Ford Race Header/Exhaust

[AZGT]

Well, hate to step in here since I am afraid I'll get my ass bit :willy , but here goes.

My impression is that the horsepower gains were due to the decrease in temperatures, not the flow of the exhaust. If the Ida (and therefore I guess the Accufab also since it is also small) system drop underhood temperatures, wouldn't that produce the increase unrelated to intake air temperature?

Hate to be contrarian, but I am more interested in the heat / temperature drop than the horsepower arguments. I'm in Phoenix where the heat (well, it's a dry heat :biggrin - except now for MONSOON season) is the bigger factor. When it is 110 to 120 outside, decreasing the running temperature is a big concern.

Hey Accufab / Ida - need an Arizona test platform like te BIG guys? (Many of the auto makers test there cars here - if they can survive Arizona with the heat, monsoons, and haboobs, they can survive anywhere)

 

[nota4re]

The Ida Automotive IAT was taken from real world driving on the street, not just on the dyno. So the HP gains with his system are the real thing, backed up by street driving and dyno follow up proof. If you choose not to believe this that’s fine.

TrackDay - I think we are in agreement that the FRPP exhaust is LOUD - perhaps too loud for most individuals. However, it does not drone, it idles quietly, and it can be driven somewhat quietly.

Regarding the Ida and IAT's, it's not just conjecture on my part. Let's compare my FRPP to the Ida. The Ida still uses the stock heavy, cast iron exhaust manifolds. The FRPP uses lightweight headers. The Ida uses (in most cases) the stock cats while the FRPP completely eliminates them. The Ida has the double-hump and then exit loops while the FRPP goes right from the header to the exhaust tips (through two small collector "mufflers").

Given this comparison, I hope you would agree that the FRPP has the ability to have superior engine-bay cooling characteristics over the Ida.... for the same reasons that the Ida is better than stock. Toss in that I live in SoCal and am driving in temperatures North of 100 degrees ambient. Compared to stock, I still see the same variations in water temperatures. If I'm bottled up in traffic, the temp will go to the 220 range - just like stock. It seems that the temps *may* drop quicker when traffic gets moving - but the difference in drop rate is hardly scientific. Under non-stop & go driving conditions in very warm weather, I would submit that stock to Ida to FRPP IAT's are largely similar. I'm OK to be wrong, but there just no *proof* that I am either right or wrong. That's the point.

 

[barondw]

Getting back to the original topic -I heard a members car with the Ford racing exhaust. It is so loud that I don't see how you can drive it on the street without attracting attention particularly from those in blue with light bars on their cars.

Under WOT I would agree agree ear plugs are required but I also think they are required for normal driving.

Dave

 

[Accufab]

To my understanding, FRPP sells GT tubular headers AND the GT muffler system. You can have either one seperately or both if desired. I think that most of the discussion regarding exhast here has related to the muffler (or cat back) part of the combination. I know that all of the muffler or X-Pipe systems that I am aware of will also bolt on to the FRPP tubular headers, though I could be mistaken.

Anyway, about the underhood temperature thing. Cutting the underhood temp is a good thing but it won't amount to much on the dyno. The engine gets it's air from outside of the car body, not under the hood. Eveyone knows that cooler INLET air is a plus, as it is denser. Driving at night after the sun goes down will theoretically give you additional HP but it is probably unmeasurable, despite it being 20, 30 or 40 degrees cooler. And then, if you have an overdrive or a different pulley on your supercharger, you are also increasing the temp to some extent because of the higher boost. The more that air is compressed, the hotter it becomes. Everything is relative and sometimes you just can't win, LOL, or, as the famous drag racer once said, "sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you."

 

[nota4re]

To my understanding, FRPP sells GT tubular headers AND the GT muffler system. You can have either one seperately or both if desired. I think that most of the discussion regarding exhast here has related to the muffler (or cat back) part of the combination. I know that all of the muffler or X-Pipe systems that I am aware of will also bolt on to the FRPP tubular headers, though I could be mistaken.

Ford Racing offers three components for the GT Exhaust. A muffler and two different header systems. Both header systems eliminate the cats and there is NO provision to add them back in. Ford's Long Tube Header system terminates in the same place and with the same flange as the original cats. Therefore, you can connect it up to either the stock muffler, Ford Racing's muffler (Borla), Ida, Accufab, or any other currently available "CAT-Back" system.

Ford's Rear Exit Headers have small collector mufflers and there is no provision to connect it to any available muffler - either stock or otherwise. All of these different options can be see here.

 

[ShankGT]

I had the FORD Racing exhaust installed (headers/nocats racing)

It surely is ear piercing. Coming from loud exhausts on other cars, I didn't mind the tuner saying "loud" but this is OBNOXIOUS and DRAGSTER LIKE loud.

I am going back to the stock exhaust until I find a better exhaust system. Anyone have suggestions?

Right now, I just have a pulley, and tune.

My car dyno'd stock at 454RWHP and 464RWTQ -

With pulley, tune, exhaust, it dyno'd 592RWHP and 575RWTQ - but for some reason it does not feel faster.

 

[californiacuda]

What size pulley? The Kenne Belle snout/pulley change will allow a 2.5 in pulley and a true 17 to 18 lbs of boost. With a proper tune, this pulley change should net in the low to mid 600 wheel horse power( and even more with higher octane fuel). When I put it on my car I noticed a considerable difference. If you make the swap you will also need the throttle inlet pipe support, the supercharger will pull so hard that the throttle inlet pipe will start collapsing.

With the SCT flash tunner the car could run an everyday tune and when you go to the track, use unleaded 100 octane fuel and flash in a different program and pick up another 50 whp.

I don't understand why somebody would go to the hastle of performance mods without focusing on the thing that will immediaty and positively proviide more power, BOOST.

