Light Weight Wheel Offer

[STORMCAT]

Hi Brian,

As the only thing being shown at the moment are CAD models, I assume that the final weights are also being estimated by CAD. For sure, everyone wants to make a lighter wheel but there is typically a trade-off between weight and wheel strength. Do we have any basis to make a comparison between the strength of this wheel compared to stock, for example?

As I stated above in my main post I told them they maybe exposed to 1400 HP plus GT's and maybe 260 MPH cars. No issues or concerns for them . All of thier finished wheels are TUV rated

These people have been building car wheels and aviation wheels for a long time. They also produce aero space and military spec components.
They build wheels for the Gembala cars. I have not seen a Gembala Creation lately that didn't cost over a million dollars and have all state of the are components. That is what drew me into their booth at SEMA was the Gembala line of wheels and their other wheels they presented.

They also make forgings for many of other wheel brands sold here. When the deal is final I have no issues posting links to the company.
If you really get into all of the wheel producers and brands etc. you will find out that there are basically three forging companies in the USA who make and sell the forge blanks to all of the other wheel companies like HRE, I-Forged etc,, and they cut there own designs.
These wheels are being produced by a company that is wheel division of the Forging company. They know the metal properties and the material specs very well

To be honest in the past 5 years the only problem I have ever seen with a forged wheel was a member here had a BBS forged wheel crack on his GT go figure.

 

[STORMCAT]

Brian, why not make the rears 12" or 12.5" if possible. That would fit the Bridgestones better. 12" would also work with the GY. 12.5" or even 13" would be a much better fit for the Bridgestones.

If it is possible and you decide to do a 12.5 or 13" rim, PM me with more details.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE050A+Scuderia

Clinton I will see what the weight add is for going to a 12" wheel. I am not apposed to that.

 

[STORMCAT]

Tell us more about the brake conversion.

Does someone sell a "kit" or are you doing it yourself?

Hey Kumar,
What we have developed is different a set up Than what Ray has on his car. There are some sound engineering reasons for the differences.
Once they are fully tested the set up could be duplicated very easily. I plan to make a very long and detailed post in the near future.
If you are at all interested we can talk.. just PM or email me. Unfortunately the wait for some new wheels is going to kill me but it doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money on light weight rotors and kill the savings with heavy wheels..

 

[STORMCAT]

Brian - glad SEMA paid off. I am not interested in more wheels at this time, but if these are designed / developed and produced by HRE , I can certainly give them high marks. We used HRE exclusively on our DevonGTX - both the 6 lug and the final design Center-locks. Justin set records at Laguna Seca and WillowSprings on the HRE Wheels..good product
AJB (andy)

Hey Andy ,
I stayed in contact with Chris Merril at HRE after SEMA. I had numerous discussions with him about their CF wheel program and other wheel options. I was interested in their P 40 Mono Block wheel which looks very similar. They make some great products. The wheels in post #1 are made " in house " by one of the actual forging companies.

 

[Ed Sims]

wider wheels

Why stick to the stock wheel width? My CC Wheels are 10.5" front width & 12.0" rear. Lot's of clearance left.

Ed

PS I don't know the offset but John at CCW would know. And they are very light!

 

[STORMCAT]

Why stick to the stock wheel width? My CC Wheels are 10.5" front width & 12.0" rear. Lot's of clearance left.

Ed

PS I don't know the offset but John at CCW would know. And they are very light!

Hey Ed,
I talked with the Guys at CCW. They do not have anything close to being this light. In the world of wheels a few pounds is huge. I have talked with them and many wheel Mfgs. A 9" wheel will support most of what people run. Hoosier make a 265 /35 /19 and they recommend a 9" wheel. 275 a 9.5" .They show a 10" wheel for a 295 I have never heard of any one running a 295 up front and not sure there would be a good reason too?? ... 10.5" front is super wide.
I am looking for a wheel that is good for all around use. Street, Track days and mile event. The best track day tire and mile event tire is the stock size Hoosier which was designed for a 11.5" wheel. Why go bigger and add weight? Same applies for the front. Some guys are running 235's and 245's and circling the tracks at an unbelievable pace.. Try to stay in front of Roketman Ron !! And there is still a 265 if that is not enough grip.. I have talk with many wheel guys in the last three weeks. There are varied opinions on wheel width.
The tire rack does more than sell tires. Many experts have indicated the rim width data on their site is very good guide line

 

[PILOTJPW1]

Please keep me in the loop on these Brian. Thanks.

 

[Yukonranger]

According to people in the rotation mass business it carries a factor of about 6 to 1. i.e. Save 1 pound on a rotating part = 6 lbs of static weight. This varies by component and it's relationship to the center of rotation. One of the major appeals of CC brake is the reduction of rotational mass.

