Oh great, another gauge failure.

[FBA]

I drive without my Turbo boost gauge all the time - oh wait, I don't have a turbo...maybe that's why I have no gauge?? Seriously though, I drive without my tire pressure gauge most of the time.

 

[cobra498]

Years ago I built up my 68 GT-350 with a heavily modified 69' BOSS 302 motor. To protect my investment I wired the ignition through the oil pressure idiot light sensor which activates at about 5 psi so if I lost oil pressure the motor would quit. Worked great, but had the added hassle of needing to add an under-dash override switch for starting the car so the motor wouldn't have to crank too long to build up enough oil pressure before firing. But with today's electronic systems, software, and sensors it seems it would be simple to have ignition cutoff w/o oil pressure functionality, without the starting issue.

I lost an engine in a Formula Atlantic car because of a loss in oil pressure and thought it would be a good idea to put an automatic kill switch in if I lost oil pressure. A couple of races later I lost oil pressure in a high speed corner, the engine quit and I crashed, the damage to the car was more expensive to fix than the engine so I gave up on the idea

 

[ByeEnzo]

I read a bit of that thread. Did the oil pressure gauge save you, or did the oil starved clattering noise save you?

I'm not trying to say gauges aren't needed. But the question was, does anybody drive with failed gauges? I'd say, if power train failures were rank ordered, oil pump failure would be very low on the list. Pure speculation on my part, of course. I'd still drive without any gauges. That stuff only happens to other people. :biggrin

The gauge started jumping around between normal and low. I thought the sending unit had failed. The engine clatter was what finally alerted me to look deeper into the problem. I pull
the oil pump belt cover with every oil change and check for play in the pulley and for metal wear from the pulley. Also check the belt and tensioner. 22k miles since my "incident" with no problems.

 

[Wwabbit]

I'm curious how a direct reading boost gauge goes in. Is there a port on the supercharger for a sensor and sending unit? I'm guessing the connection to the instruments is a wire (not a live pressure tube), but where do you route it? Detailed instructions in a "how I did it" topic would be a great help.

I'm interested because the configuration I have offsets the stock boost gauge and so fare there hasn't been a "cheating" way to recenter it. So it's out, but it doesn't read right anyway so maybe the best solution is to just go with Speedhut.

There's a port on the forward RH side of the SC. See small rubber boot covering port. Take a line off that to a direct reading gage.

 

[the Wizard]

a line off that, or install a sender there?

 

[FBA]

Same difference...

 

[Wwabbit]

a line off that, or install a sender there?

this is a port directly to the intake manifold, so just connect a flex or hard line there and run to a direct reading gauge wherever you want it.

 

[RPM217]

After much thought, I've decided not to "have to replace" and move ahead. My car is currently with Rich and Denis, receiving lots of love, and I'm going to have them remove the OE gauges and pack them up properly, and put in the Speedhuts, while they have the car. I just know if I don't, I'll be the next one crying "fail". IMHO, Ford has no reason to do anything for us, or they would have by now. This is not a new problem, nor is it going to go away on its own. Yes, I'd like to stay original, but that's not possible, so I'll keep the originals (for my heirs, as I'm not selling, unless I'm unable to drive it) in storage, and drive with gauges that won't fail when I need them most. On a car that's worth as much as our cars, it just doesn't pay for us to "cheap out", and not protect our investment!!!

 

[bonehead]

Haven't looked into them yet as all mine still work (knock on wood), but how much for a no nonsense set of Speedhuts? Are they still stamping their name on the gauges as default or can you get them without (without having to pay for the 'option')?

 

[mmlcobra]

After much thought, I've decided not to "have to replace" and move ahead. My car is currently with Rich and Denis, receiving lots of love, and I'm going to have them remove the OE gauges and pack them up properly, and put in the Speedhuts, while they have the car. I just know if I don't, I'll be the next one crying "fail". IMHO, Ford has no reason to do anything for us, or they would have by now. This is not a new problem, nor is it going to go away on its own. Yes, I'd like to stay original, but that's not possible, so I'll keep the originals (for my heirs, as I'm not selling, unless I'm unable to drive it) in storage, and drive with gauges that won't fail when I need them most. On a car that's worth as much as our cars, it just doesn't pay for us to "cheap out", and not protect our investment!!!

Roger, does "lots of love" mean TT or Whipple?
Then you won't have to worry about the gauges being original or not!
Lol.
Best,
Mark

 

[RPM217]

Roger, does "lots of love" mean TT or Whipple?
Then you won't have to worry about the gauges being original or not!
Lol.
Best,
Mark

Lots of love is not TT or Whipple, that's "whole lotta love"!!!

 

[the Wizard]

this is a port directly to the intake manifold, so just connect a flex or hard line there and run to a direct reading gauge wherever you want it.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I said something about running a pressure line to the dash, but someone up above said the boost gauge used a sender unit providing an electrical signal instead. But now it sounds like we're back to the pressure line again. Therefore, my question was is it a fitting to a pressure line, or a sender unit that is installed?

Also, why the hell doesn't one of our EE types tear one of these gauges open, find the fault, and determine how difficult a repair would be? How hard could it be? Imagine the hero who could repair our gauges for a couple hundred dollars a pop?

 

[bonehead]

Also, why the hell doesn't one of our EE types tear one of these gauges open, find the fault, and determine how difficult a repair would be? How hard could it be? Imagine the hero who could repair our gauges for a couple hundred dollars a pop?