The current easiest way to get more boost is to decrease the pulley size. Kenne Bell's kit allows for the smallest pulley 2.5 in and the most boost.

If you are thinking of moding your car ask the pulley size, it will net the most results

 

[Bart Carter]

...Seems Bob Ida’s GT exhaust has been patent pending since before it was released to the public. Makes sense since it was well tested, thought out and does the job.
Check out his web site
http://www.perfectpowerusa.citymax.com/page/page/3095644.htm...

How do you patent exhaust tubing and muffler inserts?

 

[Accufab]

californiacuda knows his stuff, but I'm feeling sorry for him right now. He is going from a Kenne-Bell supercharger overdrive with a smaller pulley, to NO pulley. Greg, just to let you know, the oil lines were installed friday and your twin turbo set-up should be howling very soon. Talking about mufflers, Greg's GT will have no mufflers of any kind. One of the neat features of dual turbochargers is that they muffle the sound very well withour having to rely on mufflers.

Think of Greg's GT as having two "rotational" mufflers, that will add about 200 HP per "muffler". Clearly, Greg is deranged. I have ridden with Greg on the freeway in his silver GT (Greg is the owner of the Motor Trend test GT) and I can tell you that I won't make that mistake again.

Back to this temperature thing again. Everything that we (or anyone) does to increase horsepower requires making the engine run hotter, inside the combustion chamber. Horsepower is heat. More horsepower is more heat. Let's face it, we want a bigger explosion inside the combustion chamber. That's why we add more air and more gasoline (usually called fuel). As you add more air, the computer recognizes this and adds a corresponding amount of additional gasoline. The engine runs on roughly one part of gasoline to around eleven parts of air. If you push more air into the combusiton chambers by changing the pulley or overdriving the blower, you will also get more gasoline (don't you just love computers?). When the spark plug goes off, BANG, a bigger explosion and more HP. Simple, isn't it? But, just like having a movie theater, you can't get new people in to see the next show unless you get the last crowd out. That's where the exhaust system comes in to play. A "better" exhaust system cuts down on back pressure, pure and simple. Temperature is not a factor in this case. You can't get a new charge of air and gasoline IN to the combustion chamber until you get the old exhaust OUT first. This process has only been going on since some of you (or me) were hopping up our flatheads in our '32 Ford roadsters.

For the record, I am probably the only one on this site that is NOT deranged. I do not own a GT and if I did, I would not spend thousands to go faster than the advertised 205 MPH. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. With the money that some of you are putting in to making more HP on these things, I could be in Hawaii right now for a couple of weeks, sipping on a drink with a tiny umbrella in it, LOL.

 

[GTx]

Another train of thought

Like alot of you I am pleased with the performance pf my GT but would like a louder growl. Instead of spending $2,700 on a new muffler why couldnt I take out the stock muffler and bring it to a welder and get the "guts" modified to make a little more noise? This should cost significantly less than $2,700

 

[EasyEric]

GTx,

That would definately get you the "noise" you are looking for at a low cost. There should also be some weight savings.

However, the relatively large muffler will still impede cooling air exit from the rear of the car.

Eric

 

[Bart Carter]

Like alot of you I am pleased with the performance pf my GT but would like a louder growl. Instead of spending $2,700 on a new muffler why couldnt I take out the stock muffler and bring it to a welder and get the "guts" modified to make a little more noise? This should cost significantly less than $2,700

This is done on motorcycle exhausts all the time. They drill out or modify the baffles. Motorcycle baffles are easy to remove and modify, our mufflers are not.

It will definitely be louder. The downside is that you have no control on the "quality" of sound. It may sound "tinny", "raspy", or ? It may also produce a "drone" at certain engine speeds thay you may not like. You are taking a chance. Motorcycle baffles are sometimes tuned for sound by placing screws that can be removed or added to change the sound. Again, we cannot do this with our mufflers.

 

[Accufab]

All this talk about an "annoying drone" reminds me of my ex-wife. Let me tell you that I was able to finally rid myself of that sound, but it was very costly.

 

[GTx]

I would prefer to puchase an aftermaket piece but $2,700 for a muffler..com'on someone is getting a bit greedy here. Does anyone have the schematic on the internals of the factory muffler? If I can get this done successfully I will share the information with thr group.

 

[EasyEric]

CTx,

The Accufab pipe is only $1,499, $1,200 less than the other muffler you are citing. Do you feel that it (the Accufab) wont meet your needs?

Eric

 

[GTx]

I wasnt aware of the cost I had only seen the one on Ford Racing. Do you have one of them on your vehicle?

 

[EasyEric]

GTx,

No, not yet. I am considering it though. Please see this thread for more info and pictures:

http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2143

Eric

 

[dgussin1]

All Ida Automotive figures are correct and very accurate!
He has the latest 4 wheel drive DynoJet. Data logged and analyzed huge volumes of information.
The stock system creates so much heat under the hood that RW HP is often just below 500 under real world conditions when driven slowly around town! It’s a fact.
If you want the real thing then take your car to Bob Ida’s shop.
His data is of real world conditions and his products produce real world results!
Visit his shop and he will be happy to show you the graphs and data in more detail but I can’t argue with him for not posting everything and showing the sheets in small format on his web site as other are already making copies of his products.

Do you know who you're talking to? lol

John Mihovitz is a modular motor god...without him who know's where we'd be today. This man has made over 1800 horsepower from a 4.6L mod motor.

 

[B O N Y]

Do you know who you're talking to? lol

John Mihovitz is a modular motor god...without him who know's where we'd be today. This man has made over 1800 horsepower from a 4.6L mod motor.

Question, is John Acufab or Ida?
Trying to keep the players straight. thanks.

 

[EasyEric]

BONY,

I believe John is Accufab.

Eric