Halfshaft Bolt Answers (all threads merged)
- Thread starter dbk
- Start date
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analogdesigner
GT Owner
New design coming soon...
Sorry for the late response. I have some designs that will be computer analyzed by this weekend. I am calling Ricardo late tonight in an attempt to purchase some replacement parts.
There are other forum members with good ideas because they understand the cause of the problem.
Thanks,
Jay
(949) 366-1211
www.gtsaver.com
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34
Hi Brian,
Sorry for the late response. I have some designs that will be computer analyzed by this weekend. I am calling Ricardo late tonight in an attempt to purchase some replacement parts.
There are other forum members with good ideas because they understand the cause of the problem.
Thanks,
Jay
(949) 366-1211
www.gtsaver.com
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34
Gimbal
GT Owner
Hi Dave or DBK. I have to disagree that if the shaft comes loose it is not a saftey issue. It is an extreme saftey issue for sure. As I was pulling out into traffic this morning I was really hoping my axle did not break so that the giant truck coming at me would not slam into me if I got stuck powerless in his lane! Ford should take this issue to the top of their list of things to fix before someone dies!
glord
GT Owner
Memo from Ford to dealers re: Half Shaft Bolts
I'm not sure if there have already been previous posts on this but I just had a conversation with my dealer and he informed me that he just received a memo from Ford stating that Ford would only approve warranty replacement of the bolts should they actually fail.
Also of note is that according to the dealer the "new" bolts are no different than the original parts. He said that according to his sources the part number changed only because the parts are now being bundled under a single part number.
Given the fact that the bolts have not changed, and given Ford's lack of willingness to authorize a proactive repair, would suggest that Ford does not yet have a viable fix.
At the point the best we can all do is to take steps to make sure we have an uncompromised, properly torqued setup. On our own nickel in most cases.
I'm not sure if there have already been previous posts on this but I just had a conversation with my dealer and he informed me that he just received a memo from Ford stating that Ford would only approve warranty replacement of the bolts should they actually fail.
Also of note is that according to the dealer the "new" bolts are no different than the original parts. He said that according to his sources the part number changed only because the parts are now being bundled under a single part number.
Given the fact that the bolts have not changed, and given Ford's lack of willingness to authorize a proactive repair, would suggest that Ford does not yet have a viable fix.
At the point the best we can all do is to take steps to make sure we have an uncompromised, properly torqued setup. On our own nickel in most cases.
H
HHGT
Guest
A Quote from Ricardo
This is a direct quote from Ricardo regarding the Trasaxles:
"I realise that these are not typical figures for replica cars, but in our
line of business we cannot afford to release anything that is not state of
the art." Did that include the half shaft porblem?
This quote was posted on the following link:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-powertrain-transaxles/10976-ricardo-transaxle.html
I also found the following threads posted on the same site. One of the interesting questions asked was the half shaft angle!
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tec...e-transaxle.html?highlight=half+shaft+failure
and
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tec...er-material.html?highlight=half+shaft+failure
This is a direct quote from Ricardo regarding the Trasaxles:
"I realise that these are not typical figures for replica cars, but in our
line of business we cannot afford to release anything that is not state of
the art." Did that include the half shaft porblem?
This quote was posted on the following link:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-powertrain-transaxles/10976-ricardo-transaxle.html
I also found the following threads posted on the same site. One of the interesting questions asked was the half shaft angle!
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tec...e-transaxle.html?highlight=half+shaft+failure
and
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tec...er-material.html?highlight=half+shaft+failure
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Interesting that the photo in the above link shows a single large bolt holding the flange to the transmission. I wonder why they deviated from what they knew worked. There most be some reason, and I doubt it was cost driven. There just can't be that much difference in cost.:confused
Craig
Craig
BlackICE
GT Owner
The two bolt attachment would cost more than one big bolt. There must have been a good reason for the additional cost.
BTW Craig, thanks for the Fe.
