GT 200MPH Speed Day/Mojave Mile Update Thread

[Mullet]

When we did the GT Rally at TWS my car's temps were juuuuust below the red mark on the temp gauge. I was mainly using second gear so I shifted to third and did a lap which brought he temps down to where the needle was straight up.

Maybe it's because I have the stock SC and the TT.

Anyone else with a TT only that ran at TWS have their temps get close to the red mark?

 

[soroush]

Tom, a big thanks once again for putting this all together, enabling me to join the 200 club only a little Gen 1 Whipple. I live in CA the were the smog police are the most stringent in the nation. The only power adders that will "pass" here in CA are the FRPP pulley and tune and the Whipple.

IMO there is no debate, for the mile or any top speed run the TT systems are the best for the Ford GT. It was mind boggling to see all of the TTs cars put run after run at speeds well over 220 all day long. I am waiting for Soroush to add a 200+ shot to give those TT a run for their money.

A TT here in CA would get me into big registration problems.

I guess I don't have the "right" friends. :lol

working on it clinton! new set up in the works,

lets see if I can get it right come in may at beeville.

 

[Mullet]

working on it clinton! new set up in the works,

lets see if I can get it right come in may at beeville.

Looks we might have a pink tshirt bet again. Lol

 

[soroush]

Looks we might have a pink tshirt bet again. Lol

ok

 

[FordGT4fun]

once again it shows that this super performance car is bullet proof and the limit is not yet reach.
Way to go congratulations to all the speed junkies lol

 

[sandman]

Wow, we go from a thread celebrating the GT speed day to a vendor telling a member that he’s trying to “justify his set-up to himself or others”. Mr. Heffner, Ed is the last guy that would tell anyone that his way is the only way. It’s the way he chose and as far as I know he’s happy with it. He really doesn’t have to “justify” anything to you or me.

Another vendor questions Ed’s qualifications to talk about road courses. Ed has more racing experience on two and four wheels than most of the members on this forum.

I walked away from the weekend impressed with all of the cars no matter what set-up or make and also the group of people. Sadly it doesn’t carry over to the forum.

 

[nota4re]

I walked away from the weekend impressed with all of the cars no matter what set-up or make and also the group of people.

As did I - COMPLETELY. I think a few people were torqued (including me) when someone would say, "well, yeah, that setup is good for only one thing and my setup is the better all around car." Everyone has an opinion, and that's cool but I'd like to know more of what is behind such an assessment. I think Ed is a very experienced road racer and I respect his opinion a lot. In fact, with his experience as a road racer, I'm sure he has driven a turbo car a time or two and maybe didn't like the experience. But we all know that turbo cars are not created equal. To the best of my knowledege, many nay-sayers of the TT have never driven one, let alone had the opportunity to drive one on a track. As such, how can a blanket statement apply? Ironically, and I'm sorry to say that it is absolutely true, if a new client came up and asked me for a Whipple because he wanted to enter the car consistently in road race venues - I'd caution him against it. The overheating problem is a real one. Again, I am not trying to bash the Whipple. I have installed several of them and each time the owner has been tickled pink with the investment and performance. But, these aren't the clients that plan to road race the car.

I think we will all have a lot more data points after the next rally where there will certainly be a large population of performance-enhanced cars and it will be interesting to see how they all perform!

 

[BlackICE]

I would say for 95+% of the owners a stock FGT will be just as fast as one with any power adders of any kind for most road course with the exception of those with many long straightaways. The person behind the wheel being the limiting factor. I would bet that Roketman or Gene Martindale with a stock FGT will beat the pants off of almost any owner of a Whippled or TT FGT.

The heat soak issue is real, but can be addressed as the owner in New Zealand has done. I believe he endurance races his car. Note that most non-racing open track events have a limited time on the courses such that heat soak may not be a real issue.

