New member with lots of Q's about a car I bid on EBay, with Salvage title

[PeteK]

Roketman, BlackIce, et al: Given the terms of the sale, I have to do the deal by this Friday, so flying or having someone drive 3-1/2 hours each way probably is a non-starter at this point. I also have a reference to a shop that works on exotics in Miami, and if I can't get someone with GT experience, I'll go to the other shop instead. Not ideal, but better than most options. I have little hesitancy in walking away if I don't have a good feeling about the car. But, I got it at an attractive enough price that I can spend on further repairs and still be money ahead, especially considering what prices have done recently.

A friend of mine from the MercedesList wen to look at it today. His report was favorable. It ran well, steered straight, braked straight, and looked pretty good. During the drive, he noted that getting going from a stop in first gear, the clutch or tranny made a "clanking"s sound, but only getting started in first. Otherwise it shifted smoothly and ran quietly in all gears. He says the owner said it had a "racing clutch" which may have had a harsh engagement. I understand these double-plate clutches are touchy. He did not see any oil leaks.

He found a few spots of paint overspray, and miscellaneous scratches and nicks. Wheels had some scratches on them from curbs, but not obviously bent. There was some rust staining around the upper mounting bolt on the left rear shock. Air Conditioning worked, but was cool, not cold, so it probably needs some refrigerant added. Switches and windows worked. The oil gauge and voltmeter were not working. The "third brake light" appeared to be loose and rattled a bit.

At the front end, the driver's side headlight lens appeared to be glazed. The front hood had an uneven gap (tapered from rear to front about 1/4 inch on the drivers' side), and the left side hood latch did not pull the hood down tightly. After it was latched he could pull up about 1/2" on it. That sounds like a simple adjustment to me, but maybe on a FGT it ain't so simple.

So his verdict was it was worth flying down to see in person and get a PPI. That's what I will do. I'm willing to accept a few flaws (like gauges not working and A/C not fully cold) because I can fix those easily enough, and I'm getting it at an attractive enough price that I can afford to spend $$ to fix stuff, buy new tires, etc.

On the MercedesList we have a frequent saying that "there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes." So, yes, I'm keeping my eyes open. We'll see if I have to eat my words! :wink

 

[BlackICE]

I don't trust frame repairs. No way to tell if the repair is sound enough for hard use. e.g. would you trust going 200+ MPH or going through 1G turns at 100+ MPH. I wouldn't! For your last report the car wasn't repaired as well as it could or should be. But at the right price for a car that isn't going to be stressed it could be a good buy. I would buy it for 80K in a flash, but not 150K. Between ???

 

[roketman]

Sounds a bit risky to me I would listen to your intuition. You don't want to chase problems the rest of your life with this car.Unless parts have been magna flux you really don't know if they're okay
Just my. 02
Please keep us informed
Very best of luck

 

[Xcentric]

He claims it was repaired "LIKE NEW."

Sounds like you have room for further negotiation. Headlight = a few $K, gauges = $1k each (or replace entire panel with Speedhuts). OEM double plate clutch is smooth as whipped cream. Never heard a clank in any GT. OEM base cast wheels = $2K/set, optional forged wheels = $10K/set if you can find them.

It's hard to keep up with replacement part prices, because they are getting scarce and prices are going crazy.

The red GT at Katie's was mine. Dino is a Benedict Arnold. He told me he'd never sell the GT. I know he's had it for sale, but did not know he sold it. Good luck Pete!

 

[Indy GT]

Magnaflux

Sounds a bit risky to me I would listen to your intuition. You don't want to do is chase problems the rest of your life with the car.Unless parts have been magna flux you really don't know if they're okay.

I kinda agree with Kendall's post. Care must certainly be taken in weld repair of the frame if it were damaged. The frame most likely can be fixed but by someone who knows (and has experience with) our specific frame. I would certainly invest in a phone call to the GT Guys (Rich or Dennis at 734-658-9498) to get their thoughs as time is of the essence. And I would defer completely to their assessment of frame repair. They certainly have seen a number of examples.

