In the market for an 06

[snaproll]

The only reason I’m tracking completed sales data is because I’m considering a GT as a future purchase and I’m watching the market. I got the idea from the Ford GT selling prices web site which was one of the greatest web sites that I’ve ever seen. The creator is a member of this form. He was tracking the sales of new cars to show the price trends as the market for the GT matured. I’m doing a smaller version for the used market. I’m sure the dealers would have loved to have that site shut down because it saved GT owners lots of money. If you were a dealer I’m sure you would have done everything in your power to speak out against the site.

I know that no one wants to come to terms with the fact that as they drive their car it will depreciate. You seem exceptionally touchy about the issue. If there are people on this site that feel they the can still get over MSRP after putting a few thousand miles on their car, they are the dreamers and not me.

My data is taken from completed sales on EBay. Not an exact science but the best data available to me. Every time I post data you start with your warning of false data being posted to drive down the price of the cars. If you have better data please post it. I only made my statement as a rebuttal to the original post stating that he felt $130K Ford GTs were available.
I simply stated that the lowest price sale I’ve seen in the used Market was $140K. I then went on the state that based on completed sales; I was projecting a $2 per mile value drop in the cars. I even said; take this estimate with a BIG grain of SALT. Is that such a radical statement?

I don't know about any of you guys, but, while I'm willing to pay a premium over the market right now for a 350 mile heritage from my local dealer, I can see these cars with miles going under $100k within 36 months. That's the kind of price drop the 00 Cobra R's experienced and there are only 300 of them and they are reputedly a better track car. There are more than 10 times as many GT's vs. Cobra R's all at prices that your average joe cannot afford. I know a couple of my friends that will buy GT's in a couple years when they hit the 90k range. And why wouldn't they? A nice 04 GT3 can be had for $75k or less, right in line with the depreciation curve I'm facing if the 05 GT is around $110K next year. They made far fewer GT3's too. I hope I'm wrong.

bb

bb

 

[SYCO GT]

A nice 04 GT3 can be had for $75k or less, right in line with the depreciation curve I'm facing if the 05 GT is around $110K next year. They made far fewer GT3's too. I hope I'm wrong.

bb

The Porsche 996 was built in high numbers and several corners were cut in construction during the transition from 993. The interior is quite cheap in design and build. In fact, it is now common to find older equivalent 993 models surpassing used 996 models on the open market.

As a result, the 996 is currently one of the great bargains in sportscars, having experienced significant and painful depreciation.

The 996 GT3 is a dedicated and capable, but narrowly focused track machine. The GT3 is certainly no easy daily driver. GT3's can be bought for a solid deal on the used market.

Who knows what depreciation lies ahead for the Ford GT, but to compare it with the Porsche 996 911, one of the most rapidly depreciating cars out there (and hence, an outstanding value for a first time used sportscar buyer), would probably not be the case for the Ford GT, an easy to live with car, reasonably reliable with performance that surpasses most, if not all, models of the 996 911.

Sure, the GT will likely depreciate over the next few years, but I wouldn't personally speculate that it will drop as hard as the Porsche 996.

Low production numbers alone don't guarantee collectiblity or residual value.

Of course, time will tell.

 

[SYCO GT]

I don't know about any of you guys, but, while I'm willing to pay a premium over the market right now for a 350 mile heritage from my local dealer...That's the kind of price drop the 00 Cobra R's experienced
bb

Let me attempt to recap. If we assume that the MSRP of a Heritage GT, fully equipped is around $173K, and you mentioned you are willing to pay over market, yet, you also believe the Ford GT will be available for around $90K in 2 years, (at which point your buddies will be buying them). If you believe that, perhaps you should wait 24 months and save $83K+, plus interest on your unspent $173K+. (Unless money does not matter to you, in which case, you would already be an owner).

The 2000 Cobra R was a narrowly targeted niche vehicle, designed for one purpose - racing. The consumer demand in the used market for a used race vehicle that has been raced, is relatively small, and in a few years, technology (and hard use) has rendered it less than state of the art for the track, and less valuable. And post-race hardship likely raises concerns for collectibility, without extraneous value factors, like a successful racing heritage, unique to the particular vehicle.

