Need info: 3rd to 2nd downshift when cold...

[Mod Friendly]

Hey guys,

First off my name is Jose and I dont have the priviladge of owning a Ford GT, but I do have the pleasure of working at a Ford dealer. My question to you guys since I have a rather disturbing answer that was passed down to me is, When you are driving and the veh is cold do you have a hard time downshifting from 3rd to 2nd gear. This should only happen when cold, not when warm. And mostly when driving like grandma, not under any sort of aggresive driving. Any feedback on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to figure something out. If and when I can come up with a "logical" answer Ill post it up on here. Again any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jose

 

[SuperB]

Are you talking about my car?
Mine is 1st to 2nd, mostly when it's cold but not always.

There was a discussion about this on either this site or the svt site where someone said their dealer made an adjustment that fixed their 1-2 issue.

Damn, it's getting late, I'll have to drive both ways in rush hour traffic to pick her up.

 

[Mod Friendly]

Yea it is in regards to your car, The GT engineers called us and said it was "normal". So after you get yours were gonna put fluid in Adolfs car and see if that one does the same thing. The shifting from 1 to 2 seems fine now, but this is when driving normal and when the vehicle is cold that the downshifting from 3 to 2nd it isnt going in to the gear. Were gonna see on the white GT if it does the same thing. This is just normal driving, when cold going from 3rd to 2nd. If you do any sort of aggresive driving it will not happen.

Your car btw is on the alignment machine right now getting finished up. It takes longer to set up the machine to read it than it does to actually read and adjust everything.

 

[biffom]

I think my issue is shifting down into 1st (2nd to a lesser degree). Up shifting is fine. Like everybody else it goes away when warm.

 

[fjpikul]

3-2 shift

No problem with my third to second shift, hot or cold. I do catch a little on the first to second shift when it's cold.

 

[FrankBarba]

no problem with my down shifting. easy fix....start off in 2nd gear until warm....

 

[abolfaz]

Were gonna see on the white GT if it does the same thing.

Remember my car ran w/o gear oil for a little while so it my not be the best unit to judge by. Maybe running w/o the gear oil got rid of the shifting problem when its cold? :lol

 

[todd]

1-2 shift

I took my gt back to the dealer because of the grinding on the 1-2 shift and he called the wixom plant and talked to the guy in charge of trannies. (It seems even Mr.Fords car does the same thing), I was told the trannie is 97% effecent and to fix the problem would rob horsepower. He went on to say he has taken apart trannies with 70,000 miles and has found no damage from the problem. So in the end they did not do anything to the car

 

[AZGT]

Ideas for Mod Friendly

Mine does the 1-2 issue when cold. I was told to come back at 1000 miles since it may get better (it hasn't). I know that Ford says it is "normal", :bs but of course that doesn't make it OK. Even when fairly warm, I am still afraid to pull a quick 1-2.

When I was in I had the dealer bleed the line, etc, but that was not a fix.

In solving the problem there seems to be a couple of logical answers. One would be a tolerance / gear angle / machining for the 1-2 syncros. Maybe they did the machining so close that the heat (warm up) actually makes a difference. If it is the gear oil like they say, why only 1-2? All of the other shifts are fine. Unless there is some kind of oiling holes specifically for that shift that could be clogged with the heavier fluid.

The other thoughts that I had are related to the clutch slave and the clutch.
For the slave, heat would also make a volume change for it. Perhaps the slave / tubing / volume are too small.

The other thing that we don't seem to have really looked as yet is the clutch itself. Maybe there needs to be a little more release for the "throw" (which of course could still be related to slave volume) or the pivot point of the release arm is off. This seems the most logical in that typically (in the rest of the auto world) if there is gear grind on the shift, the clutch has not released all the way (unless there really IS a syncro / gear problem which Ford says there isn't). The other question is maybe it is specifically clutch related. The next time I'm out I will try a clutchless shift to see if that does anything other than not work or grind.

(Posted this on the short shifter thread - an after thought). Has anyone actually installed the short shifter? Did it fix the shifting problems?

How about running a couple of those ideas by Wixom and see if they have tried them. If they say they haven't but say the stuff should be OK, well, there is a problem right from the start, so something is not designed or measured right. Maybe a little back to the drawing board double check.

 

[dbtgt]

Mine also grinds when cold - both the 1-2 shift and the 3-2 downshift. Once warm all is good! :biggrin I'm pretty sure it has to do with the viscosity of the transmission fluid when cold. It is interesting to note (at least to me) that EVERY six speed mannual transmission I have owned without fail had this symptom (BMW 540, BMW M3 (E46), 997 C2 and the GT). I also know that weak syncro issues are routinely solved in other transmissions by changing to Redline synthetic MTF. I believe that the Ricardo box we have in our cars is set up for high load conditions - this is a "race car" after all - and the fact that mine works flawlessly AFTER it warms to operating temperature suggests to me that it is probably just fine. There must be a design issue with six speed trannys that make the second gear change problematic when cold. JMHO.

 

[AZGT]

Well, I did try the 1-2 clutchless when cold just to see what happens. I have to admit, though there was the usual little grind going into second that happens with no clutch, it almost seemed easier than the cold 1-2 with the clutch. Hum .............. :confused

 

[SteveA]

. I have to admit, though there was the usual little grind going into second that happens with no clutch, Hum .............. :confused

Uh oh! Hello car fax,..... :biggrin

 

[analogdesigner]

Same here...

At least it seems that all of our tranny's were machined quite indentically!

http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7157&postcount=11

 

[AZGT]

Uh oh! Hello car fax,..... :biggrin

Funny ........... :lol

 

[SuperB]

All six shifters have this sort of issue? My C5 didn't, but it had a bunch of other issues so I guess it was a trade off :wink

I guess if Mr Fords car does it too, that makes it ok. :bored Does Mr. Fords blow off the radiator hoses too? :lol

 

[Mod Friendly]

Alright this is the final update from our dealer in relations to the shift problem. If you drive the car like Ms. Daisy it will give you propblems shifting into gears and out of gears. It is a race tranny and downshifting will need to include revving the car slightly to get it to drop into gears. Joe and Bubeck (shopforeman) took the car out this morning and it was just like Superbs car, but if you downshift and rev up a bit it will smoothly go into the gears. Basically just like a race tranny, its designed to operate that way. Adolf your GT is basically done they are just workin on the paperwork right now.

The only thing that I can relate this to is my bikes, all the bikes that Ive had have all had the same noise/grind from 1st to 2nd and back from 2nd to 1st. If Im on it hard they dont make a peep or anything, but if Im just cruising or if its slow they do make noise. Ive taken trannies apart to inspect gears and synchros but they have been flawless. All I can say is 4 abused bikes and 60k miles between the of them and IVe yet to blow a tranny. And I dont ride em easy, I beat the poop out of them.

 

[SuperB]

Hard Head

Good, the book is closed on that issue. Now what about the issue of cracking one's head on the door? I only did it once, man did it smart. Good to know that the door is solid enough to take a good smack from my hard head without any problems. :lol

Anyone cracked their head more than once? Anyone not cracked their head at all?

 

[DeaconBlues]

Twice in less than 200 miles....... :ack

 

[LEMANSZ]

Never

 

[biffom]

First time was on the show room floor when picking up the car. Last time was in front of another owner - both of them rather embarrassing.