Fubar's GT Build

[Fubar]

One last thing; Cooper head gaskets? Did you mean Cometic MLS gaskets?

Copper, not cooper.

 

[Lorenzo]

This post reminds me of when my motor was apart, i know how you feel.
Wish i was closer so i could come over and see it during the process.
Best of luck on your quest Mark, I cant wait to see the results.

 

[Fubar]

Well good luck. That's a hell of a project. I'll forward this to the homies at Ford. They'll be happy with it.

That's cool. I'm glad they still like to follow the street development of these cars. Just to clarify, I know that a SC can't match the power output of a turbo and all other things being equal, this car would be 1500+whp car with a set of hair dryers. I do feel that I can hang with conservatively built turbos now (so that statement is kinda true). However, I am keeping the SC because:
1) I am not skilled enough to control a turbo car on a track
2) I think the SC is old school badass... old school badass-ness being the main reason I opted for a Ford GT in the first place
3) the build is radically different than most fast cars and technically challenging (i.e.: fun to talk about with other car guys)

Tell 'em they built a hell of a car and any short coming I might mention are dwarfed by the overall wicked coolness they brought to life!

Okay, take that to them.

Cheers

 

[B.M.F.]

Well, I’m going to bypass the intake manifold. In doing so I will create new ports at that location. I will just design the new ports to have an appropriate strategy for catching any bubbles. The reason big manufacturers run coolant thru the intake manifold is to help with atomization of the fuel. This is only an issue when ambient air is COLD and with a supercharger, cold ambient air isn’t really that much of a factor. As you know, the cooler you can get the intake charge the more power you will make so I am doing a few things to keep heat out of this section. If the intercooler can do it’s job, then the whole intake should be cool to the touch at almost all times.

Where the coolant bleed spots are in the intake on the GT are still the highest spot on the motor, besides the 90 degree hoses that go to thermostat housing. You must be going to do an aluminum 90 (LIKE GT500) and put a fitting on top of that to get it higher than how the hoses adapt to intake? The only thing I don't like is the fact that they did not do a x over at the back of the motor like they do on the GT500's. The reason they have it like that on the Gt500's is because that rear x-over feeds the heater core. The 03-04 cobra mustangs had problems with cylinder 7 and 8 gettin hot's so there were a few companies that made kits to knock the freeze plug out at the the back of the head on the drivers side and bypass coolant out of there to get rid of the air pockets. The Ford GT's and the GT500's do NOT have the same problem as the 03-4 cobras did. I think it is a good idea though to add the bleaders to freeze plugs by the back intake ports and I am suprised ford did not do it on the GT. (Again none have burned up from this as with 550up hp on the cobras and it was a problem) I am doing bleeders in both of the back freeze plugs on both of the builds im doing, I will return the water in to the coolant fill tank. Will I gain anything from it idk?

Also are you doing a phenolic spacer under the blower? I feel no matter what the intake is always going to be as hot as the engine temp. The blower actually gets hotter than the motor (300+ DEGREE air coming out of blower) and when the air bounces off the innercooler (also the inner cooler is a restriction of boost as hot air compress's to cold threw core) the restricted hot air before the innercooler will heat soak the intake as the air its being forced threw the I/c. There is no way to fix this xcept for cooling the air before it hits the I/C

With my centrifical blower we seen a 10psi drop of boost threw the core to make 33lbs of boost after the I/C....Also the air before it was about 350-400 degrees.

Typical with a centrifical blower its 10-14 degrees of inlet temp per pound of boost (depending on effiency of blower). Its more with a twin screw but idk how much more. If you think about it, most of the Gt's with whipples around 20lbs of boost have seen 180 degree inlet temps in the mile. That is after the I/c that is hot for the low amount of boost, They heat up way faster than a centrifcal when being worked. All Fast twin screw cars have injectors before the rotors to cool down the inlet temps during the boost process. You can't even put a whipple 5.0 on a car with out injectors before the rotors or it will lock up.

Also whipple is coming out with a new 4.5 blower for the gt500's. I'm sure a kit could be made to work on the FGT. It will be interesting to see how much power they make on the gt500's....

Nice builld Mark can't wait to c how it turn's out

 

[Fubar]

Where the coolant bleed spots are in the intake on the GT are still the highest spot on the motor, besides the 90 degree hoses that go to thermostat housing. You must be going to do an aluminum 90 (LIKE GT500) and put a fitting on top of that to get it higher than how the hoses adapt to intake? The only thing I don't like is the fact that they did not do a x over at the back of the motor like they do on the GT500's. The reason they have it like that on the Gt500's is because that rear x-over feeds the heater core. The 03-04 cobra mustangs had problems with cylinder 7 and 8 gettin hot's so there were a few companies that made kits to knock the freeze plug out at the the back of the head on the drivers side and bypass coolant out of there to get rid of the air pockets. The Ford GT's and the GT500's do NOT have the same problem as the 03-4 cobras did. I think it is a good idea though to add the bleaders to freeze plugs by the back intake ports and I am suprised ford did not do it on the GT. (Again none have burned up from this as with 550up hp on the cobras and it was a problem) I am doing bleeders in both of the back freeze plugs on both of the builds im doing, I will return the water in to the coolant fill tank. Will I gain anything from it idk?

