Lutz on Musk

[Xcentric]

The $10,000 difference between the X60D and the X75D? Software.

So, if you're dumb enough to buy an X60D, you're lugging the same battery as the X75D, but you'll run out of juice before you get to a charging station.

And, if you're dumb enough to buy an X75D, you just paid an extra $10K for some software code.

And with both, good luck with your "falcon" doors.

P.S. "Dumb" is harsh, I admit. But Musk is playing his customers. Cultivate them properly, however, and they will pay for a one-way trip to Mars.

 

[Awsum GT]

I believe Tesla will be more profitable when they have the Model 3 in production. I don't think they are planning on making a lot of money on the larger cars. I am not a fan of the X but do like the S... also like not having to buy gas while on trips as well... free supercharger fill ups are nice. I also was able to have my home electric rates lowered a bunch by having the electric car in our garage.

 

[timcantwell]

PT Barnum
Had his chance to sell earlier in the game and make a killing. Government bailout in the near future.

Rex, you've seen my Fisker. I was an investor and subsequent claimant in their bankruptcy proceedings. Let's wait and see, history does repeat itself.

 

[soroush]

Rex, you've seen my Fisker. I was an investor and subsequent claimant in their bankruptcy proceedings. Let's wait and see, history does repeat itself.

from what I understand Musk used a lot of the ideas Fisker came up with first (Ie stole... I don't know if stole is correct word to use, I suppose used the same way that Gates used Xerox's ideas on windows perhaps..) and that fiskers ideas were instrumental in the final design of what eventually became tesla cars. As for Musk you got to give it to him for building two major business empires! will they be successful in the long run? I don't know but Im really surprised the big boys have allowed him to even reach this level without trying to put him out of business already. but if you look at what he has done with space X it is really not surprising of the mans ability to accomplish and go against the big boys.. Who would have thought there would be room for one more rocket company in the united states one that would challenge even the Chinese ! Id say his accomplishment are evident , as for his personality everything that I have read about him shows him to be an asshole...

 

[Awsum GT]

from what I understand Musk used a lot of the ideas Fisker came up with first (Ie stole... I don't know if stole is correct word to use, I suppose used the same way that Gates used Xerox's ideas on windows perhaps..) and that fiskers ideas were instrumental in the final design of what eventually became tesla cars. As for Musk you got to give it to him for building two major business empires! will they be successful in the long run? I don't know but Im really surprised the big boys have allowed him to even reach this level without trying to put him out of business already. but if you look at what he has done with space X it is really not surprising of the mans ability to accomplish and go against the big boys.. Who would have thought there would be room for one more rocket company in the united states one that would challenge even the Chinese ! Id say his accomplishment are evident , as for his personality everything that I have read about him shows him to be an asshole...

Not sure your story is correct... Fisker actually worked for Musk in 2006 and was helping with the designs of what was to be the Model S and then left the company taking trade secrets and started Fisker and built the car that he was designing for Musk/Tesla. I understand Tesla then redesigned a new car that became the Model S. Musk, in the end dropped his case after losing in arbitration.

"Fisker and Tesla also directly shared some things, though some people might have forgotten their connected past. In 2006 and 2007, Tesla actually hired Henrik Fisker and Bernhard Koehler (who later went on to found Fisker Automotive) to do design work for the body of Tesla’s sedan, later named the Model S. Tesla alleged that after working on the designs for Tesla, Fisker and Koehler left with trade secrets and started a competing company, Fisker Automotive. Tesla sued Fisker in the spring of 2008 for breach of contract."

The divergence

So what led each company to the brink of success or the brink of failure? First off, Tesla had about four years of technology development and experimentation with car building, and auto supplier sourcing, before Fisker began working on its Karma car.

From this link: https://gigaom.com/2013/04/02/tesla...ave-been-a-tale-of-two-electric-car-startups/

Alsio... one reason they big car companies have not gone after Tesla is they have been buying his technology for their development projects.

"Over the years Tesla has made revenue from selling this core technology to big automakers like Toyota and Daimler for development projects. Toyota is using it in its RAV-4 EV, and Daimler is using it in its EV Mercedes. Tesla has made hundreds of millions of dollars off of its development deals and has used these funds to push forward production of its cars."