The Ford GT, in contrast, is a racecar re-designed for the street, in its current stock form. It has a much wider audience, and should not be as technologically affected in its segment, since it is not designed solely to compete on a track, nor solely used for that purpose. The GT is designed to memorialize a historic point in time, and yet also shares features and characteristics that will make it timeless in the future (or so we hope).

Have many GT owners considered buying a used Cobra R? Different market I would think. I am not saying that a Cobra R, wasn't an incredible car for its purpose and state of the art at the time. I've owned a Cobra before, so I have nothing against the breed.

IMHO, the dedicated limited track car market (996 GT3 / '00 Cobra R) is not the GT market.

 

[snaproll]

. . .Have many GT owners considered buying a used Cobra R? Different market I would think. I am not saying that a Cobra R, wasn't an incredible car for its purpose and state of the art at the time. I've owned a Cobra before, so I have nothing against the breed.

IMHO, the dedicated limited track car market (996 GT3 / '00 Cobra R) is not the GT market.

I generally agree as it's obviously a different car and a different market. However, while my crystal ball broke a long time ago, I can see some significant depreciation happening before the market turns back to an appreciation mode. In the meantime, you enjoy it like any other car, few of which could EVER be considered an "investment."

To me, the good thing with all of these types of cars is that there are plenty of people who wax them once a month and never drive them. There is a great supply of like-new cars available for years to come.

Also, I'm not saying I'm an MSRP buyer as there seems to be plenty of cars at a discount but I'm not going out of town to save a couple thousand either. It is a bit difficult to spend an extra $10k "just because." Anyone know how much the bump in the driver's door costs?

Who knows, it may be the best and last great car from Ford before they become a part of Nissan or enjoy a government sponsored refinancing.

I do know that I've got the bug and only good sense will keep me from getting one. It is 3x the car that a hot rodded mustang is, after all. At some point you get what you pay for.

 

[cfra7]

Touchy? I don't even think my comments were directed at you. With perhaps the methodology of using non-completed ebay transactions as a basis for valuation, which speaks for itself, in terms of validity.

I do not work in the automotive industry, and cars are NOT an investment for me. I think we can all agree, they are generally depreciating assets, for the vast majority of buyers (non-speculators, non-collectors, non-dealers). Yes, WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT CARS TEND TO GO DOWN IN VALUE.

I've driven 1,400 miles in my first month of ownership. I'm not selling my GT so it doesn't matter to me what you pay, or even if you ever buy one, and I've already bought my car, having done the proper research, and paying under MSRP for a brand new perfect 2006 GT, in the wrapper, 3 miles etc. I bought my GT to enjoy and drive. And of course, it will be cherished and protected. Good reliable information helps everyone. How do I handle depreciation? I use the darn thing, and enjoy it. The car costs me too much money (opportunity cost) to leave it sitting on a pedastal in the garage, even if I would earn a couple thousand more for having less mileage. I AGREE, MILEAGE TENDS TO DECREASE THE VALUE OF A CAR, to what extent, who knows? You propose $2 a mile, that's fine, who knows for sure.

Personally, I think CONDITION of a car is equally, if not more important, but again, I think we all agree that mileage does not help a car's value. Also there are other important valuation factors such as color, equipment, options, modifications, selling party, geographic location/environment. Your analysis in your recent post focused exclusively on mileage as the sole variable in valuation. I would simply propose that there are many variables on a used vehicle. I think you may be planning to add more of these other variables in your new chart, which is a step forward.

So, what is my SOLE ISSUE? Proliferation of worthless information.

There have been threads using non-completed ebay transactions (laughable), and threads using numbers and logic that just simply do not add up (anyone still looking for that mint $130,000 MY 2006 GT?). I feel that type of poor information is of limited use and doesn't bring any more owners to our site, just gives people unreasonable expectations.

I'm all for a good deal - I hope everyone gets their GT at the price they feel is appropriate. Proper research and information leads to the best negotiating power for us buyers, and allows for appropriate market expectations.

Do the transactions research, I certainly did. Just be sure to critically think about the source of the data, and what it truly represents. The better your data, the more helpful it will be to everyone. :thumbsup

I am looking forward to your new improved database. I'm glad that you are taking the time to listen to our concerns. I think we can all agree, that your initial attempt was a work in progress. I'm sure that many of us owners would love to buy a second GT, god, wife, and finances willing. Perhaps you will help us to do that. So, your task is undoubtedly noble - I was just worried about the steps you may have been taking.