For a road track with a lot of corners, how well the throttle is connected to the torque at the rear wheels makes the car easier to control and balance. IMO normally aspirated cars win here, followed by screw, or roots blowers and then by centrifugal blowers and turbos. Arguing which type is better is pointless. If you aren't racing, then whichever system gives you the most thrills and smiles is the right system for you. If you race, the rules dictate what you will run. What I have observed is every owner is all smiles when driving their FGT and especially the TT owners when they crack off those impressive 220+ runs, time after time.

Another point, dyno torque curve hardly tell the whole story, they don't tell anything about the dynamic torque output. e.g. Rev the car to 6000 close the throttle and let the RPMs drop to 4000, now go WOT. The torque response of a normal aspirated, blown and TT car will all be different.

 

[cobrar1339]

Wow, we go from a thread celebrating the GT speed day to a vendor telling a member that he’s trying to “justify his set-up to himself or others”. Mr. Heffner, Ed is the last guy that would tell anyone that his way is the only way. It’s the way he chose and as far as I know he’s happy with it. He really doesn’t have to “justify” anything to you or me.

Another vendor questions Ed’s qualifications to talk about road courses. Ed has more racing experience on two and four wheels than most of the members on this forum.

I walked away from the weekend impressed with all of the cars no matter what set-up or make and also the group of people. Sadly it doesn’t carry over to the forum.

The TT's were so darn impressive at this venue that is hard not to get your passion up if you are in that camp. I would not be too alarmed.
I agree Ed has plenty of track days and a bunch in a Turbo car ( Not a GT that I know of). But I will side with the poster that said give me an NA car for the road course. The turbos are super fun and just felt right in most every way. However, my old school experience (SVO, Rx7 TT Supra TT) with them in a competitive track environment is the reason I bought a NA Zo6 for a track dog.

These GT turbo systems may be way different, and are at least 12 years newer in in turbo mgmt ...that changes the game. But , for an old school racer, I like the predictability of the NA or the twin screw type induction. Until you have braked from 120 blipped and grabbed 2nd , then modulated the throttle through 2nd gear in a drift you can't really understand what I am saying. This was the weak spot for old school turbos. Personally, I am willing to go to school and look at the possibilities others have mentioned. Till actually experiencing that, the jury is out on that claim for me. I must say though that the mgmt systems Ryan showed me at the track are quite awesome. I am sill a bit giddy to think the turbo holy grail has been found. It"s really amazing what has been accomplished to date.

In the spirit of driving a turbo car of any make, I have to say they are the most fun and enjoyable cars out there. They just feel right, ("Woosh"). For the given purpose that brought this on though, 12 years ago I would be an NA guy without a doubt. I tried them all, Vortech, Kenne Bell, T3's, T4's, Esslingers. I gave up, and went NA and never had better days at the track. But I remain flexible and love the woosh in where I spend most of my seat time (fast track on the 91 fwy).

Miller's long config favors the TT, so those that are in doubt, don't be too surprised if traction holds and brakes are good, should be fun.

Congrats Again to all the GT owners who run what they brung at Mojave. From bone stock to TT you had the entire field green with envy on day 2.... and complete team support and real rooting on day 1 and 2. Kendall's thumbs up pic above shows the spirit and energy of the event from all the GT owners. While they may have been tweeking the a tape job, I can assure you everyone was listening and rooting for all the participants personal bests. Thanks again for a great weekend for all.

 

[ChipBeck]

Moderator's Note

Wow, we go from a thread celebrating the GT speed day to a vendor telling a member that he’s trying to “justify his set-up to himself or others”. Mr. Heffner, Ed is the last guy that would tell anyone that his way is the only way. It’s the way he chose and as far as I know he’s happy with it. He really doesn’t have to “justify” anything to you or me.

Another vendor questions Ed’s qualifications to talk about road courses. Ed has more racing experience on two and four wheels than most of the members on this forum.

I walked away from the weekend impressed with all of the cars no matter what set-up or make and also the group of people. Sadly it doesn’t carry over to the forum.

Gentlemen,

My first impulse is to delete several posts in this thread. But there is some good information here so I'll tone this conversation down by pointing a few things out.