The above is from the same link.

 

[soroush]

Not sure your story is correct... Fisker actually worked for Musk in 2006 and was helping with the designs of what was to be the Model S and then left the company taking trade secrets and started Fisker and built the car that he was designing for Musk/Tesla. I understand Tesla then redesigned a new car that became the Model S. Musk, in the end dropped his case after losing in arbitration.

"Fisker and Tesla also directly shared some things, though some people might have forgotten their connected past. In 2006 and 2007, Tesla actually hired Henrik Fisker and Bernhard Koehler (who later went on to found Fisker Automotive) to do design work for the body of Tesla’s sedan, later named the Model S. Tesla alleged that after working on the designs for Tesla, Fisker and Koehler left with trade secrets and started a competing company, Fisker Automotive. Tesla sued Fisker in the spring of 2008 for breach of contract."

The divergence

So what led each company to the brink of success or the brink of failure? First off, Tesla had about four years of technology development and experimentation with car building, and auto supplier sourcing, before Fisker began working on its Karma car.

From this link: https://gigaom.com/2013/04/02/tesla...ave-been-a-tale-of-two-electric-car-startups/

Alsio... one reason they big car companies have not gone after Tesla is they have been buying his technology for their development projects.

"Over the years Tesla has made revenue from selling this core technology to big automakers like Toyota and Daimler for development projects. Toyota is using it in its RAV-4 EV, and Daimler is using it in its EV Mercedes. Tesla has made hundreds of millions of dollars off of its development deals and has used these funds to push forward production of its cars."

The above is from the same link.

yes Im familiar that he worked for musk early on, and the reason Musk hired him was for his knowledge and expertise in the field and when he left his ideas and concepts had already been stablished in Tesla cars, thats why I said "stole" is not the correct word, but he was the technical brain behind Tesla for that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Automotive

Musk tried to sue him and lost claiming that fisker saved his best ideas for his own car the Karma

 

[soroush]

I read his(Musks) autobiography and even in his own book there are claims that the real brains behind the car initially was fisker, well maybe not in so many words but if you read between the lines

 

[ChipBeck]

Gentlemen,

The Model S is a nice car, and I've spent most of my life as an automobile dealer. The focus of my studies in grad school was economics however and to anybody who could do the math and look at most likely future trends, GM's bankruptcy was all but inevitable a decade before they filed. I was so sure of it I sold my Pontiac-GMC dealership and got the hell out. Using the same math, Tesla is a dead man walking. Great car, terrible business.

Chip

 

[RickH]

Cash burn in 2015 was $2.2 billion and for the first half of 2016 it was $611 million. Large cap-ex for the new model and to cover costs of the new battery factory are a problem. Always over promises on production schedules and under delivers. Capital will definitely need to be raised again shortly.

 

[Awsum GT]

I still think with 373,000 + preorders on the new Model 3 and a large increase in sales of the Model S that they have a following. I believe it is a long term stock. I hope they make it through the tough times of a start up. We have been working with both Tesla and Solar City to develope a complete neighborhood that can sustain itself with a mix of solar, very efficient homes and battery backup wall units. I still believe this is the future. Although I will never give up my gas burning rides. I

 

[PeteK]

Gentlemen,

The Model S is a nice car, and I've spent most of my life as an automobile dealer. The focus of my studies in grad school was economics however and to anybody who could do the math and look at most likely future trends, GM's bankruptcy was all but inevitable a decade before they filed. I was so sure of it I sold my Pontiac-GMC dealership and got the hell out. Using the same math, Tesla is a dead man walking. Great car, terrible business.

Chip

That's the voice of both wisdom and experience. I totally agree with you Chip. Some day we ought to talk about how giving Chrysler the loan from the Treasury in 1978 kept them in the game through the 80's and 90's and weakened both Ford and GM as a result. That's not to take anything away from Lee Iacocca's managerial and leadership brilliance, but it backfired in the long run. Unfortunately, politics triumphed over experience again in 2009.