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HOGDEALER
GT Owner
This is a DRAG!!! I do not want to drive the car and get standed. I guess I will just park the car. Just another trailer queen.
AZGT
GT Owner
IMHO I'd be a little careful about going "public" with the axle bolt issue. Like one of the other members said, at the moment we have an "issue" to be solved. I would think lots of national publicity would do more to shy people away from the car (resale issue) than fixing the problem. Both Ford and Ricardo, and a lot of guys on this board, know about the problem and are trying to come up with solutions. It is only a matter of time, then the issue will be gone. Major publicity would hound the car even after the fix is in place - just like how we all hear about the a-arm problem that is no problem (in fact, the fix is even better looking than the "normal" a-arms). Sometimes it is better to keep "dirty little secrets" inside the family until the problem is solved.
Just a thought.
My esteemed colleagues,
Perhaps in parallel (I sincerely hope) to what Ford is doing to resolve the problem, I wanted to let everyone know that I am consulting with what is one of the top EXPERTS in the world when it comes to half-shaft and hub designs. This individual is founder and owner of a company that has been number one in their industry of supplying space-age, bleeding edge, half-shafts and hubs to Formula 1, CART, Champ and various other racing organizations. Both their engineering and manufacturing capability is truly state-of-the-art and perhaps literally without peers. The owner has been in the hub & half-shaft business for more than 40 years. He has seen it all.... and he is relied upon by many current Formula 1 teams to continue to push the envelope. I honestly believe that if Ford and/or Ricardo developed a list of 3 people in the world to consult with on the problem and fix, he'd be on the list. No doubt. Ironically, he is also an owner of a Blue/White '05 GT and until I met with him, he had never heard of the problem. (Unfortunately he’s not a member of this great forum.)
Anyway, we met for over 3 hours last week with many pictures, descriptions, and experiences that I had captured from these forums. He has been a friend of mine for several years but only recently did the increasingly dimmer light bulb in my head click on to make the connection.
He is not an arrogant man, nor is he a man to condemn other designs or presume to be "all knowing". However, he believes he "sees" and understands the problem and why it is occurring. He asked me to look and gather some additional measurements from my car after I returned home - and all seemed to be fully supportive of what his failure assumptions were.
Frankly, this is the easy part and I have no doubt that Ford/Ricardo is already "there" too in understanding why the problem is occurring. A more difficult problem is determining a resolution that can be retrofitted to cars in service without requiring removal of the transaxle. Even more complicated than this is having a fix that will work with all cars when there is likely car to car tolerance variations. So, for example, he is relatively confident to be able to develop a solution based on the tolerances for my car... but we may likely need to have some other cars to guinea pig to know if a solution has broad applicability.
With the constraints of not requiring transaxle removal/dis-assembly and with finding a broadly applicable solution (in contrast to a single car fix), the resolution is not going to be easy. The good news is that he is on-board to help. Other good news is that he often consults with a semi-retired individual who is a household name in Formula 1 engineering circles. A legend. He is roping him in too to have a look.
Both individuals are “contributing” out of the kindness of their hearts and because they are enthusiasts like ourselves.
Any progress we may make on the topic is on hold for one week as my contact is out of the Country on a hunting expedition. I hope to have more to report within a couple of weeks and I will keep everyone abreast of our progress. Once again, I sincerely hope that this effort – with literally the top experts in the world is in parallel with what Ford/Ricardo may already be doing.
I have hesitated to post or say anything because I am reluctant to set expectations. Anything is possible including the fall-out of these participants…. for any number of reasons – their schedule, legal issues, etc.
I wanted to provide this update, however, to say that the pursuit of ARP bolts as a singular resolution is on hold. I have no doubt that superior fasteners will be needed in an eventual overall solution, but I no longer want to distribute bolts as a viable singular fix.
I will keep the group updated on our progress and in the interim perhaps Ford, Jay, or John (Accufab) may have a resolution or alternative available. The good thing is that there are a lot of people working on this – and I have the utmost confidence and respect for the experts I have contacted.