SYCO GT –

I think we are pretty close based on what you said above. The only correction is that I only use completed sales data for clear title cars.

I tend to be somewhat bullish on the value of these cars. I think they’ll hold their value if you keep the miles off. I also don’t think they’ll drop below $100K unless you find one with over 60K miles. I’ll stick with my $2 per mile depreciation as a mildly educated guess for now until I see differently. Some cars will sell for a better price and some for more. It’s just an estimate.

If you want to pay less than $140K for a GT, you should look for 1 with over 7K miles. Not too many have hit this number and if someone is driving the car that much, they probably really like the car and aren’t in a hurry to sell. As far as value, they seem to be wroth more than a Ferrari 360 and less than a Ferrari 430. Of course, they will also make more 430s than GTs.

There are several types of Ford GT fans:

1. People who have always wanted a GT40 but couldn’t afford one. They will probably keep the car a long time.
2. Ford fans that want the highest performance product Ford has ever made. If they’ll pay $200K for a Shelby GT500 then why not a Ford GT? Another group of long time owners.
3. American car fans who will probably sell the Ford GT once Corvette or Viper comes out with 600+hp cars.
4. Sports car fans who’ll keep the car until Ferrari, Lamborghini or Porsche markets something better than the GT (It will be a few more years).

To put this in Prospective; How many on this list lust for any 10 year old sports car (around 1995)? Of course, the F40 and F50 come to mind but the GT isn’t in that League as a milestone car. In 8 years the GT will be the same to its decade that the Ferrari 355 was to the 1990s. Of course, to the Ford faithful, and GT40 fans, it will always be the best car available. To everyone else, it will just be an old exotic that you buy when you can’t afford the new Ferrari 4xx or Lamborghini whatever.

Now let’s go out 20 years. What car built in the 1980s is still that cool? I would think of the Ferrari GTO but once again the Ford GT is in much greater numbers and not the great advance of the GTO. Does anyone here lust for an 1980s Ferrari besides the GTO?

Unfortunately, I fall into category #1. I’ve always wanted a GT40 and tried to fill the hole with a Pantera and then an NSX. This means that for me the only cure is the Ford GT. Given that I can’t quite yet pay cash for a Ford GT, I need to continue saving. I probably have no choice but to buy a used car with 30K miles. That should bring the price to around $110K and a number I can pay cash for. Of course, I have no crystal ball and will have to wait and watch the market. If the price stops dropping at some point, then I’ll perhaps need to buy a 360 Spyder. Only time will tell. In the mean time, congratulations on having the greatest car in the world.

 

[TEXAS GT]

SYCO GT – In 8 years the GT will be the same to its decade that the Ferrari 355 was to the 1990s. Of course, to the Ford faithful, and GT40 fans, it will always be the best car available. To everyone else, it will just be an old exotic that you buy when you can’t afford the new Ferrari 4xx or Lamborghini whatever./QUOTE]

I disagree. The Ferrari's and Lambo's are continually evolving and improving. That's why owners sell their outdated model and buy the new and improved latest version which drives down the resale value of the outdated model. It's like riding an old shovelhead Harley when the Evo engine came out. You have to move up and that drives down the value of last years model.

The Ford is a one off model. There will be no more "new and improved versions" to buy. It will be many years (if ever) before technology advances enough to affect the value of this car. This alone should be enough to help it keep it's value. Mileage and condition will be the main determining factors in future value.

 

[cfra7]

SYCO GT – In 8 years the GT will be the same to its decade that the Ferrari 355 was to the 1990s. Of course, to the Ford faithful, and GT40 fans, it will always be the best car available. To everyone else, it will just be an old exotic that you buy when you can’t afford the new Ferrari 4xx or Lamborghini whatever./QUOTE]

I disagree. The Ferrari's and Lambo's are continually evolving and improving. That's why owners sell their outdated model and buy the new and improved latest version which drives down the resale value of the outdated model. It's like riding an old shovelhead Harley when the Evo engine came out. You have to move up and that drives down the value of last years model.

The Ford is a one off model. There will be no more "new and improved versions" to buy. It will be many years (if ever) before technology advances enough to affect the value of this car. This alone should be enough to help it keep it's value. Mileage and condition will be the main determining factors in future value.