1. Observations and opinions should be posted in the first person, "My favorite is....or....I like.

2. If a blanket definitive statement is made that other members disagree with, like....."XXXX is the best all around car"........you can expect to get differing opinions by others who disagree.

3. When you jump to the 3rd person and start calling other members out, like "you need to"...or "Mr. Heffner"....or "Ed".....it's all down hill from there. You don't like Ed's opinion being refuted by another member, so you do the same thing to Jason and finish by slamming the entire Forum. Uh, OK.

Passion for the cars, the people who build, maintain, & drive them, and for our friends drives this Forum. Post up what you know, or think you know, and be respectful of others comments and opinions. The best information will become obvious in short order.

Chip

 

[Heffner Performance]

Wow, we go from a thread celebrating the GT speed day to a vendor telling a member that he’s trying to “justify his set-up to himself or others”. Mr. Heffner, Ed is the last guy that would tell anyone that his way is the only way. It’s the way he chose and as far as I know he’s happy with it. He really doesn’t have to “justify” anything to you or me.

Another vendor questions Ed’s qualifications to talk about road courses. Ed has more racing experience on two and four wheels than most of the members on this forum.

I walked away from the weekend impressed with all of the cars no matter what set-up or make and also the group of people. Sadly it doesn’t carry over to the forum.

I would urge you to re read the thread because you have clearly overlooked a few key statements. We certainly did not go directly from celebrating the GT speed day to a vendor telling a member that he’s trying to “justify his set-up to himself or others”. As I see it we went from celebrating the GT speed day to another forum member attempting to minimize the accomplishments of the turbo cars by stating that basically the only thing turbo cars are any good at is mile racing and that Whipple cars are better on the street and on road race tracks and your turbo exhaust doesn't sound as cool as the Whipple cars to a vendor telling a member that he’s trying to “justify his set-up to himself or others”.

I can't understand for the life of me why nearly every time someone goes out and does something that they are proud of with their turbo car we have to end up having a supercharger / turbo debate. I promise you that if someone goes out with a supercharged car and goes 240 in the mile you will only see me congratulating them. What you won't see is me on the forum telling trying to reduce the significance of what they have accomplished or giving them my biased opinion on which car sounds cooler.

I have the utmost respect for Ed and felt that it seemed out of character for him to have made such a post. I have no hard feelings and as usual greatly look forward to having some great times with him and everyone else in Utah.

 

[911teo]

I have the utmost respect for Ed and felt that it seemed out of character for him to have made such a post.....

Maybe someone hijacked his login...... :lol

 

[soroush]

Maybe someone hijacked his login...... :lol

ya it was me

 

[tmcphail]

ya it was me

That sounds about right ha !

 

[nota4re]

For a road track with a lot of corners, how well the throttle is connected to the torque at the rear wheels makes the car easier to control and balance. IMO normally aspirated cars win here, followed by screw, or roots blowers and then by centrifugal blowers and turbos. Arguing which type is better is pointless. If you aren't racing, then whichever system gives you the most thrills and smiles is the right system for you. If you race, the rules dictate what you will run. What I have observed is every owner is all smiles when driving their FGT and especially the TT owners when they crack off those impressive 220+ runs, time after time.

I agree with all of this, Clinton. Well said. I think Rocketman is going to storm past nearly everbody in that measly Mustang pushing "only" 444 HP with a solid axle, no less. Sheesh! Big ass SC's or TT's aren't gonna help the mere mortals.

The heat soak issue is real, but can be addressed as the owner in New Zealand has done. I believe he endurance races his car. Note that most non-racing open track events have a limited time on the courses such that heat soak may not be a real issue.

I assure you that there a group of racers in socal all with GT's and Whipples and all are searching/experimneting with solutions to no avail as yet. Mind you, the warm track temps at Willow and Buttonwillow tend to amplify this problem. Also, perhaps you saw the white/blue TT at the Mojave mile event? (Same owner as the 458 and the Porsche.) He tracks all of his cars - HARD. Prior to the TT setup on the GT he had a Whipple. The car was unuseable on his home track (Spring Mountain) due to constant overheating and limp mode. Since switching to the TT - NO overheating issues... yet. Let's see after summer!