Glad to see that you agree that this needs to be addressed too. I was wondering why nobody has mentioned this before. It seems like a relatively inexpensive solution. I don't think it will add any power but if it helps even out the heat in the motor then it will be worth the effort. I am wondering if any of these cars see heat buildup issues at the track because air would tend to float past the bleeder and collect in larger and larger pockets throughout the motor. I was thinking about adding a full exit hose at the back but a small bleeder would probably have the same end effect.

Also are you doing a phenolic spacer under the blower? I feel no matter what the intake is always going to be as hot as the engine temp. The blower actually gets hotter than the motor (300+ DEGREE air coming out of blower) and when the air bounces off the innercooler (also the inner cooler is a restriction of boost as hot air compress's to cold threw core) the restricted hot air before the innercooler will heat soak the intake as the air its being forced threw the I/c. There is no way to fix this xcept for cooling the air before it hits the I/C

I wasn't planing on it. My thoughts were that the IC could adequately remove the heat from air compression under normal driving and for short bursts. I am going to increase the size of the intercooler tank for longer pulls (like the mile). These phenolic spacers will basically keep engine heat from getting into the IC during normal driving. Then when it goes in to boost the IC will hopefully last a little longer. It may be a waste of time but I hope not.

Nice builld Mark can't wait to c how it turn's out

Thanks for input. Your thoughts on any of these ideas are greatly appreciated. More information is always a good thing.

 

[Fubar]

Bringing up the rear exit ports on the engine block again, after a lengthy conversation with John (at Accufab) about many of these ideas. He agrees that there is some advantage to be gained here but that opening the ports up beyond a −4 or −6 would lend itself to create hot spots mid-engine. We will probable use the same strategy that Ford used on the GT500 with the heater coil there. I know this is minor but hopefully, if I do all the minor things I can to improve cooling it will add up. I know that I will be adding a lot of heat to the motor with this extra power so I have to do whatever I can.

The compression, cams, boost and porting will add power at all points along the power band (unlike a turbo build) so I should be able to use a much lower RPM target on road course events. As you know RPMs are the key ingredient to getting this motor to hot. If I can just get my brain around shifting earlier, I should be able to keep the engine just as cool as a stock motor. Then on mile runs or street pulls, there is plenty of cool down time after short bursts.

BIG POWER baby!! BIG POWER!!!

 

[B.M.F.]

Bringing up the rear exit ports on the engine block again, after a lengthy conversation with John (at Accufab) about many of these ideas. He agrees that there is some advantage to be gained here but that opening the ports up beyond a −4 or −6 would lend itself to create hot spots mid-engine. We will probable use the same strategy that Ford used on the GT500 with the heater coil there. I know this is minor but hopefully, if I do all the minor things I can to improve cooling it will add up. I know that I will be adding a lot of heat to the motor with this extra power so I have to do whatever I can.

The compression, cams, boost and porting will add power at all points along the power band (unlike a turbo build) so I should be able to use a much lower RPM target on road course events. As you know RPMs are the key ingredient to getting this motor to hot. If I can just get my brain around shifting earlier, I should be able to keep the engine just as cool as a stock motor. Then on mile runs or street pulls, there is plenty of cool down time after short bursts.

BIG POWER baby!! BIG POWER!!!

I'm doing -4's on my two builds.

 

[Indy GT]

Very interesting Mark!
Good luck with the build.

 

[ChipBeck]

Mark,

Good luck with this. I thought your Fuel System Thread was one of the best this Forum has ever had. So I'm going to encourage you to post lots of photos and info along the way as I think this thread could be even better. You and Soroush are normally blazing new trails and we all enjoy following your progress. Cheers.

Chip

 

[911teo]

Wicked project!

I will be following with great interest!

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Ed Sims]

I love it! A GT project other than my car! Keep it coming!

Ed

PS I like the hand model photos - you been looking at too many Shadowman posts!

 

[Fubar]

Whipple says there is no way their 4.0L can push enough air to make 1000 whp... soooooo


I think that might have more awesomeness in it than Mullets TT/SC setup (I can hear his butt puckering up now).

 

[Indy GT]

Oldschool, and BadAss Mark!
Looking forward to reading your posting of the results of this rebuild effort.

 

[Empty Pockets]

That twin S/C setup is just sick! :banana

 

[Fast Freddy]

Whipple says there is no way their 4.0L can push enough air to make 1000 whp... soooooo
View attachment 23099

I think that might have more awesomeness in it than Mullets TT/SC setup (I can hear his butt puckering up now).

thanks for the info. looks like if i get a cobra jet with 4.0L whipple i will be adding a 200 shot of nitrous to it....

 

[2112]

Whipple says there is no way their 4.0L can push enough air to make 1000 whp... soooooo
View attachment 23099

I think that might have more awesomeness in it than Mullets TT/SC setup (I can hear his butt puckering up now).

That is a Big Block Marine SC. Is it a direct fit to the FGT Manifold or do you have to make an adapter.

Will you use separate air boxes for each side?

 

[Mullet]

Whipple says there is no way their 4.0L can push enough air to make 1000 whp... soooooo
View attachment 23099

I think that might have more awesomeness in it than Mullets TT/SC setup (I can hear his butt puckering up now).

pucker........

that would be bad ass on top of my turbos.

 

[SteveA]

I like a great project!

 

[NJF]

Very cool project!

 

[BlackICE]

Whipple says there is no way their 4.0L can push enough air to make 1000 whp... soooooo
View attachment 23099

I think that might have more awesomeness in it than Mullets TT/SC setup (I can hear his butt puckering up now).

Why two 4L when you could just use one of Whipple's 8.3L blowers. :lol

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1231