Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
They probably were factoring in the $10K diff or so in sticker prices...and maybe the "A" arm thing.
But regardless, in the "real world" there is no price diff IMO.
Hagerty value for the Heritage!
- Thread starter FBA
- Start date
They probably were factoring in the $10K diff or so in sticker prices...and maybe the "A" arm thing.
But regardless, in the "real world" there is no price diff IMO.
steved57
GT Owner
For you guys with $850.00 to $900.00 a year do you mind if I ask what value is on your car at this price as I am paying about double that and it is with my agent who has my house and all my other cars and motorcycles too
Xcentric
GT Owner
There may be a bubble forming, but often bubbles are just markets getting a little ahead of themselves. I have to believe that the GT has a lot more than just its total awesomeness going for it in the long term.
For one thing, demographics. Baby boomers (who also own many of the GTs) are aging and even though we are trying to spend savings, most of us will leave a lot of inheritance when we start kicking the bucket. Younger generations will be enriched by our deaths. I saw this happening in Germany as the WWII generation, who, like the depression-era generation, were frugal and passed a lot of wealth on to the next generation. Which, to a large extent, is why so many younger people in Germany are driving Porsches and MBs.
For another thing, every generation now living thinks the GT is totally awesome. This is different than the hot rod generation, or the muscle car generation, or the tuner generation. Everywhere I go, teens and pre-teens are schooling their dads (many of whom are clueless, but still awed) on the GT. Kids tell me the GT is their favorite car in car race video games. This is not isolated geographically, culturally, or socio-economically. These generations are going to carry the love of the GT forward, just as us old farts carried the experience of the GT40s forward.
Further, GTs are almost invariably well cared for and, because they are nearly bullet-proof, a high percentage of those not wrecked will still be in great shape in 20-30 years. At which time, they will still turn heads.
And...there will never again be anything like the GT.
So, IMO, no matter what you pay today, in the long term it will be a great investment.
That said, I don't care what happens to the value, because I just want to drive it.
BTW, how do you have half of a bubble?
P.S. $1,700 with Allstate, which also has my home and other vehicles. And no annual mileage limit, which is one reason I dropped Hagerty, which was charging me $3K for 2,500 mile limit. Rates are highly variable based on location.
For one thing, demographics. Baby boomers (who also own many of the GTs) are aging and even though we are trying to spend savings, most of us will leave a lot of inheritance when we start kicking the bucket. Younger generations will be enriched by our deaths. I saw this happening in Germany as the WWII generation, who, like the depression-era generation, were frugal and passed a lot of wealth on to the next generation. Which, to a large extent, is why so many younger people in Germany are driving Porsches and MBs.
For another thing, every generation now living thinks the GT is totally awesome. This is different than the hot rod generation, or the muscle car generation, or the tuner generation. Everywhere I go, teens and pre-teens are schooling their dads (many of whom are clueless, but still awed) on the GT. Kids tell me the GT is their favorite car in car race video games. This is not isolated geographically, culturally, or socio-economically. These generations are going to carry the love of the GT forward, just as us old farts carried the experience of the GT40s forward.
Further, GTs are almost invariably well cared for and, because they are nearly bullet-proof, a high percentage of those not wrecked will still be in great shape in 20-30 years. At which time, they will still turn heads.
And...there will never again be anything like the GT.
So, IMO, no matter what you pay today, in the long term it will be a great investment.
That said, I don't care what happens to the value, because I just want to drive it.
BTW, how do you have half of a bubble?
P.S. $1,700 with Allstate, which also has my home and other vehicles. And no annual mileage limit, which is one reason I dropped Hagerty, which was charging me $3K for 2,500 mile limit. Rates are highly variable based on location.
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mopar
GT Owner
243
243800.00 they had a agent come out and they gave a that I paid 220000.00 1852 miles in dec 2013
243800.00 they had a agent come out and they gave a that I paid 220000.00 1852 miles in dec 2013
A lot of people from the early days remember the downward pricing mania that was heavily influenced by Centerpunch's site. I never really got on board with the methodology of fordgtprices.com because I don't think eBay auctions, completed or otherwise, are a particularly precise gauge of what is really happening in the exotic car market. That's not to say it wasn't accurate as far as the general trend, because it certainly was. Near the end of production, GT prices were soft and getting softer. A lot of people paid well below MSRP. There's no question that dealers were presented with a list of prices from that site, said "oh damn!" and sold the car for cheaper than they otherwise might have. A number of people posted as much at the time and they should have been cutting Paul commission checks for it. As prices continued to decline and the price floor was a topic of discussion, a lot of owners tried to and did unload before they dropped further.