This is not true. The power required to accelerate the wheels on at car is a function of the distance from the center. The weight of the tread of the tire requires twice the power to accelerate as non rotating weight. Reduction of mass anywhere other than the tread has less effect.

 

[STORMCAT]

This is not true. The power required to accelerate the wheels on at car is a function of the distance from the center. The weight of the tread of the tire requires twice the power to accelerate as non rotating weight. Reduction of mass anywhere other than the tread has less effect.

The 6 to 1 ratio was info that was published on the British Dymag Wheel web site. It was in thier tech section of the now defunked Web site so I can not post the link. I would think thier engineers would have a good grasp on the numbers.

 

[DRIVEBY]

Hey Stormy, another great project .... I am totally impressed with the carbon brake/lightweight wheel setup. :thumbsup What is keeping you from going to a single bolt system like Peak's?

 

[STORMCAT]

Hey Stormy, another great project .... I am totally impressed with the carbon brake/lightweight wheel setup. :thumbsup What is keeping you from going to a single bolt system like Peak's?

They look cool for sure. I would like to see the combined weight of the hub adapter and the wheel. They use a HRE two piece wheels. I have talked to HRE and the weights they gave me for their standard two piece wheels were much higher than the wheel I am looking at. A single lock wheel requires a beefy center so It is probably at the same weight as the standard wheel of this design.

 

[Yukonranger]

The 6 to 1 ratio was info that was published on the British Dymag Wheel web site. It was in thier tech section of the now defunked Web site so I can not post the link. I would think thier engineers would have a good grasp on the numbers.

Computing the power required for acceleration is straightforward. To accelerate the car to 100mph the tread must be accelerated to 100mph linearly and 100mph rotationally. A point at half the wheel's diameter also has to accelerate to 100mph linearly but only 50mph rotationally. F=ma whether you are in England or anywhere else. Dymag's tech section was apparently written by their marketing dept.

All that being true, there are other advantages to lighter wheels and brakes. It is easier to control less unsprung mass over any bumps and the wheel can follow the road surface better.

 

[STORMCAT]

Computing the power required for acceleration is straightforward. To accelerate the car to 100mph the tread must be accelerated to 100mph linearly and 100mph rotationally. A point at half the wheel's diameter also has to accelerate to 100mph linearly but only 50mph rotationally. F=ma whether you are in England or anywhere else. Dymag's tech section was apparently written by their marketing dept.

All that being true, there are other advantages to lighter wheels and brakes. It is easier to control less unsprung mass over any bumps and the wheel can follow the road surface better.

Maybe you can help me out. If you take a 1 lb weight and tie it to a string 9.5" long and spin it 790 RPM what force is felt at the center of rotaion ? I am not trying to be a Smart a I would just like to know . Thanks, Brian

 

[Yukonranger]

This is a different issue. The answer is that there is about 169lb of force on the string. This is the force trying to force the wheel apart (not the power required to accelerate it)

 

[STORMCAT]

This is a different issue. The answer is that there is about 169lb of force on the string. This is the force trying to force the wheel apart (not the power required to accelerate it)

I was simply stating that rotational mass has a higher value then static mass. The forces to accelerate and decelerate this mass increase or decrease if the mass goes up or down in weight. That was all that I was looking for. Thank you for doing the calculations.
Also Un sprung weight and rotational mass are very different. I would trade you a pound of rotational mass for 2 pounds of un sprung weight any day. A lighter caliper would be less appealing than a lighter rotor

 

[Yukonranger]

No argument from me that it is better to reduce rotating mass than non rotating! I was only taking issue with the notion that there is a 6:1 difference.

 

[STORMCAT]

No argument from me that it is better to reduce rotating mass than non rotating! I was only taking issue with the notion that there is a 6:1 difference.

Thanks for your replies, As I stated the 6:1 ratio came from Dymag. Is it an optomistic number maybe..?? :biggrin

 

[CJ428]

what type of light weight lug nuts will you use Storm man.

 

[ChipBeck]

Weight

They look cool for sure. I would like to see the combined weight of the hub adapter and the wheel. They use a HRE two piece wheels. I have talked to HRE and the weights they gave me for their standard two piece wheels were much higher than the wheel I am looking at. A single lock wheel requires a beefy center so It is probably at the same weight as the standard wheel of this design.

Stormcat,

You are correct here. I don't have exact weight but Jason Heffner told me that Peak's center bolt wheels weigh more than the lightweight BBS factory wheels. Plus the weight of the hub adaptor. They look bitchin though.

Chip

 

[STORMCAT]

what type of light weight lug nuts will you use Storm man.

Hey Carl.. Federal law prohibits me for talking about my nuts in public..:biggrin But if you have something to share on your nuts I am all ears !!:lol PM sent,,,