And uh, Ron, (just to keep you straight) you do not Magnaflux aluminum. Just will not work.:confused
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnaflux

You want to Fluorescent Penetrant Inspect (FPI) non-ferrous alloys (aluminium, titanium, magnesium, etc).

 

[Xcentric]

You mean J-B Weld (The World's Strongest Bond) and some silver paint may not be enough?

Maybe ours cars are still not valuable enough, but one would think that both the damage and every step of repair would be thoroughly documented in writing and photos.

Imagine a poorly repaired shock tower letting go at high speed. Or, weakened structural points not protecting you in a crash.

 

[GKW05GT]

Not a bad price but way too many questionsand red flags for me. JMO

 

[RALPHIE]

If time is so greatly important - WALK (or RUN)!

Otherwise get Rich and/or Denis down to look at it in their time frame, as nothing would be more important than a PPI from the experts on a KNOWN damaged car. Most people bring them in just to look at undamaged cars.

Never let the threat of time force you to make a deal - you'll thank yourself in the future.

 

[RPM217]

If time is so greatly important - WALK (or RUN)!

Otherwise get Rich and/or Denis down to look at it in their time frame, as nothing would be more important than a PPI from the experts on a KNOWN damaged car. Most people bring them in just to look at undamaged cars.

Never let the threat of time force you to make a deal - you'll thank yourself in the future.

I've never had the pleasure of meeting Ralphie, but I know what he has said above, is the best advice you will ever receive. I flew Rich in to see a no story car, and knew from the start what I was going to buy. Buying a story car, get the best and most knowledgeable information you can obtain. Listen!!

 

[PeteK]

Sounds a bit risky to me I would listen to your intuition. You don't want to chase problems the rest of your life with this car.Unless parts have been magna flux you really don't know if they're okay
Just my. 02
Please keep us informed
Very best of luck

Roketman: Magnaflux only works on magnetic parts, e.g. steel connecting rods, etc. For aluminum, we typically use dye penetrant to detect cracks.

 

[FENZO]

Ps if you can afford the price of the salvage title car . Just spend a little more for a no issue , no story GT

Any cracks or breaks in the aluminum frame structure of the car and Ford's (safe) position is that the frame must be replaced.

I don't trust frame repairs. No way to tell if the repair is sound enough for hard use. e.g. would you trust going 200+ MPH or going through 1G turns at 100+ MPH. I wouldn't! For your last report the car wasn't repaired as well as it could or should be. But at the right price for a car that isn't going to be stressed it could be a good buy. I would buy it for 80K in a flash, but not 150K. Between ???

Not a bad price but way too many questionsand red flags for me. JMO

I don't understand the resistance to repair. Should every wrecked car be immediately crushed? I've been a car enthusiast all my life and can't think of a single example of a sports car falling apart due to sketchy frame repair let alone a proper repair.

Certainly you should understand what you are buying and lord knows there are scammers about, but the avoid at all costs hysteria over "story" cars isn't legit IMO. I can appreciate the savings of a salvage car.

Many of the observations you mentioned I would say are common with "no story" GTs, with the exception of the clanking. Part of the beauty of a GT is that those things are simple and easy and relatively cheap to address.

 

[twobjshelbys]

The car is probably fine for a street daily driver, but I'd want a lot more supporting data before I'd seriously track it. If you want something to take on a drive or car shows, you'll do fine. It has a salvage title so it will never be a grade A car but it's still a Ford GT!!!

 

[BlackICE]

The car is probably fine for a street daily driver, but I'd want a lot more supporting data before I'd seriously track it. If you want something to take on a drive or car shows, you'll do fine. It has a salvage title so it will never be a grade A car but it's still a Ford GT!!!

:agree:

 

[PeteK]

I took a closer look at the pictures from the damaged car 4 years ago. It looks to me like the shock was unbolted from the shock mount, not broken. At this point, I'll go look at the car and see for myself.