More – as soon as I have it.
Perhaps in parallel (I sincerely hope) to what Ford is doing to resolve the problem, I wanted to let everyone know that I am consulting with what is one of the top EXPERTS in the world when it comes to half-shaft and hub designs. This individual is founder and owner of a company that has been number one in their industry of supplying space-age, bleeding edge, half-shafts and hubs to Formula 1, CART, Champ and various other racing organizations. Both their engineering and manufacturing capability is truly state-of-the-art and perhaps literally without peers. The owner has been in the hub & half-shaft business for more than 40 years. He has seen it all.... and he is relied upon by many current Formula 1 teams to continue to push the envelope. I honestly believe that if Ford and/or Ricardo developed a list of 3 people in the world to consult with on the problem and fix, he'd be on the list. No doubt. Ironically, he is also an owner of a Blue/White '05 GT and until I met with him, he had never heard of the problem. (Unfortunately he’s not a member of this great forum.)
Anyway, we met for over 3 hours last week with many pictures, descriptions, and experiences that I had captured from these forums. He has been a friend of mine for several years but only recently did the increasingly dimmer light bulb in my head click on to make the connection.
He is not an arrogant man, nor is he a man to condemn other designs or presume to be "all knowing". However, he believes he "sees" and understands the problem and why it is occurring. He asked me to look and gather some additional measurements from my car after I returned home - and all seemed to be fully supportive of what his failure assumptions were.
Frankly, this is the easy part and I have no doubt that Ford/Ricardo is already "there" too in understanding why the problem is occurring. A more difficult problem is determining a resolution that can be retrofitted to cars in service without requiring removal of the transaxle. Even more complicated than this is having a fix that will work with all cars when there is likely car to car tolerance variations. So, for example, he is relatively confident to be able to develop a solution based on the tolerances for my car... but we may likely need to have some other cars to guinea pig to know if a solution has broad applicability.
With the constraints of not requiring transaxle removal/dis-assembly and with finding a broadly applicable solution (in contrast to a single car fix), the resolution is not going to be easy. The good news is that he is on-board to help. Other good news is that he often consults with a semi-retired individual who is a household name in Formula 1 engineering circles. A legend. He is roping him in too to have a look.
Both individuals are “contributing” out of the kindness of their hearts and because they are enthusiasts like ourselves.
Any progress we may make on the topic is on hold for one week as my contact is out of the Country on a hunting expedition. I hope to have more to report within a couple of weeks and I will keep everyone abreast of our progress. Once again, I sincerely hope that this effort – with literally the top experts in the world is in parallel with what Ford/Ricardo may already be doing.
I have hesitated to post or say anything because I am reluctant to set expectations. Anything is possible including the fall-out of these participants…. for any number of reasons – their schedule, legal issues, etc.
I wanted to provide this update, however, to say that the pursuit of ARP bolts as a singular resolution is on hold. I have no doubt that superior fasteners will be needed in an eventual overall solution, but I no longer want to distribute bolts as a viable singular fix.
I will keep the group updated on our progress and in the interim perhaps Ford, Jay, or John (Accufab) may have a resolution or alternative available. The good thing is that there are a lot of people working on this – and I have the utmost confidence and respect for the experts I have contacted.
More – as soon as I have it.
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
I'm going to submit a thought that's been rattling in my head with regard to this pblm for some time now. (It's the reason I asked the guys with the "breaks" whether their cars had "even" or "uneven" gaps.)
Is it possible that a "shift" occured in the casting mold for the tranny cases at some point, which went "undetected" long enough to have several trannies "in the pipeline" before this was discovered? This might account for the "uneven gaps" found on some of these cars... and the fact that<!% of the cars APPEAR to have the "bolt" pblm. ALL the internal pieces - gears, shafts, etc. - should have identical measurements from piece to piece. Therefore, what else would explain why identical parts put in Tranny "A" yield "even" 'gaps ...and these same parts in tranny "B" yeild "UNEVEN" gaps"?