I’ll need to respectfully disagree unless you can show some examples of this happening in the last 20 years in the approximate volumes that the GT is produced. Please note that I’m speaking in general and not for every case. I predict that in 10 years 80% of the Ford GTs will be on their 2nd owners as new more interesting products are released and the GT slowly falls behind the Porsche, Viper, Corvette, Ferrari and Lambo in performance.

The closest example that I can come up with is the NSX. There is around 9,000 in the US compared to about 4,000 Ford GTs. There were less than 1000 of the final body style imported into the US. Honda has stopped production and nothing like it is being produced by any Asian car company. However, they continue to depreciate as miles are put on the cars. The NSX was the car to have when it arrived in 1991 outperforming the Ferrari 348 and at a lower price (Somewhat like the GT compared to the 430).

Now I know you are saying “how dare you” compare an NSX to a GT. It’s just as valid a comparison as a GT to a 430. Honda doesn’t have the image of Ford nor does Ford have the image of Ferrari. I’m open to better examples but that is the one that came to mind. In fact, compared to Ferrari’s same year offering, the original NSX offered a bigger performance/comfort gap when compared to the same year offering by Ferrari than does the GT.

Please note that I’m not putting down the GT. I think it’s a wonderful car and I envy the current owners but I have seen no reasonable data to indicate that it won’t follow the normal Ferrari depreciate curve. In fact, most people would rather own a 430 as opposed to a GT. That’s why 430s are selling for more even though they are produced in greater number. That’s why when the next Ferrari comes out, many will follow it up the performance and styling food chain. I also agree that some people will keep their Ford GT for 20 or even 30 years but this will be the minority. People get board with things and will need a new fix. They then pass the old toy along to those who value it less or can’t afford more. Some people won’t even keep it a year.

I’m sure that the % of people on this site still driving an exotic that they’ve owned for more than 10 years is very small. Most people believe that when they buy their new toy that they have reached sports car perfection. You see that on the Viper page, the Z06 page and the NSX page and the Ferrari page. However, if you check back in 10 years you’ll find that is rarely the case and after a few years they move on selling for the current market value.

 

[SYCO GT]

I think far more first time owners will hold on to the Ford GT over the next 10 years than cfra has stated. There is no replacement for the Ford GT.

Once you become an owner, and I hope that you do, you may find it difficult to refer to the Ford GT as a toy. It is much more than that. Sure, it is a helluva lot of fun, but it's no mere plaything.

Anyway, I think, and most will agree, that the Honda/Acura NSX main weakness was that the horsepower has always been considered somewhat lacking, even at inception. Now, most will agree that the NSX is underpowered from the factory, to the point of extinction, amongst the current crop of supercars.

 

[BlackICE]

If an NSX had 500 hp and a few suspension tweaks, it would be a very competitive with the cars of today.

Now a GT with 700+ hp with be competitive with future production cars for many years to come! Just bolt on the Whipple or get a TT GT.

BlackICE

 

[cfra7]

I think far more first time owners will hold on to the Ford GT over the next 10 years than cfra has stated. There is no replacement for the Ford GT.

Once you become an owner, and I hope that you do, you may find it difficult to refer to the Ford GT as a toy. It is much more than that. Sure, it is a helluva lot of fun, but it's no mere plaything.

Anyway, I think, and most will agree, that the Honda/Acura NSX main weakness was that the horsepower has always been considered somewhat lacking, even at inception. Now, most will agree that the NSX is underpowered from the factory, to the point of extinction, amongst the current crop of supercars.

You may just be right. Thanks for the intelligent conversation. You provide excellent insight.

 

[SYCO GT]

You may just be right. Thanks for the intelligent conversation. You provide excellent insight.

No one really knows where values are headed. The only thing we can do for sure, is do our best to find and drive cars that inspire and excite us. Life's too short to spend doing something you don't like.

Thanks also for the spirited dialogue. If we didn't care what other people thought, we wouldn't need or want the forum.

I'm learning too. I think we all just get fired up occasionally, since many of us are very passionate about our GT's. :thumbsup

 

[dbk]

Nothing to get fired up about.

You either do or don't own a GT. Until you do, have fun speculating.

 

[cfra7]

Nothing to get fired up about.