Has anyone taken a broken gauge to a gauge repair shop? I know they exist. There was one in Tempe, AZ that specialized in speedo, tach, instrument cluster repair. If the fix is indeed simple, I would assume they could figure it out and/or repair it. If the technology behind the Autometer gauges is proprietary, then there may be no other option than waiting on the replacements or going with Speedhut.

 

[the Wizard]

If proprietary, in other words the failure is inside some chip, has anyone asked AutoMeter to repair?

BTW, how embarrassing is it that you get chosen to do the gauges on an amazing car like this, fumble the ball dramatically, and have your competitor come in and clean up your mess with an entire cluster cheaper than a single gauge of yours? I hope someone from AutoMeter is reading this......

 

[FBA]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I said something about running a pressure line to the dash, but someone up above said the boost gauge used a sender unit providing an electrical signal instead. But now it sounds like we're back to the pressure line again. Therefore, my question was is it a fitting to a pressure line, or a sender unit that is installed?

Also, why the hell doesn't one of our EE types tear one of these gauges open, find the fault, and determine how difficult a repair would be? How hard could it be? Imagine the hero who could repair our gauges for a couple hundred dollars a pop?

You were clear!

Here's the deal - the sender measures pressure physically and sends an electrical signal to the legacy boost gauge in the dash You install the sender at the port, or you can attach the sender unit to a vacuum/ boost line which attaches to the port. It comes to the same thing either way. While I have not yet checked, the fitting/ threads on the sender should be the same size as the port and if it's not, you'd just get an adapter, but I have to think they're the same size/ thread etc.

I think finding the issue electrically in any of the gauges probably just isn't worth the trouble. The part that blows may not even be the root cause, so even if you're successful in locating the blown part, you probably won't know what the actual cause was. It's bad design, or bad part spec, or a bad batch of those parts...and it could be any of those, or all of them.

For $1300-$1400 for a complete new set, it's not worth anyone's time to even try and find the cause, and it's not just one gauge blowing, so even if you could find the cause, you might have to fix it in more than one area, and if the boards are SMT, which they likely are, you're pretty much SOL in terms of a simple repair. I would think it's a rectifier or a filter somewhere in the gauge power supply that's causing the issue, but really, it could be anything in there.

 

[the Wizard]

OK I guess the term "flex or hard line" confused me....that sounded line a pressure line.....ok, there's sender transponder unit....got it. Other than the install is there any other downside to this direct reading boost gauge? Should the range be changed for a pulley car?

Bad gauges. I mostly agree with what you're saying, but strongly disagree that its not worth the trouble. I wouldn't think diagnosing the failure mode for the properly equipped technician would be very difficult, and it could provide the perfect solution. Or maybe not. But, we all know no matter how inexpensive the SpeedHut set is (that I'm about to order) I doubt anyone here would rather have that set than a proper OEM set. Actually I'm shocked everybody here seems to agree with your position.....not worth the effort....and that nobody has tried. I'm stunned at the overall lack of information regarding this horrible problem. Who here is our best EE? Would love to hear from them? FBA, are you a EE?

Anyway, while you're probably right, that it might not be worth the effort.....it could also be a $20 part and 30 minutes of labor....just think about that.

 

[FBA]

Not an EE by trade, but know more than enough to know that in today's world, given that much of what is built is SMT (Surface Mount Technology), meaning very tiny components and very hard to hand solder or even trace, it's a losing battle. I didn't post what I posted because I thought it was just the easy way out, I posted it based on what I do know about solving an issue such as this, based on some knowledge.

Here's what I do know - it's probably a few cents for the part, as I don't believe it's a proprietary chip, but a basic component in the power supply. Understanding where to look and if found, how to replace is a whole other story. That's the hard part.

I designed and built automotive product in China, that we distributed for years before doing what I do now...and I know just enough to be dangerous - LOL

 

[the Wizard]

Again I hear ya, and don't totally disagree. I guess my counter-point would be every modern electronic appliance uses surface mount components......and when your multi-thousand flat screen tv has a problem we take it in for repair right? I guess in this case it's usually an entire circuit board is replaced, which might not be an option here? Still, I really hate the lack of knowledge and information with regard to this topic.....never have so many known so little about so much......lol.....

 

[Sinovac]

....never have so many known so little about so much......lol.....

Bonus points for the Winston Churchill reference.

 

[dbk]

In an effort to preserve diplomatic relations between the supplier and the OEM while getting some type of fix, it's not worth getting into finger pointing. There's been a long standing difference of opinion on what causes them to die, but at this point but sides have agreed to spend money to fix it. I know that's a crappy answer, but we've been trying to move the football on this an inch at a time for the last 4 years and there's at least some semblance of a solution coming. Originally it was supposed to be winter, now it's August.

The originally supplied component uses an air core movement. The Speedhut replacement units use a stepper motor (and none that I know of have died). The replacement Autometer units will use a stepper motor. You can make of that what you will. It's basically the parts equivalent of an Alford Plea. Some of the failed gauges exhibited corrosion on the internal air core meter movement components, and in subsequent testing gauge failure was replicated in a corrosion chamber using functional gauges. A low battery voltage condition was also present for a number of failed gauges. The only other big one was the pressure sending unit being faulty causing the oil pressure gauge not to function, which is resolved with the replacement of that part. If you would like a more detailed answer on why the gauges have died, I would contact Autometer.