 

[BlackICE]

I assure you that there a group of racers in socal all with GT's and Whipples and all are searching/experimneting with solutions to no avail as yet. Mind you, the warm track temps at Willow and Buttonwillow tend to amplify this problem. Also, perhaps you saw the white/blue TT at the Mojave mile event? (Same owner as the 458 and the Porsche.) He tracks all of his cars - HARD. Prior to the TT setup on the GT he had a Whipple. The car was unuseable on his home track (Spring Mountain) due to constant overheating and limp mode. Since switching to the TT - NO overheating issues... yet. Let's see after summer!

In order of severity:

The 1st thing I would try is to minimize the percentage of coolant to water, maybe a 10 to 20% ratio with a bottle of water wetter rather than the 50%. Be sure to use the vacuum kit to refill the system. Second seal off the sides of the heat exchanger area so that all of the air coming into the front must exit out the hood vents and not leak.

Next you can remove the rear screens on the hood (I wouldn't do it for the street) , and have a 06 type front screen.

As you said for the TT system, lower the boost to a 15 lb pulley, you really don't need all of that power on the track. :biggrin

Remove your a/c condenser. :ack

 

[911teo]

In order of severity:

The 1st thing I would try is to minimize the percentage of coolant to water, maybe a 10 to 20% ratio with a bottle of water wetter rather than the 50%. Be sure to use the vacuum kit to refill the system. Second seal off the sides of the heat exchanger area so that all of the air coming into the front must exit out the hood vents and not leak.

Next you can remove the rear screens on the hood (I wouldn't do it for the street) , and have a 06 type front screen.

As you said for the TT system, lower the boost to a 15 lb pulley, you really don't need all of that power on the track. :biggrin

Remove your a/c condenser. :ack

I have run the Whipple 4.0L at LeMans, and Silverstone for 4 track days.... LeMans was 30C (98F ish), and Silverstone was 25C and had no issues.

Prior to that we swapped the 2 fans for race spec one, probably the ones Matech uses but I need to get back to you on those since I can't find the details in my records and David Jones (Mountune suggested the fix) is away right now.

On top of this they sealed the front air intake completely. If you take the nose off you will be able to see there are several ways the air could escape without going through the radiators....

The fans are VERY noisy (you can hear them over the Accufab at idle with windows up) and they do move a huge quantity of air (which can be annoying if you are planning on doing the occasional track day).

David is back next week and I will either get the details from him or will have him chip in directly.

Having said all this, if I was to build a race car off the FGT I would buy the Roush-Yates 5.0 Cammer engine and be done with it....

http://www.roushyatesparts.com/parts-p/m-6007-mrgt.htm

 

[soroush]

I have run the Whipple 4.0L at LeMans, and Silverstone for 4 track days.... LeMans was 30C (98F ish), and Silverstone was 25C and had no issues.

Prior to that we swapped the 2 fans for race spec one, probably the ones Matech uses but I need to get back to you on those since I can't find the details in my records and David Jones (Mountune suggested the fix) is away right now.

On top of this they sealed the front air intake completely. If you take the nose off you will be able to see there are several ways the air could escape without going through the radiators....

The fans are VERY noisy (you can hear them over the Accufab at idle with windows up) and they do move a huge quantity of air (which can be annoying if you are planning on doing the occasional track day).

David is back next week and I will either get the details from him or will have him chip in directly.

Having said all this, if I was to build a race car off the FGT I would buy the Roush-Yates 5.0 Cammer engine and be done with it....

http://www.roushyatesparts.com/parts-p/m-6007-mrgt.htm

" 5.0L Cammer built by Roush-Yates Engines. This special race engine "only" makes 550HP@7200RPM. Built to compete in FIA GT3 Spec engine for Matech Concepts' Ford GT and Requires Bosch engine control system "


I thought that was funny when I read the ad, not exactly hyping themselves up are they?

 

[Heffner Performance]

I think you misread that, Soroush. It says special race only engine.

 

[dbk]

:lol