand new in the box, can't blame the problem on something upstream. The problem is with the autometer gauges in my opinion. Want to rant and rave about someone, they are the ones to complain about (again, in my opinion).

 

[BlackICE]

I personally think the issue is the gauge. I have had more than one NEW IN THE BOX gauge be DOA. Since it was brand new in the box, can't blame the problem on something upstream. The problem is with the autometer gauges in my opinion. Want to rant and rave about someone, they are the ones to complain about (again, in my opinion).

:agree: Ed Sims also had a DOA replacement gauge. Also it was disclosed that one of the failure modes was corrosion, that isn't caused by dirty power. That's not to rule out some of the gauges also failing from dirty power was well.

I would rather has a slower moving tach and speedo that didn't fail than a fast but don't last gauges.

 

[dbk]

If the primary problem is not the gauges, then presumably people that have replacement Speedhuts would have those dying as well. I have never seen a single person report a dead Speedhut gauge.

 

[BlackICE]

If the primary problem is not the gauges, then presumably people that have replacement Speedhuts would have those dying as well. I have never seen a single person report a dead Speedhut gauge.

The installed base is too small and the time in service also too small to get reliable statistical data. Remember about 2 or less years after the car was generally available, a few people has gauge failures, but many on this forum said it's not a problem, no big flaw, but just a fluke. It took many more years for most to agree there was a real problem.

That said, my guess is that Speedhuts will have a much lower failure rate than OEM. Auto power system are notoriously bad, not anything like 0v to 16v like you may expect from a dead battery to a fully charged battery with a hyperactive alternator. There are many inductive loads on the car that play havoc with "battery" voltage as Jay has pointed out. You can design a system where each gauge is responsible to accept dirty power, or specify that only clean power will be supplied to the gauges and the auto maker is responsible to filter all power going to the gauges.

Is the problem with the car, or the gauges, that depends on contract between Ford and Autometer and specifications agreed upon.

 

[GTdrummer]

I fired up my 22 year old Viper last weekend. Each gauge works perfectly. What's with all the rocket science?

 

[Empty Pockets]

I fired up my 22 year old Viper last weekend. Each gauge works perfectly. What's with all the rocket science?

A couple years ago I suggested what was needed was to identify the component part or parts inside FGT gauge system that are different (or maybe missing) from every other single gauge system on the planet ('could be something as simple as the circuitry/solder/resistance of the wiring used) and you'll have found the source of the failures. 'Reason? 'Don't know of any other car made that's had this problem...and they ALL have gauges.

'Seems to me Speedhut has now proven the source of the problem is actually IN the gauges themselves...or failures would also have occurred with the Speedhuts by now...and there have been none.

Therefore, I'm 'editing' my original proposal/theory/suggestion to this: Compare the Speedhut's internals to the OEMs. Whatever's different there is the likely culprit.

Buuuuuut, I suppose that approach is just too darned simplistic.

Flame away, experts.

 

[GTdrummer]

I am not taking sides, but I have had some fairly complicated cases over the years. I am confident I could hire someone to figure out the root cause in less than a day.

 

[bonehead]

I am not taking sides, but I have had some fairly complicated cases over the years. I am confident I could hire someone to figure out the root cause in less than a day.

I'm sure you could get enough people on this forum to chip in to pay for such an expert.

 

[dbk]

The installed base is too small and the time in service also too small to get reliable statistical data. Remember about 2 or less years after the car was generally available, a few people has gauge failures, but many on this forum said it's not a problem, no big flaw, but just a fluke. It took many more years for most to agree there was a real problem.

That was going to be my question, how many people have those and how long.

Compare the Speedhut's internals to the OEMs. Whatever's different there is the likely culprit.

That's not new information. The entire movement is different.

 

[Empty Pockets]

The entire movement is different.

Different from what? Every other gauge on the planet? Or just different from the 'Huts?

IOW, is there any other gauge made by anyone anywhere that employs exactly the same "movement" as the FGT OEMs? If so, why haven't we heard of those gauges failing? But if, as I suspect, the OEM gauges are in some way unique to the world, then, either the whole one-of-a-kind movement ought to be scrapped in favor of a more 'conventional' design, or, whatever the individual part or parts are that make the OEMs unique ought to be replaced.

'Too deep for me...

The simplest solution, of course, would be Jay's if his idea works out.

 

[MAD IN NC]

Different from what? Every other gauge on the planet? Or just different from the 'Huts?

IOW, is there any other gauge made by anyone anywhere that employs exactly the same "movement" as the FGT OEMs? If so, why haven't we heard of those gauges failing?

The problem of "Air Core" stepper motors was first posted on the Mustang Forum and you can even find links where it shows how to replace them...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgqAoQFCu0A

even then parts are on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Mustang-Stepper-Instrument-Speedometer-Dashboard/dp/B004WBAD0U

what are you worried about? you have to 1.) have a car and 2.) drive it.................

 

[Empty Pockets]

The problem of "Air Core" stepper motors was first posted on the Mustang Forum and you can even find links where it shows how to replace them...

Is that the only part that's unique? Dave stated that the whole "movement" is different.

what are you worried about? you have to 1.) have a car and 2.) drive it.................

May a flock of diarrhea-plagued pigeons dive bomb your FGT daily.

On second thought, make that "hourly".

 

[nota4re]

Just to make clear, I am NOT trying to either support or defend Autometer's position. The fact that Speedhut gauges have not failed is not in itself enough information to absolve an upstream issue as I suspect the architecture of the gauges is significantly different. The reason that I posted Autometer's position ("we STILL do not believe it is our gauges") simply says that they have not to this date isolated a problem spot in their gauge design. The data provided by Shelby and others is the most compelling - the fact that some OEM gauges are DOA...... and so the debate will likely continue. What we DO know is that new, small-diameter, gauges will be available through Autometer in the August timeframe. If you have a speedo or tach failure now or in the future, you'll have to roll the dice with an old-stock replacement or go the Speedhut route.

 

[dbk]

Different from what? Every other gauge on the planet? Or just different from the 'Huts?

The part that goes bad in the Autometer gauge is the air core motor. This was manufactured for the OEM FGT gauges by a company called SIMCO.

The rotary actuator in a Speedhut gauge is a stepper motor. Per Speedhut "Each gauge uses an internal stepper motor to drive the pointer. This high torque stepper motor performs much better than the air core gauge movements from other gauge companies." The stepper motor in the Mustang referenced above was manufactured by a company called Switec, and is also in some GM, Mercedes, and BMW products.