You either do or don't own a GT. Until you do, have fun speculating.

Very elitist statement.

Elitism is the belief or attitude that the people who are considered to be the elite — a selected group of persons with outstanding personal abilities, wealth, specialised training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are the people whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously, or that these are persons whose views should be regarded as carrying the most weight, or, more simply, these people are best fit to govern or whose views and/or actions are mostly likely to be constructive.

 

[dbk]

Nothing elitist about stating the obvious. You can also divide people into other groups of two: those who do or do not own Kia Spectras, those who do or do not play basketball in the NBA, those who do or do not live in Arizona. See? And on a website for car owners, you can divide it into the people who do and don't own said vehicle.

 

[Spirit]

Types of People

Nothing elitist about stating the obvious. You can also divide people into other groups of two: those who do or do not own Kia Spectras, those who do or do not play basketball in the NBA, those who do or do not live in Arizona. See? And on a website for car owners, you can divide it into the people who do and don't own said vehicle.

Hey Dave,
I always thought there were only two types of people, Texans and Everyone Else.:biggrin

 

[dbk]

Hey Dave,
I always thought there were only two types of people, Texans and Everyone Else.:biggrin

This is also true. I was born in Texas, does that count?

 

[Spirit]

You Betch'a !!

This is also true. I was born in Texas, does that count?

YOU BETCH'A !!

ONCE A TEXAN - ALWAYS A TEXAN!!

Always knew you were one of them "GOOD GUYS".

Keep Up The Good Works.

Fred

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
- Samuel Johnson

 

[cfra7]

Nothing elitist about stating the obvious. You can also divide people into other groups of two: those who do or do not own Kia Spectras, those who do or do not play basketball in the NBA, those who do or do not live in Arizona. See? And on a website for car owners, you can divide it into the people who do and don't own said vehicle.

Given my statements, the division would more appropriately be those who have eBay accounts and those who don’t. I’m only quoting EBay data. I’m not commenting on how the car handles or any aspect of the car that only an owner would have knowledge of. I would have hoped for a little better attitude towards posting data.

I’m just following the example set by CENTERPUNCH http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1851/pages/9/index.htm who inspired me to track the data after he quit upon purchasing a GT. Of course at that point he was mainly showing that the markup over MSRP was dropping. I’m sure if you were a GT owner back then you were sending him nasty letters saying how he shouldn’t post such data until he owned a GT. You probably also argued that everyone should pay the dealer markup of $50K to $100K because the cars were worth much more than that.

I’ve said nothing negative about the GT or their owners, I only quoted some price data. Lighten up. If you don’t care, then don’t bother to post an attack response.

 

[FlorIdaho Chris]

Nothing elitist about stating the obvious. You can also divide people into other groups of two: those who do or do not own Kia Spectras, those who do or do not play basketball in the NBA, those who do or do not live in Arizona. See? And on a website for car owners, you can divide it into the people who do and don't own said vehicle.

+1

 

[Spirit]

What It Is

Given my statements, the division would more appropriately be those who have eBay accounts and those who don’t. I’m only quoting EBay data. I’m not commenting on how the car handles or any aspect of the car that only an owner would have knowledge of. I would have hoped for a little better attitude towards posting data.

I’m just following the example set by CENTERPUNCH http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1851/pages/9/index.htm who inspired me to track the data after he quit upon purchasing a GT. Of course at that point he was mainly showing that the markup over MSRP was dropping. I’m sure if you were a GT owner back then you were sending him nasty letters saying how he shouldn’t post such data until he owned a GT. You probably also argued that everyone should pay the dealer markup of $50K to $100K because the cars were worth much more than that.

I’ve said nothing negative about the GT or their owners, I only quoted some price data. Lighten up. If you don’t care, then don’t bother to post an attack response.

cfra7,
You may be over reacting a bit.
I really don't think anyone is "attacking" you or your statements.
It's just a case of opinions, we all have them, and all are free to express them.
As I am sure you have noticed, there is quite a bit of "fun'in" each other going on within this fourm.
This is a great place to both discuss and learn about our favorite car.
Please see it for what it is.
Keep up your search, and you will find the car of your dreams.

Fred

P.S. Don't settle for less than your dreams.

"Man, when you lose your laugh you lose your footing."
Ken Kesey