Fast forward to now, and I think Auction Mania, with an assist from collector car mag analysis, is doing the reverse. There's this drumbeat that the GT is inexorably on the march towards $1 mil within a decade. While the GT is certainly about as certain a bet to go up long term as you can get with a car, the prices for certain variants have already gone up a comical amount in a short period of time, and in my opinion it's exceedingly unlikely that they continue that trend. As an example, asking prices for a low-mile, 1 of 4,000 unit, ~$160k Ford GT are nearing (and in some cases exceeding depending on the paint scheme) those of a 1 of 1,300 unit $440k Carrera GT. The GT is awesome but it's hard to rationalize it being worth the same as a carbon tub Porsche super car with a truly race-bred V10. There's really only one way to find out, so we'll just have to revisit in a year.
Either way, there's no question the GT makes a great piece of art sitting in the garage, so whether you're driving it or just admiring it, it's a good value for the soul. I can see the value of having a wrapper car just for the joy of it, or a driver to wring out relentlessly. Or if you're lucky like some of these guys, you have 4-5-6, and you're just waiting to unwrap the next one when you've driven the last one enough. I just wouldn't get too caught up in it as an investment.
Fast forward to now, and I think Auction Mania, with an assist from collector car mag analysis, is doing the reverse. There's this drumbeat that the GT is inexorably on the march towards $1 mil within a decade. While the GT is certainly about as certain a bet to go up long term as you can get with a car, the prices for certain variants have already gone up a comical amount in a short period of time, and in my opinion it's exceedingly unlikely that they continue that trend. As an example, asking prices for a low-mile, 1 of 4,000 unit, ~$160k Ford GT are nearing (and in some cases exceeding depending on the paint scheme) those of a 1 of 1,300 unit $440k Carrera GT. The GT is awesome but it's hard to rationalize it being worth the same as a carbon tub Porsche super car with a truly race-bred V10. There's really only one way to find out, so we'll just have to revisit in a year.
Either way, there's no question the GT makes a great piece of art sitting in the garage, so whether you're driving it or just admiring it, it's a good value for the soul. I can see the value of having a wrapper car just for the joy of it, or a driver to wring out relentlessly. Or if you're lucky like some of these guys, you have 4-5-6, and you're just waiting to unwrap the next one when you've driven the last one enough. I just wouldn't get too caught up in it as an investment.
Sinovac
GT Owner
As much as I love the GT, I would have a hard time not taking such an enormous profit on a Heritage GT, had I bought one at a sane price. It's hard to ignore the fact that you can sell a Heritage, but another GT, and pocket $100k.
On another note, my daily driver insurer cancelled my policy on the GT, stating the value exceeded their guidelines. I suspect we will see more of this.
On another note, my daily driver insurer cancelled my policy on the GT, stating the value exceeded their guidelines. I suspect we will see more of this.
bonehead
GT Owner
I didn't even think of this as a possibility, but I suppose it makes sense. May I ask who your carrier was and who else you are considering?
Sinovac
GT Owner
21st Century, but they really should be named The Dark Ages. In any event, I don't think many carriers really know what they are dealing with at this point.
GKW05GT
GT Owner
I have all my insurance with them and it is insured for 'full replacement cost". It would probably be a fight but my agent has seen and photographed my car and I keep documented auction results and hopefully Shelby or Marv could provide actual sales figures in case of a claim. I guess you never know until you have a claim.
GT35065
GT Owner
Mine is insured with State Farm for replacement cost. They have a lot of business from me, but I don't think that matters one iota. Whatever an "iota" is. I'm sure the rate is a function of their claims on these cars, which must be quite low so far.
Sinovac
GT Owner
Xcentric
GT Owner
$100k for a paint job that FoMoCo has no ties to is bubblicious. I agree with Sinovac, but if I had a Heritage paint GT it would be because it was the paint I wanted, so I'd be reluctant to sell and accept a 2nd choice. Funny how it works out, but almost everyone who has a GT thinks their color is the best color. As it should be.
Pity the poor guys who have one in every color. Can't make up their minds!
Pity the poor guys who have one in every color. Can't make up their minds!
GKW05GT
GT Owner
Tastes change and maybe just because I don't have own a Heritage, I think this large gap in price will probably become closer in the future. I love the paint scheme and it was a large option cost but with 343 +- made it is hard to understand the difference in todays value.