The two people(!) who responded to the thread asking for "even"/"uneven" gap info (from guys who's cars had had the bolt pblm), said THEIR cars had the "uneven gaps".
I'm wondering if the maybe the "even gap" cars my be immune from the pblm. ('Admittedly "wishful thinking" as my car has the "even" gaps!)
That's my $.02 .
Is it possible that a "shift" occured in the casting mold for the tranny cases at some point, which went "undetected" long enough to have several trannies "in the pipeline" before this was discovered? This might account for the "uneven gaps" found on some of these cars... and the fact that<!% of the cars APPEAR to have the "bolt" pblm. ALL the internal pieces - gears, shafts, etc. - should have identical measurements from piece to piece. Therefore, what else would explain why identical parts put in Tranny "A" yield "even" 'gaps ...and these same parts in tranny "B" yeild "UNEVEN" gaps"?
The two people(!) who responded to the thread asking for "even"/"uneven" gap info (from guys who's cars had had the bolt pblm), said THEIR cars had the "uneven gaps".
I'm wondering if the maybe the "even gap" cars my be immune from the pblm. ('Admittedly "wishful thinking" as my car has the "even" gaps!)
That's my $.02 .
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FlorIdaho Chris
Yeah, I've got one.
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Interesting calculation to make, what percent of the 4038 car have had failures?
What percent of the owners come to this forum?
What percent of the owners come to this forum?
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B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Thanks Chris,
Some of us may recall a person who came on this forum to gather information for books and articles he wrote. Previously he wrote a book full of inaccuracies that were identified by experts prior to publication. He produced an article about the Ford GT and the early production issues that where long resolved months before the article appeared. This writer was nota friend of the GT community or Ford.
Please, read AzGT (Larry's) call for cool heads. I think we are very close to getting some answers.
KMCBOSS
RED GT owner
Half shaft washers and bolts
I had my half shaft washers and bolts replaced on Thursday. My GT 06-0364only has 300 miles on it but didn't want to take a chance. The original washers were the dark colored hardened (heat treated) washers. There was no evidence of over torquing and deformation of the washer and the screws had thread locker on them. The new washers from the kit appear to be of the same type as originally installed on the car. I have included a pic of PL*JEFFs broken bolts and washer. Apparently his bolts broke at about the 7000 mile mark. Jeffs washers were the heat treated variety also and weren't deformed but both bolts broke where the threads meet the head. I suspect this is the result of an over torque condition.
I had my half shaft washers and bolts replaced on Thursday. My GT 06-0364only has 300 miles on it but didn't want to take a chance. The original washers were the dark colored hardened (heat treated) washers. There was no evidence of over torquing and deformation of the washer and the screws had thread locker on them. The new washers from the kit appear to be of the same type as originally installed on the car. I have included a pic of PL*JEFFs broken bolts and washer. Apparently his bolts broke at about the 7000 mile mark. Jeffs washers were the heat treated variety also and weren't deformed but both bolts broke where the threads meet the head. I suspect this is the result of an over torque condition.
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- Aug 25, 2006
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BlackICE
GT Owner
Cools heads, yes, I don't think Autoweek would get the story right. Note that anything and everything on this forum is public knowledge too. As far as answers to the problem, I think many people are working on it, but I don't except an official word from Ford on it anytime soon. I hope I am wrong. I do expect something from the GT community though.
Reminds me of the "V" tail Bonanza problem of the mid eighties. The tail developed flutter, resulting in catastrophic failure (not good in an airplane :ack). The result was a crashing of the Bonanza market and airplanes. I should have purchased one, as 6 months later Bonanza came up with a fix that was simple and only cost about $200, installed. The market bounced right back. A similar event occurred with the Piper Malibu a few years later, again I should have bought one.
Craig
Gulf GT
GT Owner
Hmmmm, an opportunity.... Maybe I should pay for a full page ad in the New York Times, drive the price down on GT's, then buy a 100 of them next month.:cheers
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