I also found a person in Miami who works on several FGTs, including two that a customer uses for racing. He was referred to me by the Mercedes contact in Miami. The technician is Edouard Henriquez, at ANSA Motorsports, a racing shop and exotic dealer. URL is ansamotorsports.com. His phone is 305-401-6770. I talked to him today, and set up an inspection for Thursday.

 

[PeteK]

I don't understand the resistance to repair. Should every wrecked car be immediately crushed? I've been a car enthusiast all my life and can't think of a single example of a sports car falling apart due to sketchy frame repair let alone a proper repair.

Certainly you should understand what you are buying and lord knows there are scammers about, but the avoid at all costs hysteria over "story" cars isn't legit IMO. I can appreciate the savings of a salvage car.

Many of the observations you mentioned I would say are common with "no story" GTs, with the exception of the clanking. Part of the beauty of a GT is that those things are simple and easy and relatively cheap to address.

FENZO, ditto what you said. An old watchmaker once told me "it didn't grow on a tree!" By which he meant, it wasn't made by God, so if a man made it, a man can fix it. (full explanation--when I was in high school, lo those many years ago, I learned the art of watch repair, mostly just by taking apart broken watches and learning about them. Trust me, working on car-sized parts is easier, if not as clean) If the frame got bent a little, it can be straightened without much, if any, sacrifice in strength; and depending on the alloy, it can actually get stronger due to work hardening. look at what the GT FOrum member in Australia (or maybe England) did to fix one that was seriously crunched, and he even converted it to right hand drive!

As I've noted before, I'm not looking for a pristine museum piece, but something I can drive regularly without much guilt if I add a few more scratches and 10's of thousands of miles. Besides, the perfect "no story" ones are $100,000+ more than this one. If I drive it for awhile and decide it isn't the right car, I'll sell it and get something better. It's not like it's your wife or kids…

Besides, I have an old Porsche 911 for track days.

 

[PeteK]

By the way, FENZO, love your Ron Burgundy picture!

 

[RALPHIE]

Maybe some of you guys missed my point - NEVER get pushed to a sales decision by the seller's time constraint - WALK!

If it is a fixable car, for what you want, take the time to get the facts before you decide. Time is on your side.

Virtually every GT40 had serious damage and was repaired to like-new-or-better.

Just don't succumb to a timeline pressure, as it will usually wind up biting you.

 

[roketman]

It sounds like you are doing your due diligence.
You know what they say in the car business ? Their is an ass for every seat!

 

[FENZO]

Virtually every GT40 had serious damage and was repaired to like-new-or-better.

Good point.

"it didn't grow on a tree!"

Spot on analogy.



I think most folks would be surprised to know the amount and extent of damage/maintenance repairs (including structural) that have been done to the highest performance vehicle 99.9% of us will ever step foot in. Airliners.

 

[Indy GT]

I think most folks would be surprised to know the amount and extent of damage/maintenance repairs (including structural) that have been done to the highest performance vehicle 99.9% of us will ever step foot in. Airliners.

FENZO, A bit of "apples and oranges" here with a comparison to airline structural maintenance. Not quite sure that is a valid comparison.

1) "General public" lives are at risk in an airliner, and they have faith that the government (FAA) and aircraft manufacturers (Boeing, Airbus, Embrier, etc) have tested and approved repair methods to fix primary load carrying structures which if they fail would lead to loss of the aircraft. Often engineers design redundant load paths into primary structures for just such occurances (just like the airlines require two pilots in the front).

2) Structural failures in aircraft have the potential to kill a number of people who have no knowledge of a botched structural failure. If you have your FGT frame fixed and the repair fails leading to a deadly accident, two people may be killed and you knew a frame structural repair was made to your car.

3) Aircraft company engineers perform extensive analysis and testing of recommended primary structure repairs. It is simply too costly and impractical to tell the airline company just throw the aircraft away without fixing it. From a liability perspective it is certainly fine to tell the product owner to just discard the product and purchase a new undamaged one (as is Ford's position on frame repairs). But for high cost items worthy of an investment of technical review and repair testing, generally a fix can be made.