So tell me then, what makes a Ferrari 275 worth 40+ mil? It's far from awesome, doesn't even come close to a GT40 in performance and quite far from a timeless design; just more rare than the GT. It isn't a real race-bred carbon tub CGT either. Duesenberg's and Bugatti's are at least spectacular cars to own, look at, and drive, but even they aren't 40+ million $.
I'm not saying the FGT is worth that - as clearly, it's not, but I can easily see them hitting a mil before hitting a wall; within 10 years or perhaps even less. I don't think it's a "bubble" car. I think as long as the demand is there (and I believe that will not change) - the price will continue to escalate. I have however noticed that market pricing is driven by the big 4 auctions...most clearly that in fact. Each time a GT sells at one of these auctions, the prices on Ebay go up the same week, and they just keep moving up from there. I think the higher and escalating prices are here to stay, but I could be wrong. I don't think anyone will be able to drive the prices down, as was once the case. Also remember that where other performance cars are plentiful from the many overseas exoctic car manufacturers, there were only 2 Ford's that made it to the supercar category...and of that - really only one; the GT. So there is a uniqueness about the GT in that it's the only production car Ford ever produced that's in the same class as some of the most expensive production supercars in the world. In fact, at 160k, it rivaled and continues to rival cars 3-5 times its initial selling price. I'd expect to pay 3-4 times the GT's original selling price for a Lambo or a Ferrari or a McLaren, or a CGT...but I wouldn't expect to buy a car for 160k that can compete solidly against these half-mil super cars in terms of style, design and performance. Imagine too, that it's just a run-of-the-mil 5.4 liter V8...with a lot of power and very high reliability! The same can't be said for many of these 500K+ cars...fancy Italian engines that cost more than a GT and are less than half as reliable, or better yet, 200k+ Porsches with an engine recall where every single one needs to be replaced.
Xcentric
GT Owner
10 years later, we have GTs still setting performance records. Mark Heidaker and team, take a bow.
Apples and oranges.
I certainly don't think anyone will ever be able to drive the prices down the way fordgtprices.com did, but the old price decline reminds me of the current price rise in the way that it was self-fulfilling prophecy (before ultimately settling at a market value determined by simpler economics). Everyone knew there was a finite supply of about 4,000, it looked great, and it compared favorably with foreign competitors. Yet because the popular sentiment was that GTs were tanking and prominent resources amplified that view....GTs were tanking. Now, driven helpfully by the aforementioned auctions, there's a lot of momentum behind the notion they are going up, up, up and they've done so dramatically. I'm not really saying they are going down, but my opinion is that the rocketship will run out of fuel sooner rather than later.
Joehand1
Tungsten GT Owner
I agree Dave that there is a limit to the price...but last week as I contemplated selling my GT for about 50k more than I paid for it 6.5 years ago...I realized that the cash would just sit in a money market account at close to 0% interest..
I don't know where the value is headed, but I opted to keep mine for now...I also doubt the values drop much in the future because of foreign demand.
Funny thing is as I checked the values on my old air cooled 1987 911 on Hagarty's site, I saw that percentage wise their values have increased more than the GTs in the past 6 months...
I have no idea why..
I don't know where the value is headed, but I opted to keep mine for now...I also doubt the values drop much in the future because of foreign demand.
Funny thing is as I checked the values on my old air cooled 1987 911 on Hagarty's site, I saw that percentage wise their values have increased more than the GTs in the past 6 months...
I have no idea why..
33Bravo
GT Owner
This is a very interesting discussion. Simple answer is a car is worth what someone will pay for it. But I think a more complete answer factors in the motivations of why someone will pay for it. Years ago, people were buying 308’s for $85K who didn’t know anything about 308’s. Was this a good idea? Financially if you could re-sell for $100K – I guess – yes… If you cashed in your retirement plan, and the market crashed – maybe not.
I probably am quite naive thinking that the majority of FGT buyers really appreciate the car for all the reasons stated. I’m sure there are those that are flipping cars – but it sure seems like a lot of us owners just love our GTs .
Having said that – the price increase is kind of sweet for owners. I look at it as the sprinkles on the icing on a pretty damn cool cake.
I probably am quite naive thinking that the majority of FGT buyers really appreciate the car for all the reasons stated. I’m sure there are those that are flipping cars – but it sure seems like a lot of us owners just love our GTs .
Having said that – the price increase is kind of sweet for owners. I look at it as the sprinkles on the icing on a pretty damn cool cake.